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Interesting comments from football expert Keiran Maguire on CWR this morning at 21:32 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jrjph The future isn't that bright with or without the new stadium it would seem and relies on consistently unearthing star players to sell on

One of the things I do applaud is the release of the full accounts on the club website However one of the other things the release of the accounts, because of the clever accounting, has done is to confuse people further as to what is actually going on and why. Situation normal then :thinking about:

I would think it is something to do with Otium only starting to trade August 2013. The difference I would guess is a transaction that took place in CCFC H (which held the registrations until transferred to Otium) during the period between 01/06 and 30/07 The figures will not immediately...

90% of Otium liabilities gone? 2013 accounts showed liabilities at 5.2m 2014 sees the owners import 60.9m of debt that had absolutely nothing to do with the new trading company and that is converted in to preference shares. And at the end of 31/05/14 Otium has lost 9.3m on ordinary...

Given no large fees from player sales, no further finance from the owners, no new share issues, low crowds, poor merchandising I wonder what the reasonable projection of income is for next season? Will it still be top 6 ?

regarding the other incomes being not available at the Ricoh since 2005 this is what the Trust Q&A's found out in 2013 19: Does the club currently receive any of the following either in part or full, directly or indirectly, and include it in their turnover? Car parking ACL ...

But all this information that has been made public is out of date for both CCFC and wasps? The wasps position is not exposed because it is now a completely different set up with no detail of the current finances or even historical info to project the current finances? Looking at the CCFC...

Playing with words shmeee TF is saying that there is no external finance owing other than to the owners ARVO/SISU. He is trying to portray this as not normal debt and therefore because it is the owners it is ok to ignore it and say we owe no one else. We still owe the owners though and the...

no £39m in the hole as a group

so far we have still owed by SBS&l 39m ........ converted in to shares in otium 60.9m ....... CCFC H transferring debt to Otium 60.9m....... and the administration of CCFC ltd writing off 70m in irrecoverable amounts........ just how much real debt can one club generate? This is all perfectly...

I wouldn't think the FL had anything to do with it, certainly not how I read the strategic report when it discusses that. The external debt hasn't changed much. All this focus on the conversion of 60.9m is more smoke and mirrors and the CT article focussed its headline on the wrong thing in my...

total creditors are 41m (approx. 39m owed to ARVO/SISU investors including accrued interest) and the balance sheet net position is minus 39m

pretty much ...... you have to look at the whole Group not just part...... the external debt even be it the owners is huge for an entity with no real assets or security of tenure

Its in the post :laugh: ...... in simple terms the interest was paid/settled but not in cash

With the comments from TF about co investors and the "tidying up"/restructuring done in the accounts my gut feeling was that there will be a placed change in ownership structure in the next year or so but the preference shares issued makes any change to include a new party harder. Could be wrong...

Bottom line is the "debt write off" is nothing of the sort. They have converted old debt of CCFC H in to shares in Otium. Had they wanted to write off the "liability" they would not have transferred it from CCFC H to Otium in the first place and would have let it die with CCFC H. This is an...

Wouldn't disagree with that. However the same debt in the 2012 accounts was classified as over 12 months. They changed the classification in 2013 accounts. If the intention is to be long term owners and no intention to withdraw capital then I would like to understand the thinking as to why now...

The share is held by Otium. It is held in trust and belongs to the FL. There is no cost and therefore no value in the accounts. Doesnt mean it doesnt have a "value" to the club but its very intangible in that it is a right to trade/play in the FL nothing more Players are valued at purchase cost...

Please keep in mind that - these are the only accounts that give the whole figures for the clubs operation between 01/06/13 and 31/05/14 - The group accounts give the details of all external debt and exclude any transactions between group companies - the only trading part of the group was CCFC...

Just a question Simon. Does the external debt including to the joint owners still exist in the SBS&L group or not?