Do you want to discuss boring politics? (14 Viewers)

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PVA

Well-Known Member
Spend years wilfully and gladly making life harder and worse for many people ✅

Plea for sympathy from those same people when you get booted out ✅

Make your flagship policy one that damages business and the economy ✅

Complain that those businesses don't want to give you a job ✅

Steve Baker finding out that actions have consequences.

www.politico.eu

Britain’s defeated Tory MPs struggle to adjust to civilian life

Support for fallen politicians is patchy and inconsistent, which could deter would-be legislators from entering the political arena.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Spend years wilfully and gladly making life harder and worse for many people ✅

Plea for sympathy from those same people when you get booted out ✅

Make your flagship policy one that damages business and the economy ✅

Complain that those businesses don't want to give you a job ✅

Steve Baker finding out that actions have consequences.

www.politico.eu

Britain’s defeated Tory MPs struggle to adjust to civilian life

Support for fallen politicians is patchy and inconsistent, which could deter would-be legislators from entering the political arena.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
Click to expand...

Should be out making the most of his Brexit benefits. Maybe he can sell himself to India.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
Have you heard of this concept?

The statement "if it is what it perceived its what happened" suggests that our individual experience of reality is shaped by our perception, not necessarily by objective truth. It highlights that what we believe to have happened, based on our senses and interpretation, becomes our reality.

There are a number of you who are trying to make an argument in a way you consider neutral, factual and blame free speech - but are failing. At least two of us are opposing what we perceive you are saying and therefore aren’t actually being neutral, we are being possibly over assertive in our own defence because what we perceive you are accusing us of is untrue and, frankly, Insulting. As this untruth is now our reality, you will be unlikely to convince us otherwise.

Grendel may not agree with me, ultimately I can only speak for myself
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And that's the problem. It seems what you perceive people are saying isn't what they are actually saying.

As far as I can see no-one is blaming people like yourself. They are complaining about how people like yourself seem to completely dismiss that people now have massive difficulties, especially regarding housing, and blame it all on their 'wasteful' lifestyles. There's many, many reasons why the situation nowadays is very, very different.

No-one is saying you didn't have it hard and worked hard to get what you've got. But you're assuming that anyone nowadays is capable of the same route as you so if you did it so can they so it's their own fault.

Grendel I can understand as he doesn't seem to get empathy - unless it's affecting someone personally then he seems to think they don't have the right to complain or make an issue of it.
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Spend years wilfully and gladly making life harder and worse for many people ✅

Plea for sympathy from those same people when you get booted out ✅

Make your flagship policy one that damages business and the economy ✅

Complain that those businesses don't want to give you a job ✅

Steve Baker finding out that actions have consequences.

www.politico.eu

Britain’s defeated Tory MPs struggle to adjust to civilian life

Support for fallen politicians is patchy and inconsistent, which could deter would-be legislators from entering the political arena.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
Click to expand...
As will Starmer, Reeves, Rayner, Miliband
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
And that's the problem. It seems what you perceive people are saying isn't what they are actually saying.

As far as I can see no-one is blaming people like yourself. They are complaining about how people like yourself seem to completely dismiss that people now have massive difficulties, especially regarding housing, and blame it all on their 'wasteful' lifestyles. There's many, many reasons why the situation nowadays is very, very different.

No-one is saying you didn't have it hard and worked hard to get what you've got. But you're assuming that anyone nowadays is capable of the same route as you so if you did it so can they so it's their own fault.

Grendel I can understand as he doesn't seem to get empathy - unless it's affecting someone personally then he seems to think they don't have the right to complain or make an issue of it.
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Maybe it's the way it's being said. Perhaps if you had been clear and explicit about reasons for these many issues from the offset we may not have gone down the perception route. So, why not have a go at doing that now. Generally when I ask a question about this I get no reply, which doesn't fill me with confidence that I am not fundamentally being blamed for your ills. If I had that much influence on the world, I would probably own CCFC and the CBS Arena by now.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
Maybe it's the way it's being said. Perhaps if you had been clear and explicit about reasons for these many issues from the offset we may not have gone down the perception route. So, why not have a go at doing that now. Generally when I ask a question about this I get no reply, which doesn't fill me with confidence that I am not fundamentally being blamed for your ills. If I had that much influence on the world, I would probably own CCFC and the CBS Arena by now.
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Absolutely no one is blaming you.

Even when they explicitly state they aren't blaming you, your response is to ask why they are blaming you. Like in the quoted post. It's bizarre
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
What’s Rayners big policy error or are we just angry she’s a working class woman?
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It will be failure to deliver, plus interfering with the Chancellor's tax plans. Class or sex has nothing to do with it.

A balanced government needs equitable mix of men and women, working class and middle class, ex union officials and ex business leaders. A fair representation of society in other words.

Not one which pings from left to right and back again as tended to happen.
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Absolutely no one is blaming you.

Even when they explicitly state they aren't blaming you, your response is to ask why they are blaming you. Like in the quoted post. It's bizarre
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That's the whole point of the concept of "exception is reality". I have seen people successfully mount HR cases against managers based entirely on that concept. It's not a minority trait displayed only by mad old men. You could just as easily be suffering from it - you wouldn't know it because it would have become your reality.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
It will be failure to deliver, plus interfering with the Chancellor's tax plans. Class or sex has nothing to do with it.

A balanced government needs equitable mix of men and women, working class and middle class, ex union officials and ex business leaders. A fair representation of society in other words.

Not one which pings from left to right and back again as tended to happen.
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Wait so you’re angry at Reeves for her cuts because she won’t raise taxes and angry at Rayner for opposing those cuts?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Laugh if somebody chinned him

The c**t is trying to make out that fare evasion is some contemporary moral crisis rather than the reason the gates are there in the first place
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It’s because it’s a thing in New York IIRC. These people are incapable of the basics of their actual job: finding British things to moan about.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
MalcSB said:
Maybe it's the way it's being said. Perhaps if you had been clear and explicit about reasons for these many issues from the offset we may not have gone down the perception route. So, why not have a go at doing that now. Generally when I ask a question about this I get no reply, which doesn't fill me with confidence that I am not fundamentally being blamed for your ills. If I had that much influence on the world, I would probably own CCFC and the CBS Arena by now.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm sure I've written about this numerous times but a (not comprehensive) list:
1. Council homes being sold off and not replaced with new stock.
2. HA's replacing council housing so not got quite the same focus.
3. Increase in the private BTL market, which both hoovers up properties and increases costs to renters making it nigh on impossible to get a deposit.
4. Increase in population, including due to immigration, making demand outstrip supply.
5. House builders building too slowly and focusing on homes unsuitable for first time buyers,
6. Increase in elderly people staying in their homes for longer so properties that would have gone on the market in the past are taking longer to do so.
7. More people living alone at a younger age when in previous years many would be cohabiting.
8. Decisions on giving mortgages now made by computer rather than a bank manager.
9. Far greater job insecurity and more lower skilled, poorly paid jobs with things like zero hours contracts or PT work which pretty much exclude you from a mortgage.
10. A number of financial crises that have seen a lot of wage stagnation over the past few decades, so wages have not kept up with house price inflation.
11. People working to an older age meaning chances for promotion and higher wages are more limited than before.

And none of that is placing 'blame' on anyone - it's merely pointing out some (but not all) of the factors that have led to it becoming harder for young people these days to get on the housing ladder.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
shmmeee said:
So which one?

Genuinely curious which Labour government you think has had a policy of using trade to tackle human rights abuses.
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I haven't said any Labour government had a policy of doing that, did I?

I wasn't the one gleefully claiming that Labour would suddenly turn left-wing once elected and then they were only getting the bad stuff out of the way first. Unsurprisingly, it turned out to be a load of crap.
 
MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well, I'm sure I've written about this numerous times but a (not comprehensive) list:
1. Council homes being sold off and not replaced with new stock.
2. HA's replacing council housing so not got quite the same focus.
3. Increase in the private BTL market, which both hoovers up properties and increases costs to renters making it nigh on impossible to get a deposit.
4. Increase in population, including due to immigration, making demand outstrip supply.
5. House builders building too slowly and focusing on homes unsuitable for first time buyers,
6. Increase in elderly people staying in their homes for longer so properties that would have gone on the market in the past are taking longer to do so.
7. More people living alone at a younger age when in previous years many would be cohabiting.
8. Decisions on giving mortgages now made by computer rather than a bank manager.
9. Far greater job insecurity and more lower skilled, poorly paid jobs with things like zero hours contracts or PT work which pretty much exclude you from a mortgage.
10. A number of financial crises that have seen a lot of wage stagnation over the past few decades, so wages have not kept inup with house price inflation.
11. People working to an older age meaning chances for promotion and higher wages are more limited than before.

And none of that is placing 'blame' on anyone - it's merely pointing out some (but not all) of the factors that have led to it becoming harder for young people these days to get on the housing ladder.
Click to expand...

Thank you for a list of multiple contributory reasons, most of which can be attributed to political decisions. Increasing state pension age will make number 11 inevitable, won’t it? I wonder how the impact of that limiting of pay compares to that of many younger people not having an interest in supervisory / first line management because the additional pay isn’t worth the additional hassle?
 
The Philosopher

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well, I'm sure I've written about this numerous times but a (not comprehensive) list:
1. Council homes being sold off and not replaced with new stock.
2. HA's replacing council housing so not got quite the same focus.
3. Increase in the private BTL market, which both hoovers up properties and increases costs to renters making it nigh on impossible to get a deposit.
4. Increase in population, including due to immigration, making demand outstrip supply.
5. House builders building too slowly and focusing on homes unsuitable for first time buyers,
6. Increase in elderly people staying in their homes for longer so properties that would have gone on the market in the past are taking longer to do so.
7. More people living alone at a younger age when in previous years many would be cohabiting.
8. Decisions on giving mortgages now made by computer rather than a bank manager.
9. Far greater job insecurity and more lower skilled, poorly paid jobs with things like zero hours contracts or PT work which pretty much exclude you from a mortgage.
10. A number of financial crises that have seen a lot of wage stagnation over the past few decades, so wages have not kept up with house price inflation.
11. People working to an older age meaning chances for promotion and higher wages are more limited than before.

And none of that is placing 'blame' on anyone - it's merely pointing out some (but not all) of the factors that have led to it becoming harder for young people these days to get on the housing ladder.
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A solution for the housing market is probably a government backed housing bank.

This will seriously annoy the UK big banks hence why it hasn’t been done.

Essentially, people borrow from the state (don’t fall into the trap that thinking the state is some detached institution, it’s the national collective, you and I, the fabric of nation) at an equivalent of bond rate plus an admin margin.

National housing loans. Default, die without issue or be convicted of mass murder or similar and the property reverts to state and adds to the “council housing stock”.

Half baked schemes like “help to buy” just inflated prices. In the US they had Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae which didn’t quite solve the problem but the basis of idea was there.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
The Philosopher said:
A solution for the housing market is probably a government backed housing bank.

This will seriously annoy the UK big banks hence why it hasn’t been done.

Essentially, people borrow from the state (don’t fall into the trap that thinking the state is some detached institution, it’s the national collective, you and I, the fabric of nation) at an equivalent of bond rate plus an admin margin.

National housing loans. Default, die without issue or be convicted of mass murder or similar and the property reverts to state and adds to the “council housing stock”.

Half baked schemes like “help to buy” just inflated prices. In the US they had Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae which didn’t quite solve the problem but the basis of idea was there.
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I disagree with you on most things, but that isn't the worse idea, though it would rely on defaults for councils to increase their stock.

I thought there could be a scheme whereby some of the rent paid is turned into equity (say a certain small % of rent paid p.a) up to say 25% value of the house. This then gives them some means to raise a deposit to become a homeowner and get them onto the property ladder, enabling them to leave the council property for others.

Of course, there needs to be sufficient housing stock (both council and private owned) for this to get started and of course not all council tenants would want to leave to own their own place.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I disagree with you on most things, but that isn't the worse idea, though it would rely on defaults for councils to increase their stock.

I thought there could be a scheme whereby some of the rent paid is turned into equity (say a certain small % of rent paid p.a) up to say 25% value of the house. This then gives them some means to raise a deposit to become a homeowner and get them onto the property ladder, enabling them to leave the council property for others.

Of course, there needs to be sufficient housing stock (both council and private owned) for this to get started and of course not all council tenants would want to leave to own their own place.
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I get this but also as someone who saved a deposit while privately renting kinda feel that the reduced rent gives you the chance to save. Raises the question of who social housing is for. I know a lot of people around Canley who made out like bandits from RTB, all seemed a bit of a lottery to randomly get stacks of cash off the state.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I get this but also as someone who saved a deposit while privately renting kinda feel that the reduced rent gives you the chance to save. Raises the question of who social housing is for. I know a lot of people around Canley who made out like bandits from RTB, all seemed a bit of a lottery to randomly get stacks of cash off the state.
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I was thinking the rent would become closer to normal rent, but you would have the knowledge you'd get some back. Effectively acting like a savings account.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I was thinking the rent would become closer to normal rent, but you would have the knowledge you'd get some back. Effectively acting like a savings account.
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In the long-term I'm not sure if this would be practicable, especially nowadays with the the shift from welfare state and all that goes with it?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
It just feels like something like the ISAs where the government matches your savings is a better proposition. Certainly while council housing is such a lottery. At least they are available to everyone if we want to reward saving for a house. But equally in a functioning housing market owning wouldn’t be so vital.
 
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