Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (20 Viewers)

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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
The coventrian said:
Maybe maybe not. But the lads on the lines build at least 6 months in advance. The cars are all for customers. We've plenty of work unless everyone has cancelled there orders.
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But theyve also got to consider the other plants as well and what their situation. Hopefully they'll come out the other side of this in a strong position but I think there's chllenging times ahead for the car industry in general.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Without extensive testing how can they be sure it is slowing down? As I said, if you have the symptoms here you will be tested if you want to be.
The lockdown here has been far stricter than the one there.
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Extensive testing isn’t really evidence of a slow down. We are doing 10,000 a day I think now but the test is only a blip in time. It also apparently is not always accurate and cannot pick up all those with the infection
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
If your mortgage is based on your salary it won’t help really. Also I don’t see how it works for a huge company unless it’s people on minimum wage. How would you decide who to put on it? Traditionally companies like these offer big redundancy packages to trim staff. The real issue is the level of spend on investment will be dwarfing salaries. JLR even in good times has awful cash flow and they won’t just be able to switch on again when this stops. Many manufacturing businesses big and small will be in the same boat - industry will just collapse
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If you've been on well over £50k surely you'll have plenty already? They based the grant on the median income so although industries that pay massive salaries for people to sit behind desks might not benefit as much it will still help large numbers elsewhere. Some money is still better than none and it is still less money for the company to pay out.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If you've been on well over £50k surely you'll have plenty already? They based the grant on the median income so although industries that pay massive salaries for people to sit behind desks might not benefit as much it will still help large numbers elsewhere. Some money is still better than none and it is still less money for the company to pay out.
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Of course they won’t have plenty - it’s not a huge salary and people will take loans and lifestyles suited to an income not half of it - also for workers it would breach union agreements
 
T

The coventrian

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
But theyve also got to consider the other plants as well and what their situation. Hopefully they'll come out the other side of this in a strong position but I think there's chllenging times ahead for the car industry in general.
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They'll be some redundancies for sure. Hopefully voluntary. I'm not sure how much halewood produce and you can forget castle brom. They build hardly anything. Solihull is what keeps the company in business.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
The coventrian said:
You live a bubble Pete. If this drags on for months you cant see any social unrest kicking in? People will only stand so much. After all,as contagious as this its only a fraction of the population that its affecting. What happens if food shortages kick in? You cant see people looting etc?
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Just asking I’m interested in your opinion
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I have gone up £10k in two years but I still don't come close to taking home £2,500 a month
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If they’re paying every single employee in the top 15% of wages nationally, I’m not surprised they keep going bust TBH. But they’re not, I turned down JLR after my Masters because they were offering around £10k/year less than similar employers.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The coventrian said:
We've had a pay freeze for 3 years now so you cant be that far behind. Tbh I'll go another year without one if it helps the company through this crap.
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Teachers have had a real terms pay freeze for 12 years. My take home pay is £1850 a month and the higher up the scale I go the more I have to pay towards student loan so it has less of an effect.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
The coventrian said:
They'll be some redundancies for sure. Hopefully voluntary. I'm not sure how much halewood produce and you can forget castle brom. They build hardly anything. Solihull is what keeps the company in business.
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It could certainly mean drastic action - saving a few pounds in wages will help them harder at all - the government help just doesn’t cut it for companies like JLR - they will carry on profiting anyway - this shutdown was largely planned anyway other than an extra week wasn’t it?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
If they’re paying every single employee in the top 15% of wages nationally, I’m not surprised they keep going bust TBH. But they’re not, I turned down JLR after my Masters because they were offering around £10k/year less than similar employers.
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What I'm on now was the entry level salary for the industry I wanted to work in when I graduated. But there were no jobs going as the industry was fleeing the UK at the time and still recovering from 2008, so I had to go into academia and then teaching. Now there's people turning their noses up at an income that's still £700 a month more than mine
 
T

The coventrian

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I have gone up £10k in two years but I still don't come close to taking home £2,500 a month
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After tax,na pension etc I dont either. Over the last 5 years we've had to pay 5% extra into our pension pot as the company are too tight to pay it. Add in the fact we've no annual pay rise for 3 years I'd say I'm down about £70- a week.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
If they’re paying every single employee in the top 15% of wages nationally, I’m not surprised they keep going bust TBH. But they’re not, I turned down JLR after my Masters because they were offering around £10k/year less than similar employers.
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I had a 28 year old analyst who care from retail and was on £40k plus bonuses a d 11% pension contributions - track workers must id guess be on £30k
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Of course they won’t have plenty - it’s not a huge salary and people will take loans and lifestyles suited to an income not half of it - also for workers it would breach union agreements
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There's a pandemic disease going on we have all got to think more flexibly
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Without extensive testing how can they be sure it is slowing down? As I said, if you have the symptoms here you will be tested if you want to be.
The lockdown here has been far stricter than the one there.
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Yeah, agree, it’s all educated (partially informed) guess work at the moment regarding numbers. I’m not sure them (Ferguson etc) commenting every other day is sensible as I’d imagine the actuals could still fluctuate dramatically
 
T

The coventrian

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
It could certainly mean drastic action - saving a few pounds in wages will help them harder at all - the government help just doesn’t cut it for companies like JLR - they will carry on profiting anyway - this shutdown was largely planned anyway other than an extra week wasn’t it?
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Yes it was for those on the lines. Parts shortages and meeting the end of year targets earlier was apparently the reason. Sales had dropped as well. As you probably know we dont build to stockpile in fields anymore. Sales will drop this year anyway on the range rover and sport as the new models come out next year.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If the company is already on its knees then it wouldn't have long to go anyway. But even companies in decent shape may still need the help. Find it odd that I'm defending a Tory measure and you're scrutinising it
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Your missing the point. It’s not that it’s not in decent shape (it isn’t now but that’s not the issue) the costs of these businesses are eye watering - I mean real eye watering - and all car companies operate such a tight model a few weeks of no revenue has catastrophic impacts - they sell to retailers do retailers having closed starved all revenue. Even when it was making large profits this would flip it. You can’t shut these places for long - the government would have to directly support with a lot more than 80% of wages of an average - it just makes zero difference and will cost more than keeping production going. Remember exports don’t arrive to retailers for 8 to 10 weeks in key markets
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
So you know for sure JLR aren't going to apply for the grant?
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I am no apologist for big business.

However I have to say that with a company hat on the government schemes are filled with risk. I know 100% that many legal advisors are recommending that companies lay off workers until such time as the govt clarifies the details more and/or guarantees that applicants will be reimbursed on the furlough scheme.

Its shit, and a travesty for workers, companies are doing it because they are worried that they'll make commitments then the govt will find ways to exclude claims from being approved. And their advisors are mostly echoing this, saying "better to be sure and have jobs for them to come back to, protect the company first".

Not my views, but thats the reality of what is happening.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Your missing the point. It’s not that it’s not in decent shape (it isn’t now but that’s not the issue) the costs of these businesses are eye watering - I mean real eye watering - and all car companies operate such a tight model a few weeks of no revenue has catastrophic impacts - they sell to retailers do retailers having closed starved all revenue. Even when it was making large profits this would flip it. You can’t shut these places for long - the government would have to directly support with a lot more than 80% of wages of an average - it just makes zero difference and will cost more than keeping production going. Remember exports don’t arrive to retailers for 8 to 10 weeks in key markets
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I'm thinking more of the individuals G
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Spoke to my mother yesterday - she's a bookkeeper for several companies and self employed people. She said the paperwork for claiming some of the govt help may not be available until June 1st and then (even if HMRC are at full capacity) going to take a while to process everything.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
The coventrian said:
You live a bubble Pete. If this drags on for months you cant see any social unrest kicking in? People will only stand so much. After all,as contagious as this its only a fraction of the population that its affecting. What happens if food shortages kick in? You cant see people looting etc?
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I find myself in the novel position of agreeing with Coventrian.

We have all the ingredients for some very nasty things happening. If people can't afford food with all the other money slushing around then they will (very understandably) think "what the fuck", I'd probably be the same myself.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I'm thinking more of the individuals G
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The individuals I can’t comment on but probably would want to remain employed. Without revenue for a few months and they’ll be gone as will all suppliers to the company
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
Spoke to my mother yesterday - she's a bookkeeper for several companies and self employed people. She said the paperwork for claiming some of the govt help may not be available until June 1st and then (even if HMRC are at full capacity) going to take a while to process everything.
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Exactly right.

So if you employ 500 people, that might be a wage bill of something like £300k per week, thats £1.2m per month, £3.6m until June 30th (before schemes/ grants etc). Are you going to pay them all and wait for a grant, or protect the company by laying off? If you wait for the grant you are putting the future of the entire company at risk.

I'm going through this very situation as we speak. All the advice is saying "lay off and wait"
 
T

The coventrian

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
I find myself in the novel position of agreeing with Coventrian.

We have all the ingredients for some very nasty things happening. If people can't afford food with all the other money slushing around then they will (very understandably) think "what the fuck", I'd probably be the same myself.
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Well if it's a case of feeding the family or not people will do anything surely? I know I would.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Skyblueweeman said:
Good post and was about to post the BBC article myself as I've just read it. I just can't see why the Govt would turn down the chance to increase ventilator stock...it's non-sensical so there's got to be rational reasons for doing so (if true in the first place which I am sceptical about).

And another good thing that's come of all this is the resilience of firms to work together in times of need.
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Yes, why would the government do anything nonsensical? Its the rest of the planet that were wrong on herd immunity after all
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
If your mortgage is based on your salary it won’t help really. Also I don’t see how it works for a huge company unless it’s people on minimum wage. How would you decide who to put on it? Traditionally companies like these offer big redundancy packages to trim staff. The real issue is the level of spend on investment will be dwarfing salaries. JLR even in good times has awful cash flow and they won’t just be able to switch on again when this stops. Many manufacturing businesses big and small will be in the same boat - industry will just collapse
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You are right- cashflow is going to destroy several very good companies. And its not a case of level of income, you either can pay your mortgage or you can't. The ramifications of all this are enormous, I don't think anyone- even armed with all the facts, data & horror stories- still realise how much this is going to utterly wreck the economy. Zero income for 3 months means doom unless you have many millions stored away, not enough companies have.
 
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