Otis
Well-Known Member
Don't mention pie charts, you'll have Andy Thorn back like a shot banging on the gates of the training ground.
Questions for Simon Gilbert (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfcway
- Start date
Don't mention pie charts, you'll have Andy Thorn back like a shot banging on the gates of the training ground.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you'd be better reading the whole thread before commenting. I was referring to Dons assertions (post 10), which I guess is related to not agreeing the deal in Jan.
No need to apologise......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
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Yes, this is probably the most interesting question.
We know the owners seem content to pay the price and cover the losses.
But the reduced turnover is not all about increased losses - it's also affecting the clubs ability to pay players wages under the FFP regulation.
So the more important question from a fans point of view must surely be: Are sisu prepared to balance out the negative difference in turnover by injecting an equal amount of equity to avoid a drop in the FFP budget?
On in simpler terms: Are sisu prepared to do everything necessary to have the same FFP budget in Northampton as they would have back in Coventry?
diggerdaley
New Member
Will someone start a pie thread,this is really entertaining & educational .
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Would agree Godiva that's what the fans want to know particularly considering recent form and results
would also suggest that all the questions put to Mr Fisher by the Sky Blue Trust are relevant
1: Why have financial statements of CCFC Limited and CCFC Holdings Limited never been filed for 2012 or 2013? Those for 2012 were due at Companies House and Football league before any event or decision to wind up either company?
2: Given that the attendances at Sixfields are very low and the knock on effect of that financially, how will CCFC meet the requirements of the League 1 Salary Cost Management Protocol and still assemble a competitive team capable of challenging for promotion next year? What is the playing squad profile aimed at? What other sources of sales or income or other cash injections are expected to be achieved that will count towards the calculation and make squad improvements possible or even retain current budgets? Are there still savings on player wages to be achieved?
3: Which players are out of contract by June 2014 and have they (all) been offered new deals? Are you confident that they will accept? Will any players from the current first team squad be sold or not have contracts renewed in the summer of 2014?
4: What is the connection, if any, between ARVO Master Fund Limited (ARVO) and SISU Capital Limited (SCL)? Are there any common directors, officers or owners, if so who? What is the history of ARVO and when was it formed?
5: What assets were acquired by OEG from CCFC H and at what value? Did that value settle any debts CCFC H might have had in any way and if so which?
6: The Auditors report and notes to the financial statements both refer to the “intention” not to call loans in and to source further finance, but that there is “no contractual certainty” of this happening. Does this mean that despite written assurances the shareholders/lenders could indeed call the monies in and the Group could be short of finance it requires within the next 12 months?
7: Is the further downturn in turnover expected in 2014 significant compared to 2013? And will salary costs be less than turnover, unlike 2013 where they were 107% of turnover? How can salary costs exceeding turnover be viable whatever the income steams are?
8: Have (or will) any of the legal and PR costs of the disputes with ACL, The Council or Higgs Charity been included in the financial statements of the Group? If so how much?
9: Interest costs 2013 were £1.8M and 2012 £1.3m. With additional funding now drawn down from ARVO what is now the annual interest charge and how given the losses (negative cash flow) being made can that interest be paid out? What rate of interest is being charged by ARVO? Have player sales ever been made or planned for the future in order to be able to pay loan or interest commitments?
10: Why given the statements in the financial accounts and made in the media by the directors about continued support for the “foreseeable future” from the shareholders are nearly all the borrowings now included in “Creditor’s amounts falling due within one year” of the balance sheet date? How could the Group repay nearly £42m if it were called in that period? Is that a contradiction of the assurances given by stakeholders in respect of going concern? If the "owners" are long term surely the debt should be also?
11: How can borrowings from SISU managed funds and ARVO of £42m in total plus the funding of further losses whilst at Northampton plus the funding of a new stadium be sustainable for a League 1 club? (Particularly since interest is now charged on much of the borrowings?) In 4 years time that could see the Club with £70m in debt, irrespective of it being from “the owners” it is still owed and repayable.
12: Would the directors, in light of the enjoyable performances this season under Steven Pressley’s management, based on a significantly reduced wage budget, agree that in the past the club has paid out too much in salary costs for a team/players that under achieved? And that this has been a major contribution to the losses over the years?
13: The financial statements to 31/05/13 include “remuneration paid to third parties in respect of directors services” of £246,250. Which directors do these payments relate to?
14: Which players were sold during the year that resulted in a net profit on transactions of £1,646,566?
15: What freehold land and buildings does the Group own and is it subject to any charges or agreements? If so in whose favour are those charges or agreements? Are there any planning permissions held or sought on any site owned?
16: When did the Group start accruing interest on the loans from the investment funds managed by SISU Capital Limited? The 2012 and previous accounts indicate that these loans were interest free? What has changed to trigger interest charges? Why has this not been disclosed previously?
17: Part of the loan from ARVO falls due December 2014 how will payment be met if the option to convert to shares is not taken up. The 2012 accounts indicate similar loans were due for payment December 2013 how were they repaid? Has the £1.5m interest included as owing in 2013 current creditors now been paid to ARVO? If so how did the Group obtain the funds to do so and when was it paid?
18: Who owes the £590k to ACL under the agreement with the Football League, OEG or CCFC Limited?
19: Given that the Directors have been working on the proposed new stadium for over a year and plans are apparently well advanced can they now give a proper indication of the budget cost of the total project including land purchase and construction? And proper details of how they will fund it?
21: Can the directors give better details of how the building of a new stadium will make CCFC profitable and provide self investment in the team, rather than a bland statement of “a football club must own its own stadium”? How does a project based on a 15000 to 25000 capacity stadium achieve that and still meet the expectations of the shareholders and investors, together with repaying the increased levels of debt and interest?
21: Finally are the directors now confident that the financial statements give a true and fair statement of the affairs of the Group and contain no items of confusion or error
would also suggest that all the questions put to Mr Fisher by the Sky Blue Trust are relevant
1: Why have financial statements of CCFC Limited and CCFC Holdings Limited never been filed for 2012 or 2013? Those for 2012 were due at Companies House and Football league before any event or decision to wind up either company?
2: Given that the attendances at Sixfields are very low and the knock on effect of that financially, how will CCFC meet the requirements of the League 1 Salary Cost Management Protocol and still assemble a competitive team capable of challenging for promotion next year? What is the playing squad profile aimed at? What other sources of sales or income or other cash injections are expected to be achieved that will count towards the calculation and make squad improvements possible or even retain current budgets? Are there still savings on player wages to be achieved?
3: Which players are out of contract by June 2014 and have they (all) been offered new deals? Are you confident that they will accept? Will any players from the current first team squad be sold or not have contracts renewed in the summer of 2014?
4: What is the connection, if any, between ARVO Master Fund Limited (ARVO) and SISU Capital Limited (SCL)? Are there any common directors, officers or owners, if so who? What is the history of ARVO and when was it formed?
5: What assets were acquired by OEG from CCFC H and at what value? Did that value settle any debts CCFC H might have had in any way and if so which?
6: The Auditors report and notes to the financial statements both refer to the “intention” not to call loans in and to source further finance, but that there is “no contractual certainty” of this happening. Does this mean that despite written assurances the shareholders/lenders could indeed call the monies in and the Group could be short of finance it requires within the next 12 months?
7: Is the further downturn in turnover expected in 2014 significant compared to 2013? And will salary costs be less than turnover, unlike 2013 where they were 107% of turnover? How can salary costs exceeding turnover be viable whatever the income steams are?
8: Have (or will) any of the legal and PR costs of the disputes with ACL, The Council or Higgs Charity been included in the financial statements of the Group? If so how much?
9: Interest costs 2013 were £1.8M and 2012 £1.3m. With additional funding now drawn down from ARVO what is now the annual interest charge and how given the losses (negative cash flow) being made can that interest be paid out? What rate of interest is being charged by ARVO? Have player sales ever been made or planned for the future in order to be able to pay loan or interest commitments?
10: Why given the statements in the financial accounts and made in the media by the directors about continued support for the “foreseeable future” from the shareholders are nearly all the borrowings now included in “Creditor’s amounts falling due within one year” of the balance sheet date? How could the Group repay nearly £42m if it were called in that period? Is that a contradiction of the assurances given by stakeholders in respect of going concern? If the "owners" are long term surely the debt should be also?
11: How can borrowings from SISU managed funds and ARVO of £42m in total plus the funding of further losses whilst at Northampton plus the funding of a new stadium be sustainable for a League 1 club? (Particularly since interest is now charged on much of the borrowings?) In 4 years time that could see the Club with £70m in debt, irrespective of it being from “the owners” it is still owed and repayable.
12: Would the directors, in light of the enjoyable performances this season under Steven Pressley’s management, based on a significantly reduced wage budget, agree that in the past the club has paid out too much in salary costs for a team/players that under achieved? And that this has been a major contribution to the losses over the years?
13: The financial statements to 31/05/13 include “remuneration paid to third parties in respect of directors services” of £246,250. Which directors do these payments relate to?
14: Which players were sold during the year that resulted in a net profit on transactions of £1,646,566?
15: What freehold land and buildings does the Group own and is it subject to any charges or agreements? If so in whose favour are those charges or agreements? Are there any planning permissions held or sought on any site owned?
16: When did the Group start accruing interest on the loans from the investment funds managed by SISU Capital Limited? The 2012 and previous accounts indicate that these loans were interest free? What has changed to trigger interest charges? Why has this not been disclosed previously?
17: Part of the loan from ARVO falls due December 2014 how will payment be met if the option to convert to shares is not taken up. The 2012 accounts indicate similar loans were due for payment December 2013 how were they repaid? Has the £1.5m interest included as owing in 2013 current creditors now been paid to ARVO? If so how did the Group obtain the funds to do so and when was it paid?
18: Who owes the £590k to ACL under the agreement with the Football League, OEG or CCFC Limited?
19: Given that the Directors have been working on the proposed new stadium for over a year and plans are apparently well advanced can they now give a proper indication of the budget cost of the total project including land purchase and construction? And proper details of how they will fund it?
21: Can the directors give better details of how the building of a new stadium will make CCFC profitable and provide self investment in the team, rather than a bland statement of “a football club must own its own stadium”? How does a project based on a 15000 to 25000 capacity stadium achieve that and still meet the expectations of the shareholders and investors, together with repaying the increased levels of debt and interest?
21: Finally are the directors now confident that the financial statements give a true and fair statement of the affairs of the Group and contain no items of confusion or error
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
Nick Kindney do that.
Lorksalordy
New Member
I would add....
1. Given the technical complexity and logistics involved with a new stadium can fans expect a new artists impression before the end of this calendar year ?
2. Could we have a status update from the team of scientific consultants actively work to identify the encoding of the DNA of the club ?
3. Do we have an estimate from the construction company that have been actively engaged for duration of weaving this DNA into the very fabric of the stadium ?
1. Given the technical complexity and logistics involved with a new stadium can fans expect a new artists impression before the end of this calendar year ?
2. Could we have a status update from the team of scientific consultants actively work to identify the encoding of the DNA of the club ?
3. Do we have an estimate from the construction company that have been actively engaged for duration of weaving this DNA into the very fabric of the stadium ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He hasn't said anything of the sort stop making things up.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Never said anything of the sort. Stop your blatant lying.
Post 25:
We weren't offered additional revenue as part of the Ricoh deal, they offered to cross invoice so that it could be counted towards our turnover.
I cannot see how a new stadium will get their money back. I also can't see how renting the Ricoh for £400k per annum will get their money back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
If the club owned its own stadium, how much would it cost the club per annum to maintain the infrastructure, car parks, pitch etc.
OK, back the the real problem, here is my analysis..
OK, back the the real problem, here is my analysis..
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
A slight tangent, but when the Sky Blue Trust does things like this, I find it far more relevant and helpful as a Trust.
The questions are after all open, and offer the opportunity for reassurance from our owners... should they wish to give it...
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Never said anything of the sort. Stop your blatant lying.
Post 25:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
If SISU were to buy out the access to revenues we're all talking about and agreed a long term, cheap rent, things may look a bit rosier. It wouldn't take much effort, just a bit of negotiation and no attempt to drive a business into financial stress.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What is the turnover so far this season and is this in line with projections?
What is the playing budget for next season and if not decided as yet, when will it be
What is the playing budget for next season and if not decided as yet, when will it be
Astute
Well-Known Member
If the club owned its own stadium, how much would it cost the club per annum to maintain the infrastructure, car parks, pitch etc.
OK, back the the real problem, here is my analysis..
Thats not a Pie ,thats a Tart you tart.:facepalm:
skybluelee
Well-Known Member
Thats not a Pie ,thats a Tart you tart.:facepalm:
No, that's a lemon meringue pie if ever I've seen one.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Wheres the meringue? More Tarte au Citron
(I need my tablets and a lie down, as I am taking more pleasure in looking at a picture of a tart than anything related to CCFC)
skybluelee
Well-Known Member
Having just googled 'lemon meringue pie' I will admit I was wrong. It looks nothing like a lemon meringue pie. Doh.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Are you colluding with CCC to try and get rid of SISU?
No, I just seek truth and enlightenment grasshopper
duffer
Well-Known Member
Wheres the meringue? More Tarte au Citron
(I need my tablets and a lie down, as I am taking more pleasure in looking at a picture of a tart than anything related to CCFC)
I got caught looking at pictures of tarts on the internet recently, the missus still hasn't forgiven me.
(Just thought I'd get there first!)
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
you shouldn't make pie with doh....
Moff
Well-Known Member
I got caught looking at pictures of tarts on the internet recently, the missus still hasn't forgiven me.
(Just thought I'd get there first!)
I now know where I have been going wrong in my internet searches!
duffer
Well-Known Member
I now know where I have been going wrong in my internet searches!
But I was just searching for recipes, love. Honest.
(Has to be worth a try).
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Thats not a Pie ,thats a Tart you tart.:facepalm:
Too late, I've eaten the evidence.
You'd have to say the evidence so far Is no .
On a similar turnover to the last accounts given that they were from our time @ the Ricoh £6.6M. FFP @ 60% would give a Player budget of £4M.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I hope these answers solve any long standing concerns you or your members have. If they don't, forward these concerns on to me and I will do my best to splinter your organisation with the replies.
Yours,
Mark 'Labo' Labovitch
P.S. The dry cleaner's bill for Timmy's jacket has been added to the group debt.
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
'On the pitch' questions are for our sports guys rather than me.
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
I don't think there is a 'current offer'. New ACL chairman indicated the 'door is still open' in his recent interview with me.
I would think the onus would be on any potential tenant to make any initial approach.
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
The club won't disclose anything they seem to be 'commercially sensitive'. They certainly won't reveal how much worse / better off they are financially since the move.
The next set of accounts should provide some answers, although I appreciate many feel that is too far away.
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Whenever we ask if a new stadium is viable, we are told that access to all match day revenue streams is the only way a club can survive. Mr Labovitch has indicated moving up the football pyramid would be part of the long term plan.
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Will they say what the official rent figure is that we're paying Northampton? They were quite happy to cite the Ricoh figure plenty of times.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Never said anything of the sort. Stop your blatant lying.
Post 25:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Stu for some reason that post never appeared for me.
So the offer of the good and beverages that was not controlled by compass (approximate 80%)
Was just an offer to include it in FFP figures?
So which scenario has a better future for CCFC
400k rent on a sliding scale
80% of F and B towards FFP. Whilst 45 million in debt
Or our chosen route
75 million in debt ( if we are lucky) more like 90 million
100% F and B in a 15k stadium
Please don't say they are both bad which is the least damaging?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why ask that question? Why ask it 500 times?