Immigration and Asylum (8 Viewers)

[Grendel]

What proportion specifically? Or is “large” as specific as we’re going to get from you on this?

Whose “we”?

 

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[SBT]

Who’s “we”?

Well there are multiple people now asking you for clarity on what should be a straightforward question - are you not able to answer it?

 

[Grendel]

Well there are multiple people now asking you for clarity on what should be a straightforward question - are you not able to answer it?

I think “multiple” is something of a stretch. It’s the same hapless crew of you, PVA (who just follows a certain crowd) and the bloke who didn’t even know you had to be in parliament to be Prime Minister.

What’s fascinating is how you rush on threads like this when a certain minority group is commented on but avoid commenting on comments like “everyone who votes reform and Tory don’t like brown people”

Why is that?

 

[PVA]

I think “multiple” is something of a stretch. It’s the same hapless crew of you, PVA (who just follows a certain crowd) and the bloke who didn’t even know you had to be in parliament to be Prime Minister.

What’s fascinating is how you rush on threads like this when a certain minority group is commented on but avoid commenting on comments like “everyone who votes reform and Tory don’t like brown people”

Why is that?

I made one post - pointing out the article you posted, which it seems you have based your claim on that you are now struggling to back up, is bollocks.

 

[Grendel]

I made one post - pointing out the article you posted, which it seems you have based your claim on that you are now struggling to back up, is bollocks.

So do you agree with the comments made in the Casey report on ethnicity being a major factor - is she wrong?

 

[SBT]

I think “multiple” is something of a stretch. It’s the same hapless crew of you, PVA (who just follows a certain crowd) and the bloke who didn’t even know you had to be in parliament to be Prime Minister.

What’s fascinating is how you rush on threads like this when a certain minority group is commented on but avoid commenting on comments like “everyone who votes reform and Tory don’t like brown people”

Why is that?

I swear your filibustering never used to be this obvious, you run out of steam so quickly these days

 

[PVA]

So do you agree with the comments made in the Casey report on ethnicity being a major factor - is she wrong?

No but I do disagree with this statement:

"a large proportion of Pakistani Muslim men who are racist towards white girls and view them as white trash fit only for their sexual gratification"

 

[mmttww]

It’s the same hapless crew...

a bit rich when you're windmilling and whatabouting to avoid a fairly simple question or offer something that backs up a fairly sweeping statement.

 

[Grendel]

No but I do disagree with this statement:

"a large proportion of Pakistani Muslim men who are racist towards white girls and view them as white trash fit only for their sexual gratification"

So you do agree with her comments is racially disproportionate? Sorry I thought you didn’t? Is it?

 

[PVA]

So you do agree with her comments is racially disproportionate? Sorry I thought you didn’t? Is it?

there is quite a difference between

"disproportionate numbers of suspects from Asian ethnic backgrounds"

and

"a large proportion of Pakistani Muslim men who are racist towards white girls and view them as white trash fit only for their sexual gratification"


But you crack on

 

[Grendel]

a bit rich when you're windmilling and whatabouting to avoid a fairly simple question or offer something that backs up a fairly sweeping statement.

Im not windmilling anything. Pakistani men groom white vunerable girls - tell the victims it’s not racially motivated

Shame on you

 

[Grendel]

there is quite a difference between

"disproportionate numbers of suspects from Asian ethnic backgrounds"

and

"a large proportion of Pakistani Muslim men who are racist towards white girls and view them as white trash fit only for their sexual gratification"


But you crack on

So are grooming gangs more likely to be Pakistani of origin or not?

Answer

 

[PVA]

So are grooming gangs more likely to be Pakistani of origin or not?

Answer

'Answer' hahah the pomposity and pretentiousness is off the scale, state of it

In some areas yes - as the report says.

 

[Grendel]

'Answer' hahah the pomposity and pretentiousness is off the scale, state of it

In some areas yes - as the report says.

What areas?

 

[mmttww]

Im not windmilling anything. Pakistani men groom white vunerable girls - tell the victims it’s not racially motivated

Shame on you

doesn't the article you shared conclude that grooming gangs chose who they abused based on how vulnerable the girls were or weren't? ('Type 1').

You might be right that it was racially motivated i.e. they chose white victims because they viewed them as lesser people than other ethnicities.

but you didn't start by talking about grooming gangs. You made a sweeping statement about how an ethnic group views another ethnic group.

You think Pakistani men groom white girls because they're white. If there's evidence, I'll read it. No one's arguing Pakistani men didn't groom white girls.

You think a large proportion of an ethnic group views white women as only existing for their sexual gratification. If there's evidence of that, I'll read it.

I'm replying to stuff you said. I read an article you shared. I asked a question or two. Your response is to go Game of Thrones and call people 'hapless'.

 

[Grendel]

doesn't the article you shared conclude that grooming gangs chose who they abused based on how vulnerable the girls were or weren't? ('Type 1').

You might be right that it was racially motivated i.e. they chose white victims because they viewed them as lesser people than other ethnicities.

but you didn't start by talking about grooming gangs. You made a sweeping statement about how an ethnic group views another ethnic group.

You think Pakistani men groom white girls because they're white. If there's evidence, I'll read it. No one's arguing Pakistani men didn't groom white girls.

You think a large proportion of an ethnic group views white women as only existing for their sexual gratification. If there's evidence of that, I'll read it.

I'm replying to stuff you said. I read an article you shared. I asked a question or two. Your response is to go Game of Thrones and call people 'hapless'.

I mean Pakistan men really respect women

https://qz.com/267305/how-pakistani-attitudes-toward-girls-contributed-to-the-abuse-in-rotherdam

You can take the Nazir Afdal view if you like but I find it reprehensible you even question it.

 

[Grendel]

I swear your filibustering never used to be this obvious, you run out of steam so quickly these days

Well one things first certain. If someone says nasty words to me I won’t cry like a baby and disappear for six months.

 

[SBT]

Well one things first certain. If someone says nasty words to me I won’t cry like a baby and disappear for six months.

More’s the pity…you could never live without it though!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So do you agree with the comments made in the Casey report on ethnicity being a major factor - is she wrong?

The most recent meta analysis we have from the Home Office says that the evidence base is too weak to make generalisations.

 

[Evo1883]

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Scum

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Scum

What a way to say thanks having escape the hell that was Syria ffs

 

[Grendel]

What a way to say thanks having escape the hell that was Syria ffs

He will still be able to make a warm cup of tea here

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

He will still be able to make a warm cup of tea here

Yep probably

 

[mmttww]

I find it reprehensible you even question it.

I asked you a question, and I'm not sold on the idea that a 'large proportion' of all Pakistani men hold the views you say they do. If you find that reprehensible, crack on.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Do you think importing labour from low income countries is conducive for wage growth?

What causes wage growth? Typically the market corrects itself when it’s competing for labour. Remember the HGV driver shortage a few years ago? Wages spiked.

In any case, the government is in all sorts of problems on ‘the budget’ and the only thing it’s really done is increase public sector pay… let’s see how unions like it when income tax increases wipes out a significant % of the pay rises negotiated.

Of course it isn't. And that's the entire reason for it. Firms don't want/can't afford to pay the wages that local people would accept to do the job so importing it is the only option.

I'd love them to pay more to encourage locals to take the jobs and not need as much immigration. But it's the right wing economics that preventing that. And a lot of the companies taking that route are cosying up to farage. So don't expect much to change if Reform did win.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Canada and Australia have socialised insurance systems. We’re one of the only countries where healthcare is completely socialised, all the healthcare workers are government employees and the buildings are owned by the government. As of right now, I just think that’s too much to be responsible for.

Probably a radical idea, but the NHS should be for UK citizens only. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect foreign-born residents to be self-sufficient and have their own private health insurance.

The NHS wasn’t created with the challenges of the 21st century in mind; net migration was on average 50k per year and we had a much younger population.

I think if you want a hybrid system it's pretty much going to have to be placed on large employers to provide that insurance and access to healthcare to reduce pressure on the NHS. Though as a lot of private healthcare use the same doctors and equipment as the NHS there's still a massive supply shortfall.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You keep going back to the conventions. They’re not legally binding so if we have to suspend/withdraw from them, that’s what we need to do.

In any case, most of the points do not contravene these conventions. What do you have in mind when you made this point?

Australia has signed the 1951 refugee convention and processes asylum claims in 3rd countries and turns back the boats.

On the quote, it’s not verified. The person quoted could’ve said there's Premiership footballers amongst them… doesn’t make it true.


Not necessarily. It can be UK-UK marriage or a UK-foreign born spouse. I don’t think a ‘ban’ is practical per se (@Grendel can argue those merits). However:

In specific relation to my point about what happens in Bradford, there is a practice of marrying a woman from their country of origin (particularly in the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities). Therefore, if you deny the visas of the foreign-born spouse, they cannot settle in the UK.

I suppose you could say when an application is going through that any future marriages to people not already granted the right to be in the UK, that new spouse will not be given the right to come to the UK purely due to marriage. You can either choose to live with them there, or live separately, but they will not be given the right to come here.

Future children would be a harder proposition, and denying them the right to come here would be less favourable with the public, but maybe the argument could be "the kid came come here, but the other parent still can't". So again the decision to split the family and the child only having one parent. And maybe stick a limit of say two children on it. A third child (and any thereafter) born to a spouse who does not have the right to be in the UK will not be permitted to come to the UK either, and the spouse in the UK can again decide to return to the other country to reunite the family or have their spouse and other kids living abroad.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Im not windmilling anything. Pakistani men groom white vunerable girls - tell the victims it’s not racially motivated

Shame on you

Do they? It's a sweeping statement that implies ALL Pakistani men groom white vulnerable girls.

At best that statement should start with the word 'some'. Although to be accurate it should say 'a minority of.......but at a higher proportion than other nationalities"

Shame on you.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I suppose you could say when an application is going through that any future marriages to people not already granted the right to be in the UK, that new spouse will not be given the right to come to the UK purely due to marriage. You can either choose to live with them there, or live separately, but they will not be given the right to come here.

Future children would be a harder proposition, and denying them the right to come here would be less favourable with the public, but maybe the argument could be "the kid came come here, but the other parent still can't". So again the decision to split the family and the child only having one parent. And maybe stick a limit of say two children on it. A third child (and any thereafter) born to a spouse who does not have the right to be in the UK will not be permitted to come to the UK either, and the spouse in the UK can again decide to return to the other country to reunite the family or have their spouse and other kids living abroad.

There’s one problem with this… the Human Rights Act which enshrines the ECHR and its court’s rulings. Therefore, this would infringe on the ‘right to a family life’.

Correct me if I’m wrong, you don’t seem to have had the revelation that we should the ECHR.

Of course it isn't. And that's the entire reason for it. Firms don't want/can't afford to pay the wages that local people would accept to do the job so importing it is the only option.

I'd love them to pay more to encourage locals to take the jobs and not need as much immigration. But it's the right wing economics that preventing that. And a lot of the companies taking that route are cosying up to farage. So don't expect much to change if Reform did win.

I think if you want a hybrid system it's pretty much going to have to be placed on large employers to provide that insurance and access to healthcare to reduce pressure on the NHS. Though as a lot of private healthcare use the same doctors and equipment as the NHS there's still a massive supply shortfall.

Right wing economics? Explain.

The NHS is nationalised and is going the way of many monolithic nationalised industries. Poor service, poor working conditions and poor compensation because it’s overburdened. NHS workers (and taxpayers) are voting with their feet and going to other countries with better systems and outcomes, countries that have hybrid systems.

If you’re a GP or a nurse and you’re fed up of the work environment, you can’t exactly pack up and move to another healthcare provider.

Neoliberals were most in favour of freedom of movement but quickly adopted by the political liberal left because they favour open borders. On this issue specifically, it’s more “left” than “right” policy right now.

A lot of businesses do offer PHI and this is an idea that should be expanded and incentivised through tax breaks to individuals and companies.

The reason the resource is shared is because the private sector in this country has been crowded out across the UK by the NHS. As things stand, the majority of private sector involvement in healthcare is where the NHS franchises services out to independent providers.