Judicial review thread - day 2 (1 Viewer)

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S

Sky Blue Dal

Well-Known Member
Godiva said:
No it doesn't, but if public money is to be spent on commercial enterprises then an application procedure must be followed and granted by the EU commission.
Clearly that did not happen as it takes many months and would require a hearing of all parties - including sisu/ccfc.




SORRY... IGNORE THIS.. Realised my error of my way. Concentration relapse!! Removed it
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torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I find it odd that a venue that wants to compete against the NEC and other venues wants to get rid of car parking facilities. Seems a bit mad. I used to park in C too.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Has he got a bag big enough to hold a smoking gun? I'm waiting for the big reveal... :)
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I think the discussions about a smoking gun were a bit presumptive. Not having a lot of the disclosure evidence read in due to dropping arguments yesterday has taken a lot of potential fun and scandal away. Wonder if we'll ever get to see those? Civil action maybe? Meh.

This really is the dry end of the legal piss-up. You'll need to get down to the Crown Court for something juicy. Involved procedural intricacies on points of EU admin law really are as fun as they soundzzzzzzzz........

*falls off chair*
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
Sisu QC offered judge opportunity to break for lunch but denied! Worst news since the coat hanger story.

My stomach is about to get slapped with a contempt of court charge any minute now.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So basically you're saying that the only company that may have grounds to complain that the loan through CCC was state aid would be the YB, as they are the only private company involved that faced what could be described as unfair commercial advantage.

So why are sisu doing this?
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The case isn't about demonstrating that any one company lost out though, it's about showing a distortion of the market. The commercial loans market had been distorted by a state body using state funds (in theory).
 
AFCCOVENTRY

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC just summed up key points. Focus on councillors not being correctly informed by council officers ahead of 14.4m loan decision
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Got to say I'm flagging here. The court recorder pulled out a banana at the break earlier which shows that he knows his stuff. Roll on lunch...

sky blue john said:
I don't think there can be a draw on this one.
The loan either passed the EU test or it didn't !
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I'm more interested to know whether the banana passed the EU test or not to be quite honest.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
The case isn't about demonstrating that any one company lost out though, it's about showing a distortion of the market. The commercial loans market had been distorted by a state body using state funds (in theory).
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So why has the club been tagged onto the list of companies with arvo that are seeking the JR? As far as I know none of the companies that make up the club are not in the mortgage business. If anyone was going in with arvo surely it would be another company in the financial market? HSBC Lloyds TSB, Wonga etc.


OK, maybe not Wonga but they'd be more relevant to the basis of the JR than a football club.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
Sisu QC saying what he wants to say about legal references etc. to come.

Discussion on timings for rest of case.

Clive Eakin looks like he'd rather be watching an international tiddlywinks friendly than be here.
 
AFCCOVENTRY

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Got to say I'm flagging here. The court recorder pulled out a banana at the break earlier which shows that he knows his stuff. Roll on lunch...

There


I'm more interested to know whether the banana passed the EU test or not to be quite honest.
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There are strict rules on banana being imported into the UK. They have to have a decent bend in them.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So basically you're saying that the only company that may have grounds to complain that the loan through CCC was state aid would be the YB, as they are the only private company involved that faced what could be described as unfair commercial advantage.

So why are sisu doing this?
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Not that simple really.
First - everyone can complain about state aid - not restricted to those directly involved.
Secondly - sisu offered to buy out the loan, they are a financial unit so in direct competition with YB. They may claim public money was used to starve them off a profit.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
Sisu QC offered judge opportunity to break for lunch but denied! Worst news since the coat hanger story.

My stomach is about to get slapped with a contempt of court charge any minute now.
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Can you be thrown out, locked up, for intestinal rumbling? Dangerous times! It sounds like the Judge really has got it in for that particular QC, do you think he ran over his dog?

Time for a gratuitous Simpsons quote, I feel...

Hutz: No don't you worry Mrs. Simpson, I-Uh-oh. We've drawn Judge Snyder.
Marge: Is that bad?
Hutz: Well, he's had it in for me ever since I kinda ran over his dog.
Marge: You did?
Hutz: Well, replace the word “kinda” with the word “repeatedly,” and the word “dog” with “son.”
 
S

Sky Blue Dal

Well-Known Member
QUOTE: Case law is a bit technical but main point so far is Sisu QC says council should have informed EU but didn’t.


If this is the case then the CCC have totally messed up.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So why has the club been tagged onto the list of companies with arvo that are seeking the JR? As far as I know none of the companies that make up the club are not in the mortgage business. If anyone was going in with arvo surely it would be another company in the financial market? HSBC Lloyds TSB, Wonga etc.


OK, maybe not Wonga but they'd be more relevant to the basis of the JR than a football club.
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I don't know mate
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
sky blue john said:
I don't think there can be a draw on this one.
The loan either passed the EU test or it didn't !
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Yes, but if it did not pass and there was no remedy ( no corrections ) suggested by the judge - everything stays the same anyway, then I'd call that a draw.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Dal said:
QUOTE: Case law is a bit technical but main point so far is Sisu QC says council should have informed EU but didn’t.


If this is the case then the CCC have totally messed up.
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There is a deminimus (below threshold or block exemption) declaration for recipents to complete but not sure if the authority has to actively declare anything tbh.

Also not sure what the remedy for not telling the EU would be anyway.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I'd guess that the ruling's going to be the decision needs to be retaken and EU informed, if they're happy we're happy and we all move to Brussels for the second leg.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
There is a deminimus (below threshold or block exemption) declaration for recipents to complete but not sure if the authority has to actively declare anything tbh.

Also not sure what the remedy for not telling the EU would be anyway.
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FP, I'm impressed. You've been reading up. Stay warmed up, I reckon you'll be coming on for the hungry bloke at around sixty minutes, the judge has got his card marked. ;)

https://www.gov.uk/state-aid#de-minimis-aid-regulations
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Mary_Mungo_Midge

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
I find it odd that a venue that wants to compete against the NEC and other venues wants to get rid of car parking facilities. Seems a bit mad. I used to park in C too.
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Look at where it was though. Prime land. If it was a case of selling that for top-dollar, and reinvesting some of that raised in additional, better parking and netting a profit in so doing; that would make sense
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I'd guess that the ruling's going to be the decision needs to be retaken and EU informed, if they're happy we're happy and we all move to Brussels for the second leg.
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I don't think so - in case the use of public funds is found illegal state aid the judge will rule so. I believe he will tell the council to revoke the loan - probably giving a one month schedule to comply. Then CCC may appeal, but I think the sisu QC making a big fuss about individual councillors not being guided truthfully will create some political waves and intense discussions before any decision about appealing can happen. Oh and Chris West is probably going to take the blame.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I was trying to think "What would be the most annoying outcome possible?" as that tends to be what happens to City fans.
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The fallout of this sees SISU team up with Robinson, Richardson and McGinnity in a dream team consortium, money is raised beyond pies by Mutton and Lucas agreeing to take part in an infinite number of streaking contests? Marlon King appointed to improve club's profile among women, Byng given the brief of social media and technology officer?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Godiva said:
I don't think so - in case the use of public funds is found illegal state aid the judge will rule so. I believe he will tell the council to revoke the loan - probably giving a one month schedule to comply. Then CCC may appeal, but I think the sisu QC making a big fuss about individual councillors not being guided truthfully will create some political waves and intense discussions before any decision about appealing can happen. Oh and Chris West is probably going to take the blame.
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I thought the accepted wisdom was the judge couldn't declare what should happen, just that the decision needs to be retaken?

Edit: my OP wasn't serious BTW.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
The fallout of this sees SISU team up with Robinson, Richardson and McGinnity in a dream team consortium, money is raised beyond pies by Mutton and Lucas agreeing to take part in an infinite number of streaking contests? Marlon King appointed to improve club's profile among women, Byng given the brief of social media and technology officer?
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Brody, surely?

Edit: no, forgot about the email issue. You're right.
 
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