Do you want to discuss boring politics? (24 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

If you spoke to a human at HMRC would you really know if they were office based or wfh?

Great point
The call centres are all hybrid so some are in office some are at home

 

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[David O'Day]

There’s clearly a balance to be struck which is why most workplaces does a hybrid go 3:2. I don’t disagree with much of this and 5 office days a week for me wouldn’t be practical.

In relation to the civil service, the specific issue here is that the public sector productivity is declining. In fact, it’s still 4.6% below pandemic levels in the medium term (and remains below 1997 levels). Labour argued that public sector pay rises would boost lagging productivity and so far, this hasn’t done anything. That’s without considering we’ve added 600k workers to the public sector.

The ramifications of this is that the state is going to continually raising spending for the same output. Which begets tax raises that will fall predominantly on the private sector and workers in that sector.

So yeah, public sector worker productivity absolutely need to be scrutinised much more closer than in the private sector. That’s just a reality.

Why? If an unproductive private business becomes uncompetitive and fails… the cost doesn’t fall on us directly.

We can work from home 5 days a week if we want. It's great and the company benefits massively from happy staff, a wider pool of applicants and reduced costs.

 

[fatso]

Pleased its passed. suspect there will be a lot of scrutiny and suggestions from the Lords but its a step in the right direction.

Personally I think not having anything in there for dementia is a glaring omission. Every relative I speak to at my Dads care home says the same thing 'they wouldn't have wanted to end up like this'.

I think anyone who has been through dementia with a family member would struggle to give you any positives in keeping someone alive past a certain point. Sure a lot of people don't realise, as I didn't prior to experiencing it with my Dad, how much distress people with dementia are often in.

My Dad is into year 3. He can't hear, can't see, doesn't understand where he is, doesn't recognise any family members and is bed bound. His quality of life is below zero, you really reach a point where you start asking who this is benefiting.

100% agree, but it is at least a first step in the right direction.
No doubt far too late for the incredibly difficult incident you point out, but getting this first principal through the house of commons is a significant milestone.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

We can work from home 5 days a week if we want. It's great and the company benefits massively from happy staff, a wider pool of applicants and reduced costs.

As a whole, the public sector productivity isn’t recovering expected. It was more productive in 1997 than it is now.

I don’t think everyone being in the office would automatically fix that, but the figures in the public sector are particularly damning and something needs to change drastically.

The private sector productivity in this country isn’t particularly strong either. The UK is now the WFH capital of Europe (if not the developed economies).

 

[Ccfcisparks]

As a whole, the public sector productivity isn’t recovering expected. It was more productive in 1997 than it is now.

I don’t think everyone being in the office would automatically fix that, but the figures in the public sector are particularly damning and something needs to change drastically.

The private sector productivity in this country isn’t particularly strong either. The UK is now the WFH capital of Europe (if not the developed economies).

I reckon cheap outsourcing of labour has much more of an impact that wfh on the private sector

 

[shmmeee]

I reckon cheap outsourcing of labour has much more of an impact that wfh on the private sector

And you know pay freezes and funding cuts and the fact that measuring productivity in the public sector is a bit of a guessing game.

If Nvidia can manage to become the world’s most valuable company while 100% WFH anyone else blaming it is just exposing poor management skills TBH.

 

[mmttww]

Is productivity really relevant or helpful as a measure of success when you're talking about delivering public services? We've got waiting lists etc. for that.

Feels like talking about GDP as 'the' measure of how well the economy is doing. 'GDP is up by 0.3%!'. Cool, food still costs 20% more than two years ago.

 

[shmmeee]

Is productivity really relevant or helpful as a measure of success when you're talking about delivering public services? We've got waiting lists etc. for that.

Feels like talking about GDP as 'the' measure of how well the economy is doing. 'GDP is up by 0.3%!'. Cool, food still costs 20% more than two years ago.

It’s pretty meaningless in the public sector, and where it’s not it’s almost always down to lack of capital investment (IT in the NHS wasting everyone’s time for example).

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I reckon cheap outsourcing of labour has much more of an impact that wfh on the private sector

Low income skilled migration certainly wouldn’t have helped. We’re one of the least automated economies in the developed economies.

Ironically, Reeves’ employer NI raise has raised the costs of labour so businesses are accelerating the drive for automation (think more self-checkouts etc) as they cut hours.

This is all beside the point, the bigger issue here is the public sector productivity has gone down from 1997 levels. You think about all the tech innovation since then and anyone should be alarmed.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It’s pretty meaningless in the public sector, and where it’s not it’s almost always down to lack of capital investment (IT in the NHS wasting everyone’s time for example).

Let’s assume that’s true. The public sector was providing the same services in 1997 (healthcare, teaching, policing and so on) so explain how it’s not a bad thing that productivity has gone down?!

We’ve had a tech revolution so how productivity hasn’t gone up should worry anyone.

 

[Ian1779]

Let’s assume that’s true. The public sector was providing the same services in 1997 (healthcare, teaching, policing and so on) so explain how it’s not a bad thing that productivity has gone down?!

We’ve had a tech revolution so how productivity hasn’t gone up should worry anyone.

Tell me how productivity has gone down in education?

 

[chiefdave]

It’s pretty meaningless in the public sector, and where it’s not it’s almost always down to lack of capital investment (IT in the NHS wasting everyone’s time for example).

Read an article in the FT recently that said exactly that. Measuring public sector productivity is a largely meaningless exercise and comparing it to private sector, which isn’t calculated the same way is pointless.

Article suggested that after years of austerity to then turn round and question why the public sector isn’t ‘productive’ and then blame the workers is absolute insanity.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Read an article in the FT recently that said exactly that. Measuring public sector productivity is a largely meaningless exercise and comparing it to private sector, which isn’t calculated the same way is pointless.

Article suggested that after years of austerity to then turn round and question why the public sector isn’t ‘productive’ and then blame the workers is absolute insanity.

How is it meaningless? This is nonsensical point to make.

You’ve got record levels of funding and increasing headcount in the public sector whilst less services are being delivered.

You can blame ‘austerity’ as the boogey man but frankly, funding for the NHS and other areas still increased.

How anyone can look at public sector productivity being lower now than 1997 and being ok or saying ‘it’s meaningless’ is bewildering. Barely anyone had mobile phones or reliable internet back then.

 

[Ian1779]

You’ve got record levels of funding and increasing headcount in the public sector whilst less services are being delivered..

What does this actually mean?