Immigration and Asylum (16 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Short of kicking everyone out you cant. Its the price we pay for open borders. So innocent until proven guilty is the closest you can get. But its not enough, and anyone with a modicum of sense can see that

We don’t have open borders but crack on.

 

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[Ccfcisparks]

We don’t have open borders but crack on.

i get the impression he was pissed. the mask has slipped though

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I gave you a solution. You need to read better.

No you didn't. You said deport everyone who doesn't integrate then in the very next post admitted it was near impossible to show people who aren't integrating. So you can't deport anyone.

It's one of those generic terms that the likes of Farage like to use that can mean different things to different people. It's not a policy, it's a soundbite.

As for the thing about not knowing English after a set time, I've suggested that myself before. I think we should explore a legally binding contract migrants have to sign when coming in saying that they will respect other peoples values, faiths, beliefs, biological sex, gender, sexuality etc. and the penalty if they fail to do so is the risk of losing the right to stay here. I really think we need to change the terminology from 'rights' to 'rights and responsibilities'

 

[oscillatewildly]

So many turkeys voting for Christmas as has been the case in previous years.
‘Happy Christmas everyone’.

 

[Briles]

i get the impression he was pissed. the mask has slipped though

You're really sore that I noticed that about you aren't you

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You're really sore that I noticed that about you aren't you

you were defo pissed. quite funny. as i said, i don’t drink

 

[Briles]

you were defo pissed. quite funny. as i said, i don’t drink

Nowt to be ashamed of squire. Cheer up its Friday

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Nowt to be ashamed of squire. Cheer up its Friday

Mask has slipped, i’m not the only one who noticed…

 

[Briles]

Mask has slipped, i’m not the only one who noticed…

Just out of curiosity, have you ever been diagnosed with anything personality wise? Your half trolling reminds me of someone....

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever been diagnosed with anything personality wise? Your half trolling reminds me of someone....

yeah “serious fucking legend” disorder

 

[chiefdave]

View attachment 47150

What worries me is there is so much focus on asylum seekers arriving by boat or those awaiting processing who have been placed in hotels that we are taking our focus off by far the largest group of offenders.

I completely understand the idea of certain groups being over-represented in stats but you can't just ignore the overall figures if they don't fit your narrative.

We also need far better data. This has been raised in previous reviews but it was decided the priority was to spend years on another review rather than action things we already know are an issue.

 

[Briles]

What worries me is there is so much focus on asylum seekers arriving by boat or those awaiting processing who have been placed in hotels that we are taking our focus off by far the largest group of offenders.

I completely understand the idea of certain groups being over-represented in stats but you can't just ignore the overall figures if they don't fit your narrative.

We also need far better data. This has been raised in previous reviews but it was decided the priority was to spend years on another review rather than action things we already know are an issue.

Tbf the data is usually deliberately Hazy to allow scope for whatever the government want to do to deal with it. If it was clear and concise they would have to do what the data shows. If its open to interpretation then they can do what they like

 

[Grendel]

Tbf the data is usually deliberately Hazy to allow scope for whatever the government want to do to deal with it. If it was clear and concise they would have to do what the data shows. If its open to interpretation then they can do what they like

Yeah the Casey report suggested that to be the case

 

[Briles]

Yeah the Casey report suggested that to be the case

Happens on both sides of the fence unfortunately

 

[wingy]

He will still be able to make a warm cup of tea here

Might as well when the west has given it's approval to a leader of a terrorist leader of Syria.

 

[Captain Dart]

"The council argued the government had agreed not to procure accommodation for asylum seekers in excess of a ratio of one asylum seeker per 200 residents, and it would not procure new accommodation while those figures were exceeded.

Mr Justice Eyre rejected this and said figures were planning tools and not limits."

Coventry City Council loses fight over asylum seeker housing

Coventry City Council takes action over a decision to use a hotel to house asylum seekers.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Briles]

3 guesses as to why theyve done this....

UK set to limit asylum seekers to temporary stays

Shabana Mahmood is expected to say the era of permanent protection for refugees is over, in major changes to the UK's asylum and immigration system.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

3 guesses as to why theyve done this....

UK set to limit asylum seekers to temporary stays

Shabana Mahmood is expected to say the era of permanent protection for refugees is over, in major changes to the UK's asylum and immigration system.

www.bbc.co.uk

So if they do nothing…people complain. If they do something the right wants…people complain.

Fair has to be fair, what do the immigration obsessives actually want them to do?

 

[chiefdave]

So if they do nothing…people complain. If they do something the right wants…people complain.

Fair has to be fair, what do the immigration obsessives actually want them to do?

Ridiculous isn't it. Was the same with the hotels. Months of 'why don't they use army barracks', now they're doing that its 'why are they using army barracks'.

Same with this, exactly what people have been asking for but because it's being done those same people now aren't happy with it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ridiculous isn't it. Was the same with the hotels. Months of 'why don't they use army barracks', now they're doing that its 'why are they using army barracks'.

Same with this, exactly what people have been asking for but because it's being done those same people now aren't happy with it.

‘They’re only doing it because loads of people are complaining about it’.

Would people rather they get ignored?

 

[chiefdave]

Been watching reruns of Boon from 1986. Current storyline is the hotel will make more money if they take on a government contract to house immigrants.

There more things change...

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Been watching reruns of Boon from 1986. Current storyline is the hotel will make more money if they take on a government contract to house immigrants.

There more things change...

For the audience, what was net migration in 1986?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Ridiculous isn't it. Was the same with the hotels. Months of 'why don't they use army barracks', now they're doing that its 'why are they using army barracks'.

Same with this, exactly what people have been asking for but because it's being done those same people now aren't happy with it.

What the voters actually want is 0 illegal immigrants. You scoff at the Australian and Danish models of dealing with migration without really acknowledging there’s a problem at all. This is genuinely “crisis? What crisis?!” thinking.

In light of Mahmood’s plans to increase ILR to 10 years, the usual suspects are decrying it on the news round. What’s interesting is that the Migration Observatory estimates there’s between 622-820k non-EU holders of ILR and cross-referencing this with the DWP’s data, 211k were on Universal Credit (UC). Which poses the country with one of two uncomfortable prospects:
1) 27-37% of non-EU migrants are on UC. This is clearly untenable and is a damning failure. Or
2) the true scale ILR is not known and migration higher than what we currently think.

Take your pick, but the more evidence that’s in the public domain, the more it points to mass migration causing a lot of damage to the country.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What the voters actually want is 0 illegal immigrants. You scoff at the Australian and Danish models of dealing with migration without really acknowledging there’s a problem at all. This is genuinely “crisis? What crisis?!” thinking.

In light of Mahmood’s plans to increase ILR to 10 years, the usual suspects are decrying it on the news round. What’s interesting is that the Migration Observatory estimates there’s between 622-820k non-EU holders of ILR and cross-referencing this with the DWP’s data, 211k were on Universal Credit (UC). Which poses the country with one of two uncomfortable prospects:
1) 27-37% of non-EU migrants are on UC. This is clearly untenable and is a damning failure. Or
2) the true scale ILR is not known and migration higher than what we currently think.

Take your pick, but the more evidence that’s in the public domain, the more it points to mass migration causing a lot of damage to the country.

Should have stayed in the eu
Who convinced us that was a good idea?
ah yep I remember

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Should have stayed in the eu
Who convinced us that was a good idea?
ah yep I remember

What’s that got to do with anything? Under the Dublin agreement, we were net-receivers of illegal migrants. The small boats crisis began in 2018 before we’d even left and likewise, the EU has its own problems with illegal migration.

The Australian points style system introduced by Boris Johnson is still the basis of a controlled immigration system that voters fundamentally want.

Equally, the government needs to properly deter illegal migration, enforce visa conditions, clamp down on foreign-born individuals claiming UC. Welcome high-net worth, self-sufficient migrants, end low skill, low net-worth arrivals.

The sooner any government sorts out this toxic mess, the better. Shabana Mahmood was seriously impressive in the Commons earlier and hope she faces down critics in her own party to push through these reforms. It’s a step in the right direction.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What’s that got to do with anything? Under the Dublin agreement, we were net-receivers of illegal migrants. The small boats crisis began in 2018 before we’d even left and likewise, the EU has its own problems with illegal migration.

The Australian points style system introduced by Boris Johnson is still the basis of a controlled immigration system that voters fundamentally want.

Equally, the government needs to properly deter illegal migration, enforce visa conditions, clamp down on foreign-born individuals claiming UC. Welcome high-net worth, self-sufficient migrants, end low skill, low net-worth arrivals.

The sooner any government sorts out this toxic mess, the better. Shabana Mahmood was seriously impressive in the Commons earlier and hope she faces down critics in her own party to push through these reforms. It’s a step in the right direction.

Or the small boats traffikers saw that with us leaving the EU imminently there was soon likely to be no framework to send the people they were trafficking back. So Brexit actually emboldened the small boat traffikers, not deterred them,

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Or the small boats traffikers saw that with us leaving the EU imminently there was soon likely to be no framework to send the people they were trafficking back. So Brexit actually emboldened the small boat traffikers, not deterred them,

You make this claim as if the UK is the only European country facing the issue of illegal migration. The UK was a net recipient of asylum seekers under Dublin Framework and as it happens, this framework has ensured that EU frontier countries (Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece) are incentivised to not process asylum seekers and allow them to wonder on to their destination of choice.

Frankly, the conversation around the ECHR is not limited to the UK. Meloni lead 8-9 signatories calling for this reform.

If they reform it, great. In the meantime, the UK should leave it imo. I cannot see how we can solve this crisis using the existing legal frameworks.

 

[chiefdave]

What the voters actually want is 0 illegal immigrants. You scoff at the Australian and Danish models of dealing with migration without really acknowledging there’s a problem at all. This is genuinely “crisis? What crisis?!” thinking.

Equally, the government needs to properly deter illegal migration, enforce visa conditions, clamp down on foreign-born individuals claiming UC. Welcome high-net worth, self-sufficient migrants, end low skill, low net-worth arrivals.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. What people want is a unicorn. The reality is 0 illegal immigrants is to all intents and purposes impossible. And I'm not even sure people want to stop there. There's increasing noise around removing people already here legally let alone letting more people via legal routes.

A large part of the issue is even if you somehow managed a net migration figure of zero it wouldn't resolve the issue of inequality which is the root cause of most, if not all, the problems currently blamed on immigration.

This of course is a huge problem for the incumbent and plays into the hands of the likes of Farage who will happily promise they can deliver the unicorn. We got Labour in because 'anyone but the current lot' and we may well get Reform because 'anyone but the current lot or the last lot'. Farage promised the unicorn with brexit and then ran a mile when it happened. He wanted nothing to do with implementing it as he knew it was doomed. Waited until he could pop back up and claim it would have been wonderful if they'd just done it right, without ever defining what right was. I understand people wanting a solution but Farage and Reform seem to have more than a touch of fool me once...

Wouldn't say I scoff at the Australian or Danish models. More that I think the geographical differences, both in terms of lack of international waters and who our neighbours are, make implementing the Australian model a very different proposition here.

And with the Danish model I feel people very much want to cherry pick one of two parts to implement. I'm certain if we started paying people tens of thousands to leave the country or spent a huge amount of money housing immigrants in 'better' areas to aid integration there would be uproar.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. What people want is a unicorn. The reality is 0 illegal immigrants is to all intents and purposes impossible. And I'm not even sure people want to stop there. There's increasing noise around removing people already here legally let alone letting more people via legal routes.

A large part of the issue is even if you somehow managed a net migration figure of zero it wouldn't resolve the issue of inequality which is the root cause of most, if not all, the problems currently blamed on immigration.

This of course is a huge problem for the incumbent and plays into the hands of the likes of Farage who will happily promise they can deliver the unicorn. We got Labour in because 'anyone but the current lot' and we may well get Reform because 'anyone but the current lot or the last lot'. Farage promised the unicorn with brexit and then ran a mile when it happened. He wanted nothing to do with implementing it as he knew it was doomed. Waited until he could pop back up and claim it would have been wonderful if they'd just done it right, without ever defining what right was. I understand people wanting a solution but Farage and Reform seem to have more than a touch of fool me once...

Wouldn't say I scoff at the Australian or Danish models. More that I think the geographical differences, both in terms of lack of international waters and who our neighbours are, make implementing the Australian model a very different proposition here.

And with the Danish model I feel people very much want to cherry pick one of two parts to implement. I'm certain if we started paying people tens of thousands to leave the country or spent a huge amount of money housing immigrants in 'better' areas to aid integration there would be uproar.

Right, so because asylum applicants can’t be 0, weeks have to put up with tens of thousands per year? It is this logic that demonstrates why immigration policy has got completely out of control.

Operationally, the Royal Navy think they can stop the boats and implement an Australia style policy. The barrier, however, is the HRA and ECHR. Same with Rwanda and likewise, why Mahmood’s policies will fail. It was a complete success for Australia and detoxified this issue. Likewise, the Danish reforms cut asylum claims by 90%.

The contexts of UK and Denmark are completely different but for your talk of ‘integration’… how do you even begin to integrate 300k to 900k people on a yearly basis? You can’t.

The left naively thinking the public’s anger is purely down to ‘inequalities’ shows why they’re losing the argument. Yes, cost of living is a problem, but so to is immigration in its right. People walk through their communities and don’t recognise it anymore or they don’t feel safe. This narrative you and others put forward is refusing to face up to v fundamental failures in our immigration policies.

Again, the more data that gets released, the more the arguments for open borders is undermined.

27-37% of non-EU migrants with ILR are on UC and a v small % of new arrivals are net-tax contributors. So the underlining justifications for mass immigration in 90-00s is being slowly dismantled.

Anyway, I’m sure Zach Polanski’s wealth taxes will solve ‘wealth inequality’ when it barely covers the costs of migrant hotels.

 

[skybluetony176]

Anyway, I’m sure Zach Polanski’s wealth taxes will solve ‘wealth inequality’ when it barely covers the costs of migrant hotels.

Not sure what figures you’re looking at but the cost of dealing with the migrant problem is about £2.1B a year. Oxfam and Tax justice UK estimate that a wealth tax would generate £25B a year, the Greens estimate is more conservative at £15-25B a year. But whichever way you cut it a wealth tax would more than cover it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Not sure what figures you’re looking at but the cost of dealing with the migrant problem is about £2.1B a year. Oxfam and Tax justice UK estimate that a wealth tax would generate £25B a year, the Greens estimate is more conservative at £15-25B a year. But whichever way you cut it a wealth tax would more than cover it.

Do you believe a wealth tax would raise that per year? Check in with France and Norway.

Besides, that 2.1bn figure is a nonsense. The cost of hotels alone is 1.5bn a year (and rising) and foreign born nationals are claiming 1bn a month (and rising), with 27-37% of non-EU ILR holders on UC.

At a conservative figure, it’s £13.5bn a year which is rising.

 

[Grendel]

Not sure what figures you’re looking at but the cost of dealing with the migrant problem is about £2.1B a year. Oxfam and Tax justice UK estimate that a wealth tax would generate £25B a year, the Greens estimate is more conservative at £15-25B a year. But whichever way you cut it a wealth tax would more than cover it.

Can you share the source of the £2.1 B a year please

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Can you share the source of the £2.1 B a year please

Out of his arse.

 

[Grendel]

I have my doubts that Tax Justice UK is a credible source

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