AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
Let's have a day 2 thread then...
Judicial review thread - day 2 (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter AFCCOVENTRY
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AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
Late kick off for day 2 in court.
The judge has more pressing issues to deal with! He has obviously had enough of Sisu's 'bluster'...
The judge has more pressing issues to deal with! He has obviously had enough of Sisu's 'bluster'...
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@BBCCovWarks: When we get underway SISU QC will complete his submission. Expected to cite EU directives on state aid. #sisuvccc
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@BBCCovWarks: Council and ACL's QC's expected to take until tomorrow pm to respond. #SISUvCCC
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Had a peek at Sisu's skeleton argument. Main thrust is terms of council/ACL loan were "wholly uncommercial" contrary to EU state aid law
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu look like they will ask the court to rule on damages too.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Ah; what a surprise. Can I guess what the proposed compromise would be?
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
Give us a share of Acl or give Ivus the stadium...
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
I guess Sisu's game plan here on taking ccc to court is the damages.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Court hears Sisu QC say Seppala told bank she would only be willing to pay £100,000 a season as it was the "going rate"
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
For the rent or the loan?
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
For the rent...
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
I guess the rent doesn't include match day costs?
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Joy Seppala (Sisu) in court again as is Marilyn KH (Higgs), Peter KH, Paul Harris (Higgs /ACL) and Chris West (council)
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu agreed deal for £400k rent (subject to conditions) via bank in 2012.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
400k sounds fair. 150k offered through admin this time last year sounds a bloody good deal to me.
Rob S
Well-Known Member
There's a few (6) spaces in court today. Passed Tim Fisher leaving the room as I came in with Dave (from KCIC) and Pat Abel. No sign of him since but I want to collar him to get his thoughts on how he thinks things are going.
Joy is sitting on the back row of the main courtroom (where all the legal teams are) next to Carter-Silk & Laura Deering.
Oo...TF just arrived and sitting in front of me with JS's father-in-law & Kieran Crowley (writes for the CCFC website).
Also on back row of main court area is Chris West (council finance director)
Away to the right is the press (Simon Gilbert, Keith Perry for CT; Clive Eakin for CWR. Alos with Christine Ford (council legal #2) and on the row behind them, Marilyn & Peter K-H and Paul Harris. Others behind a pillar.
Oooooo! Sisu QC has just conceded that ACL were trying to drive down the price of the debt and that they could service a £15m loan
Joy is sitting on the back row of the main courtroom (where all the legal teams are) next to Carter-Silk & Laura Deering.
Oo...TF just arrived and sitting in front of me with JS's father-in-law & Kieran Crowley (writes for the CCFC website).
Also on back row of main court area is Chris West (council finance director)
Away to the right is the press (Simon Gilbert, Keith Perry for CT; Clive Eakin for CWR. Alos with Christine Ford (council legal #2) and on the row behind them, Marilyn & Peter K-H and Paul Harris. Others behind a pillar.
Oooooo! Sisu QC has just conceded that ACL were trying to drive down the price of the debt and that they could service a £15m loan
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Going rate for a 32,000 seater stadium ?
I believe they are paying more than 100k for the palace known as sixfields !!
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Here’s a perversity; looking at Gilbert’s Tweet:
‘Had a peek at Sisu's skeleton argument. Main thrust isterms of council/ACL loan were "wholly uncommercial" contrary to EUstate aid law’
It’s the commercial terms of the loan – namely it’s magnitude that’s the ‘smoking gun’.
Looking at the CBRE valuation of August 2012, seemingly adopted by the council, ACL was valued at £19.6m, provided the club continued to pay £1.2m a year rent to ACL.
The loan in January 2013 of £14m is over £5m lower than the CBRE August valuation, which may reflect the landscape with regards the potential lower rental from the football club; but could easily have been swollen a touch too by incomes which, at the time and reflected in ACL’s resultant accounts which show turnover in non-footballing revenues increasing. Compromise figure?
One thing is for sure, looking back to comments from Justice Males last July; in which he stated: SISU "had caused rent to be withheld as a means of exerting pressure [on ACL] in their commercial negotiations".
How apt now, that the latest action seems centred on the lowering of ACL’s value to a level below that of the CBRE valuation, and loan made as a function of the behaviour Justice Males was so damning of
‘Had a peek at Sisu's skeleton argument. Main thrust isterms of council/ACL loan were "wholly uncommercial" contrary to EUstate aid law’
It’s the commercial terms of the loan – namely it’s magnitude that’s the ‘smoking gun’.
Looking at the CBRE valuation of August 2012, seemingly adopted by the council, ACL was valued at £19.6m, provided the club continued to pay £1.2m a year rent to ACL.
The loan in January 2013 of £14m is over £5m lower than the CBRE August valuation, which may reflect the landscape with regards the potential lower rental from the football club; but could easily have been swollen a touch too by incomes which, at the time and reflected in ACL’s resultant accounts which show turnover in non-footballing revenues increasing. Compromise figure?
One thing is for sure, looking back to comments from Justice Males last July; in which he stated: SISU "had caused rent to be withheld as a means of exerting pressure [on ACL] in their commercial negotiations".
How apt now, that the latest action seems centred on the lowering of ACL’s value to a level below that of the CBRE valuation, and loan made as a function of the behaviour Justice Males was so damning of
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sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Rob whilst you have everyone in close proximity could you bash some heads together ?
Rob S
Well-Known Member
Haha! I suggested to Dave that we should bundle Joy, Peter K-H & Chris West into one of the meeting rooms and bar the doors until they can come up with a decision
It could end up like the end of Reservoir Dogs tho'..?
Hobo
Well-Known Member
At least they won't have to talk to each other, silence in court!
Rob S
Well-Known Member
Joking aside I will be making some attempts to find out where things could stand to actually resolve this rather than have to spend the rest of our lives in court.
There is def. a feeling of needing to get a deal done around the public parts of the court.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC says bank were worried about a conflict of interest with company directors as ACL suggested selling debt to council
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: 400k rent deal of Dec 2012 would only have been for 3 years then open to renegotiation says judge.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC says details of rent deal negotiations misinterpreted to councillors. Implication is not all info available at time of council loan
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
I would have thought a bank would be happy to be paid and not be out of pocket.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
@TheSimonGilbert: Original £1.3m rent deal would have come back into force after three years.
