Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (18 Viewers)

shmmeee said:

I think the main takeaway so far, other than the general incompetence of our government and them spending all their energy spinning rather than acting, has been to take the risk seriously. Successive U.K. governments have had warnings and not acted.

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Correct, and it wasn't the Conservatives in power for SARS & Swine Flu... was it? No can't have been.

Ring Of Steel said:

You mean like Madrid, New York, Seattle, Rome? Arrivals | Heathrow

But don't worry, I'm sure its just all "cargo"

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Ive not said anything about cargo. Just the ability for us to quarantine tens or hundreds of thousands of repatriated UK citizens (and all the pilots and flight attendants after each flight) therefore making quarantining nigh on impossible

CCFCSteve said:

Slightly different to quarantining every retuning flight though. Which is what I was responding to.

Even if you do take temperatures on individuals returning, if someone’s got it you’d have to quarantine whole flight, staff etc as you don’t know who’ve they been in contact with. Also it appears that there are potentially large quantities of asymptomatic or mild symptoms cases, in which case temperature taking will be irrelevant for those individuals

Probably the bigger, potentially more useful decision would’ve been surrounding stopping flights altogether from highly infected regions prior to our full outbreak/lockdown here

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The virus is slightly different. Australia was taking the same steps as Asian countries during SARS according to numerous Aussies I socialised with in Thailand and were astounded that the U.K. was not talking the same measures at least with traffic from Asia. A more serious strain of the virus requires more serious action and that’s what Australia has very simply done. I don’t think it’s asking too much of our government to follow known examples with a history of proving to work. The reality is it’s actually the least they should be doing. Yet...

skybluetony176 said:

The virus is slightly different. Australia was taking the same steps as Asian countries during SARS according to numerous Aussies I socialised with in Thailand and were astounded that the U.K. was not talking the same measures at least with traffic from Asia. A more serious strain of the virus requires more serious action and that’s what Australia has very simply done. I don’t think it’s asking too much of our government to follow known examples with a history of proving to work. The reality is it’s actually the least they should be doing. Yet...

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As I’ve said I was responding to the suggestion of now quarantining of all returning flights to the UK (not what could/should have been done in the past)

CCFCSteve said:

Ive not said anything about cargo. Just the ability for us to quarantine tens or hundreds of thousands of repatriated UK citizens, therefore making quarantining nigh on impossible

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No, but doing something would be good, as opposed to letting everyone walk through and head off, which is what is happening. We are so far out of kilter with what we know to be safe & sensible things to do its absolutely ridiculous.

You're a smart guy but the constant justification of our abject failure to follow even the most basic of common sense actions is weird.

My favourite bit on incompetence so far is the front line Government characters and supporting staff catching the virus and not following their own advice.

Of course, I would not wish this on anyone but there is something of the Danse Macabre in all this.

Trump and the Brazilian president are in a league of their own though.

ccfcricoh said:

I'm not sure how you can be so angry when its not even half time in this yet. You have no idea whether we have made the right or wrong decisions yet, its far too early to tell, nobody can be 100% sure. We got this disease at roughly the same time as those around us and as far as i can tell are not coping any worst than others. Could we have gone into lock down earlier, maybe, will Italy lock down earlier come back to be a bad idea, maybe... everyone has had to make decisions and to be honest its hardly a competition is it! Pretty sure they weren't sat on their arses thinking, we wont do anything today, only a few extra thousand will die...

Agree it shouldnt have been unknown territory but, if this had happened at any time in the last 30-40 years i doubt any government would have "coped" better.

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No matter who was ruling party it would still be the same Scientist & Medical scientist advising them!

Ring Of Steel said:

Correct, and it wasn't the Conservatives in power for SARS & Swine Flu... was it? No can't have been.

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The original pandemic report came out in 2007 so was a Labour govt first.

Warwickhunt said:

No matter who was ruling party it would still be the same Scientist & Medical scientist advising them!

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This is a very naive view of how government advisors work

Ring Of Steel said:

You mean like Madrid, New York, Seattle, Rome? Arrivals | Heathrow

But don't worry, I'm sure its just all "cargo"

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What do you think it is - tourists?

Ring Of Steel said:

No, but doing something would be good, as opposed to letting everyone walk through and head off, which is what is happening. We are so far out of kilter with what we know to be safe & sensible things to do its absolutely ridiculous.

You're a smart guy but the constant justification of our abject failure to follow even the most basic of common sense actions is weird.

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What are Dublin doing? What would you do?

Grendel said:

What do you think it is - tourists?

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Well, no queues at Madam Tussards or the Tower of London.

Ring Of Steel said:

No, but doing something would be good, as opposed to letting everyone walk through and head off, which is what is happening. We are so far out of kilter with what we know to be safe & sensible things to do its absolutely ridiculous.

You're a smart guy but the constant justification of our abject failure to follow even the most basic of common sense actions is weird.

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I’ll take being weird and smart in the same paragraph (not particular either though)

I’ve tried (and possibly failed) to explain why I don’t see there is much benefit of doing certain things now or why they would be almost impossible (quarantining every returning flight). I also commented that stopping flights from high risk areas would’ve been the more useful (but more difficult) decision

CCFCSteve said:

I’ll take being weird and smart in the same paragraph (not particular either though)

I’ve tried (and possibly failed) to explain why I don’t see there is much benefit of doing certain things now or why they would be almost impossible (quarantining every returning flight). I also commented that stopping flights from high risk areas would’ve been the more useful (but more difficult) decision

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ROS has gone full Skybluetony now - rational debate ceased some time ago

CCFCSteve said:

I’ll take being weird and smart in the same paragraph (not particular either though)

I’ve tried (and possibly failed) to explain why I don’t see there is much benefit of doing certain things now or why they would be almost impossible (quarantining every returning flight). I also commented that stopping flights from high risk areas would’ve been the more useful (but more difficult) decision

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Something that crossed my mind, pilots have to have X amount of flight time in in a given time period to maintain there rank and type of flights they are allowed to fly.

What happens if they can't do this due to cancellations?

shmmeee said:

This is a very naive view of how government advisors work

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Ministers are thick as short planks as far as i am concerned! They love to spout about whats being done but forget the small detail about who is doing the work to make it happen! Advisors advise and the Civil Service has to make it happen and Ministers stand there spouting off as if they know what the F^%$ they are talking about! too many single points of failure there for my liking

CCFCSteve said:

As I’ve said I was responding to the suggestion of now quarantining of all returning flights to the UK (not what could/should have been done in the past)

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The point I’m making is Australia learned from SARS as did other countries so when a more potent strain comes along they understand it needs a more potent response which is why they’ve upped their game. Our government is lacking behind what other countries were doing for SARS let alone stepping up to meet the demands of dealing with a far more dangerous strain. How in any way can that be acceptable?

Grendel said:

ROS has gone full Skybluetony now - rational debate ceased some time ago

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You’re obsessed with me. I bet if you had any real friends you’d bore them to tears talking about me.

Ring Of Steel said:

You can already see it in Italy. The uneducated on here hate this graph, but its the best piece of info out there to show things properly- look at Italy. If we want to see whether lockdown is working we have to look at new cases.

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About time!! What has been posted on here and the UK media about new positive cases here has been majorly misleading.

When does everyone optimistically see the Lockdown restrictions start to be lifted?? I reckon the first week of June so another 8 weeks

Grendel said:

What are Dublin doing? What would you do?

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"would you rather be in Italy?"

You couldn't even work out what the equivalent death rate in UK would be compared with USA population, which is just incredibly basic maths, you were full in favour of herd immunity, you have tried to make out the government are doing a sterling job every step of the way but you cannot say why, you can't read a simple graph, you asserted that the Russian military were on the streets of Italy and that some Chinese were magically able to infect people several hundreds of miles away, amongst other things. Its not gone terribly well. You demonstrably haven't really got a scooby what is going on and/or are being contrary to get someone to engage in strange abstract arguments which have no basis in fact, and are thus of little to no relevance. I would invite you to proceed with your bizarre journey of misinformation, falsehoods & nonsense and ask someone else some stupid and meaningless questions.

CCFCSteve said:

I’ll take being weird and smart in the same paragraph (not particular either though)

I’ve tried (and possibly failed) to explain why I don’t see there is much benefit of doing certain things now or why they would be almost impossible (quarantining every returning flight). I also commented that stopping flights from high risk areas would’ve been the more useful (but more difficult) decision

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Steve. You just have to look at the example of countries that are dealing with this best and compare it to our governments response. There’s a huge void, you must understand that.

SkyBlueDom26 said:

When does everyone optimistically see the Lockdown restrictions start to be lifted?? I reckon the first week of June so another 8 weeks

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I think that some restrictions here by the end of April with people fully back at work in June.

clint van damme said:

Something that crossed my mind, pilots have to have X amount of flight time in in a given time period to maintain there rank and type of flights they are allowed to fly.

What happens if they can't do this due to cancellations?

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Now I would be weird or smart if I knew the answer to that mate

SkyBlueDom26 said:

When does everyone optimistically see the Lockdown restrictions start to be lifted?? I reckon the first week of June so another 8 weeks

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I doubt it will be before that unless we really step up our game with testing. Unless we replicate SK for testing it could be longer.

Philosorapter said:

Trump and the Brazilian president are in a league of their own though.

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But they don't know anything about sport!

When she questions the government's actions, you know they are really fucking up.

Lack of testing becomes political problem

Ring Of Steel said:

When she questions the government's actions, you know they are really fucking up.

Lack of testing becomes political problem

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How people can actually defend them is beyond me.

Ring Of Steel said:

"would you rather be in Italy?"

You couldn't even work out what the equivalent death rate in UK would be compared with USA population, which is just incredibly basic maths, you were full in favour of herd immunity, you have tried to make out the government are doing a sterling job every step of the way but you cannot say why, you can't read a simple graph, you asserted that the Russian military were on the streets of Italy and that some Chinese were magically able to infect people several hundreds of miles away, amongst other things. Its not gone terribly well. You demonstrably haven't really got a scooby what is going on and/or are being contrary to get someone to engage in strange abstract arguments which have no basis in fact, and are thus of little to no relevance. I would invite you to proceed with your bizarre journey of misinformation, falsehoods & nonsense and ask someone else some stupid and meaningless questions.

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oh dear deflector screens on full alert and Tony is liking it

I’ve asked you to provide evidence of the claim that the furlough scheme is a con and gov uk are actually telling people to lay workers off - evidence? People on here are relying on this and now may be distressed reading your post so this link of concrete evidence needs supplying immediately.

You today have obsessed about flights and when articles show it’s mostly cargo and repatriation you deny and put cargo in inverted commas. Can you tell me who is on these flights then please?

I’ve asked you to provide evidence of what the country you reside in - which DOES have flights going to does differently. Can you tell me please?

You have frequently said per capita of population is irrelevant so you can’t have put the US and UK differential just on that surely? You’ve said out health service and lack of ventilators and lack of early lockdown will have a catastrophic impact against other countries haven’t you? Given the US are well behind us in these areas the same applies against us doesn’t it? So a factor of 2 against population at least seems reasonable - can you tell me how you calculate this clear differential between the two countries

Thanks

skybluetony176 said:

Steve. You just have to look at the example of countries that are dealing with this best and compare it to our governments response. There’s a huge void, you must understand that.

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I do. Just that the timings and therefore benefits are different (we’ve missed the boat with a couple of the more beneficial steps/actions)

Sick Boy said:

How people can actually defend them is beyond me.

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Its getting to the point where even they actually can't, thats why its becoming all about "timings", deflect as much as possible by talking about how awful everywhere else is and just witter on about random nonsense. Anything to avoid addressing the facts at hand.

clint van damme said:

Something that crossed my mind, pilots have to have X amount of flight time in in a given time period to maintain there rank and type of flights they are allowed to fly.

What happens if they can't do this due to cancellations?

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It is, if not been done already, going to be suspended along with with things like the need for planes to fly to avoid losing landing slots. Not exactly environmentally friendly to have loads of empty planes flying around just to ensure they keep the slots but that's exactly what was starting to happen.

Can’t remember a time in my life I was this bloody bored

shmmeee said:

Reminds me. Spoke to a mate last night who’s little brother is a drug dealer and is carrying on as normal, lives with his mum who is high risk due to a lung condition. Boils my blood.

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Bet he's put the prices up as well!