Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (22 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think they should report the beliefs or even the names of people who do acts like this.

Starve them of the infamy they desire.

You can be sure they won’t report his beliefs if he’s a neo Nazi who was pissed off at Kirk for ‘selling out’.

 

---

[bigfatronssba]

OK let’s play a game. I’ll post some random things Charlie Kirk has said, then you post the Jo Cox equivalent.

View attachment 45970

You can’t get out of that mindset can you?

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

You’ve picked a bunch of things you personally disagree with, so have decided that he somehow had less right to speak his opinions than someone you agree with

Do you support the fundamental principle that people should have the right to say things that you disagree with?

 

[PVA]

You can’t get out of that mindset can you?

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

You’ve picked a bunch of things you personally disagree with, so have decided that he somehow had less right to speak his opinions than someone you agree with

Do you support the fundamental principle that people should have the right to say things that you disagree with?

Bloody hell man. Can you not see what you're doing? Read back what you've written there and apply it to the conversations you're having right now.

 

[covcity4life]

OK let’s play a game. I’ll post some random things Charlie Kirk has said, then you post the Jo Cox equivalent.

View attachment 45970

Fucking hell.

It's not how I do things but can somewhat understand why people don't care what happened.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You can’t get out of that mindset can you?

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

You’ve picked a bunch of things you personally disagree with, so have decided that he somehow had less right to speak his opinions than someone you agree with

Do you support the fundamental principle that people should have the right to say things that you disagree with?

Course he does and the reason you can’t show things like that that Jo cox said is because she didn’t

 

[bigfatronssba]

Course he does and the reason you can’t show things like that that Jo cox said is because she didn’t

If someone is incited to violence because a man has expressed his opinions, who is to blame?

The person who has expressed their opinion? Or the person who has committed violence?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Bloody hell man. Can you not see what you're doing? Read back what you've written there and apply it to the conversations you're having right now.

WTF are you on about?

I support everyone’s right to speak freely

 

[bigfatronssba]

Fucking hell.

It's not how I do things but can somewhat understand why people don't care what happened.

Victim blaming

 

[Ccfcisparks]

WTF are you on about?

I support everyone’s right to speak freely

yet last night you were telling me “watch what you post…”

 

[David O'Day]

WTF are you on about?

I support everyone’s right to speak freely

no you don't, you've been policing peoples views and words for the last 12 hours

liar

 

[bigfatronssba]

yet last night you were telling me “watch what you post…”

Fair comment. Post what you want.

I reserve the right to disagree

 

[bigfatronssba]

no you don't, you've been policing peoples views and words for the last 12 hours

liar

Apart from a single response, at no point have I tried to stop people posting.

You’re confusing disagreement with cancellation

 

[David O'Day]

Apart from a single response, at no point have I tried to stop people posting.

You’re confusing disagreement with cancellation

you've been attacking before for what they or more like you conceive they have said

that's not "free speech" is it buddy

 

[bigfatronssba]

you've been attacking before for what they or more like you conceive they have said

that's not "free speech" is it buddy

Yes it is. You can say whatever, I can criticise you for it.
That is precisely what free speech is.

 

[David O'Day]

Yes it is. You can say whatever, I can criticise you for it.
That is precisely what free speech is.

no, you are seeking to silence people and stop opinions you don't share

you've tied yourself in knots here, lovely stuff

"You can say anything you want, no not that though"

hypocrite

 

[PVA]

WTF are you on about?

I support everyone’s right to speak freely

But you don't, because you're telling people how to feel about this, not to mention Kirk's views etc etc. It's ridiculous hypocrisy.

 

[mmttww]

His whole intention was to encourage debate.

It's sh*t what's happened and it's sad for a lot of reasons, but that doesn't mean anyone needs to pretend he encouraged debate (see his Professor Watchlist and School Board Watchlist projects).

 

[bigfatronssba]

But you don't, because you're telling people how to feel about this, not to mention Kirk's views etc etc. It's ridiculous hypocrisy.

Learn the difference between disagreement and cancellation

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If someone is incited to violence because a man has expressed his opinions, who is to blame?

The person who has expressed their opinion? Or the person who has committed violence?

The person committing the violence but and it’s quite a big one we have laws about inciting hatred and inciting violence so there’s clearly some aspects of what we do that does contribute to something

Nothing (but you have to be careful with this as there are caveats) excuses the taking of another persons life)

Apart from maybe war
Self defence
Defending someone else
If they’ve already taken someone’s life - death penalty

You can see how it’s not binary I mean dom and others want people guilty of sexual assault to be killed

 

[covcity4life]

Victim blaming

Didn't he say empathy is a sin?

 

[bigfatronssba]

It's sh*t what's happened and it's sad for a lot of reasons, but that doesn't mean anyone needs to pretend he encouraged debate (see his Professor Watchlist and School Board Watchlist projects).

That was literally his entire stated aim

 

[David O'Day]

Learn the difference between disagreement and cancellation

That is good advice for yourself.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Didn't he say empathy is a sin?

Yes as well as a lot of other things
Trump showing a lot of empathy I see for opponents this morning

 

[bigfatronssba]

Didn't he say empathy is a sin?

Did he?

So what?

 

[David O'Day]

It's sh*t what's happened and it's sad for a lot of reasons, but that doesn't mean anyone needs to pretend he encouraged debate (see his Professor Watchlist and School Board Watchlist projects).

Lots of his debates where just him answering completely different questions to the one asked.

 

[mmttww]

That was literally his entire stated aim

then he either didn't know what the word meant or he was being misleading which for a bloke that supported the conspiracy theories he did, would not be a surprise.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

This thread proves that there just can't and won't ever be and kind of discourse between left and right leaning individuals.

Charlie Kirk came out with a lot of pretty batshit things, that's undeniable. He was the poster boy for American Conservatism and genuinely some of his views were like he was sucked out of 1957 - largely to whip up right wing hysteria while farming clicks/views to monetise his political influencer career. I very much doubt he believed half of the rhetoric he came out with.

But fundamentally what happened yesterday was abhorrent. Right or left you should be allowed to air your views without the concern of violence coming your way, least of all on the horrific scale of what happened to Charlie.

What's happening in the US is pretty concerning to say the least. The polarised gulf between both ends of the spectrum is getting wider and these incidents only serve to increase that gap and entrench partisan views further.

I do feel it's lost as a country and the increasing tension which is building is only going to end in more mindless violence being committed.

 

[David O'Day]

This thread proves that there just can't and won't ever be and kind of discourse between left and right leaning individuals.

Charlie Kirk came out with a lot of pretty batshit things, that's undeniable. He was the poster boy for American Conservatism and genuinely some of his views were like he was sucked out of 1957 - largely to whip up right wing hysteria while farming clicks/views to monetise his political influencer career. I very much doubt he believed half of the rhetoric he came out with.

But fundamentally what happened yesterday was abhorrent. Right or left you should be allowed to air your views without the concern of violence coming your way, least of all on the horrific scale of what happened to Charlie.

What's happening in the US is pretty concerning to say the least. The polarised gulf between both ends of the spectrum is getting wider and these incidents only serve to increase that gap and entrench partisan views further.

I do feel it's lost as a country and the increasing tension which is building is only going to end in more mindless violence being committed.

why does it? Everyone was getting on fine and agreeing until one person tried to police how people should feel.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This thread proves that there just can't and won't ever be and kind of discourse between left and right leaning individuals.

Charlie Kirk came out with a lot of pretty batshit things, that's undeniable. He was the poster boy for American Conservatism and genuinely some of his views were like he was sucked out of 1957 - largely to whip up right wing hysteria while farming clicks/views to monetise his political influencer career. I very much doubt he believed half of the rhetoric he came out with.

But fundamentally what happened yesterday was abhorrent. Right or left you should be allowed to air your views without the concern of violence coming your way, least of all on the horrific scale of what happened to Charlie.

What's happening in the US is pretty concerning to say the least. The polarised gulf between both ends of the spectrum is getting wider and these incidents only serve to increase that gap and entrench partisan views further.

I do feel it's lost as a country and the increasing tension which is building is only going to end in more mindless violence being committed.

That pretty all encompassing if most of how we all feel mate

 

[bigfatronssba]

That is good advice for yourself.

Who have I tried to cancel?

 

[bigfatronssba]

then he either didn't know what the word meant or he was being misleading which for a bloke that supported the conspiracy theories he did, would not be a surprise.

So what if he did? David Icke supports conspiracy theories. Does that make him a bad person?

 

[duffer]

Yes, strong remainer beliefs

Some people found her very polarising. She was very outspoken

Funny because I don't remember Jo Cox ever saying that a few deaths (presumably including school children and other innocents) were worth it to retain the rights of every man and his dog to hold lethal weapons.

I don't remember her supporting the attempted violent overthrow of a democratically elected government.

Equating Jo Cox to Charlie Kirk is, frankly, an absolute insult to her.

Similarly with Owen Jones or if you prefer Boris Johnson or other 'polarising' figures on the right or left. None of them have ever advocated for political violence or suggested that a few schoolchildren dying was a fair price for their chosen beliefs (I draw the line here at those suggesting that sinking boats in the middle of the Channel is somehow acceptable).

Just to avoid doubt, violence is never the answer to anything, and I would never advocate for it. But if Kirk was content to accept the deaths of others to protect second amendment rights, am I supposed to feel sorry that he's now one of them?

Perhaps he wasn't thinking of himself when he said it, but in essence it seems that he's just died for his cause.

If it troubles you, do what he did for all of those children that died in school shootings - pray for him.

 

[bigfatronssba]

The person committing the violence but and it’s quite a big one we have laws about inciting hatred and inciting violence so there’s clearly some aspects of what we do that does contribute to something

Nothing (but you have to be careful with this as there are caveats) excuses the taking of another persons life)

Apart from maybe war
Self defence
Defending someone else
If they’ve already taken someone’s life - death penalty

You can see how it’s not binary I mean dom and others want people guilty of sexual assault to be killed

If nothing excuses taking another life, Charlie Kirk’s opinions and beliefs are irrelevant to his murder aren’t they?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Funny because I don't remember Jo Cox ever saying that a few deaths (presumably including school children and other innocents) were worth it to retain the rights of every man and his dog to hold lethal weapons.

I don't remember her supporting the attempted violent overthrow of a democratically elected government.

Equating Jo Cox to Charlie Kirk is, frankly, an absolute insult to her.

Similarly with Owen Jones or if you prefer Boris Johnson or other 'polarising' figures on the right or left. None of them have ever advocated for political violence or suggested that a few schoolchildren dying was a fair price for their chosen beliefs (I draw the line here at those suggesting that sinking boats in the middle of the Channel is somehow acceptable).

Just to avoid doubt, violence is never the answer to anything, and I would never advocate for it. But if Kirk was content to accept the deaths of others to protect second amendment rights, am I supposed to feel sorry that he's now one of them?

Perhaps he wasn't thinking of himself when he said it, but in essence it seems that he's just died for his cause.

If it troubles you, do what he did for all of those children that died in school shootings - pray for him.

Who decides what is and isn’t polarising?
You?

 

[PVA]

Learn the difference between disagreement and cancellation

No one here has said Kirk should have been cancelled. Plenty disagreed with him. So I'm not sure what your point is?