Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not really, here is a similar situation which results in patients being put on medication for life, a nice little earner for pharma and often sweet benefits for doctors prescribing their products.

The NHS has been supplying insulin since it's inception but more recently it's become more widely known that you can reverse type 2 diabetes and no longer require insulin or metformin pills with dietery changes.

I certainly never questioned the need for and benefits of insulin and glucose reducing drug therapy until maybe 10 years ago, how about yourself?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the basic flawed operations of the NHS.

My nan was diagnosed with Type 2 about 30 years ago. She was never prescribed insulin and was told to manage it via diet.

 

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[chiefdave]

As some who has struggled with their weight for a long time some of the stuff being posted in here is laughable and a million miles away from how weight management on the NHS actually works.

Mentioned before on the weight loss thread that my weight ballooned when I had to take medication for cluster headaches following someone piling their car into the back of mine at a red light.

Following that I first asked the doctor for help with my weight in 2010. It has taken until this year to be able to access a tier 4 service. Tier 4 is the level which you will need to be to have any chance of being prescribed injections. At present tier 4, at least in Coventry, will not prescribe injections to anyone but if they did the stage you would be at is essentially a choice between injections or surgery.

To even get to Tier 4 you have to be able to demonstrate that you have exhausted every other option and it hasn't worked. You don't just turn up, talk to someone for 5 minutes, and walk away with injections.

Believe me, as a fatty, there is nothing more soul destroying than seeing endless docu-series, online articles etc highlighting someone who is sat on the sofa eating a packet of doughnuts for breakfast questioning why they can't lose weight while you're spending hours in the gym, spending money on personal trainers, strictly following a diet plan and fuck all is happening. Not to mention unlike any other medical condition everyone is an expert. They are all keen to tell you that you just need to do abc or xyz and the weight will drop off. Clearly not believing you when you tell them you tried that and it did nothing.

There are absolutely fatties who just need to get off their arse and move and sort their diet out. This is not who treatment is aimed at or who will be eligible to receive it.

And let's not let food companies off the hook. There was a doc on the BBC recently where they interviewed people employed by the large food manufacturers quite happily telling you about the millions spent on research to make food more addictive, to make you want more. Now that injections are proving to work for many people what are they spending their money on? Developing new additives that nullify the effects of the medication so they can sell you more food.

 

[Sick Boy]

The point is just throwing meds within minutes doesn't work.

Yes, injections will help some on their way to get started and they will change their way of living.

Should they just be put on moujaro for life after 5 minutes with a doctor like they do for sertraline?

Agree with this but there needs to be the funding to deal with the root of the problem.

 

[Nick]

As some who has struggled with their weight for a long time some of the stuff being posted in here is laughable and a million miles away from how weight management on the NHS actually works.

Mentioned before on the weight loss thread that my weight ballooned when I had to take medication for cluster headaches following someone piling their car into the back of mine at a red light.

Following that I first asked the doctor for help with my weight in 2010. It has taken until this year to be able to access a tier 4 service. Tier 4 is the level which you will need to be to have any chance of being prescribed injections. At present tier 4, at least in Coventry, will not prescribe injections to anyone but if they did the stage you would be at is essentially a choice between injections or surgery.

To even get to Tier 4 you have to be able to demonstrate that you have exhausted every other option and it hasn't worked. You don't just turn up, talk to someone for 5 minutes, and walk away with injections.

Believe me, as a fatty, there is nothing more soul destroying than seeing endless docu-series, online articles etc highlighting someone who is sat on the sofa eating a packet of doughnuts for breakfast questioning why they can't lose weight while you're spending hours in the gym, spending money on personal trainers, strictly following a diet plan and fuck all is happening. Not to mention unlike any other medical condition everyone is an expert. They are all keen to tell you that you just need to do abc or xyz and the weight will drop off. Clearly not believing you when you tell them you tried that and it did nothing.

There are absolutely fatties who just need to get off their arse and move and sort their diet out. This is not who treatment is aimed at or who will be eligible to receive it.

And let's not let food companies off the hook. There was a doc on the BBC recently where they interviewed people employed by the large food manufacturers quite happily telling you about the millions spent on research to make food more addictive, to make you want more. Now that injections are proving to work for many people what are they spending their money on? Developing new additives that nullify the effects of the medication so they can sell you more food.

I'd say the personal trainers were shit in fairness and clearly not working for you. It probably doesn't even need hours in the gym to start making a difference.

If it has been 15 years, the technology and what is around has changed. At this point, is getting Mounjaro online not an option to give you a kick start?

 

[PVA]

Bloke at work is on Mounjaro and has lost 2 stone in about 2 months having previously tried and failed to lose weight (not sure how hard he actually tried).

He tried to get it through the NHS but didn't meet the criteria so gets it online

 

[Captain Dart]

Agree with this but there needs to be the funding to deal with the root of the problem.

The problem is in the supermarkets, they're full of crap.

It takes understanding and a strong will to stay clear of buying foods that cause you to put on weight and raise your blood sugar. Same applies to avoiding snacking behaviour which serves to keep blood sugar raised.

 

[chiefdave]

The problem is in the supermarkets, they're full of crap.

this is worth a watch if you haven't seen it already

Irresistible: Why We Can’t Stop Eating

Chris van Tulleken takes a personal view at why ultra-processed foods are so irresistible and how they have come to dominate food culture.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nick]

The problem is in the supermarkets, they're full of crap.

It takes understanding and a strong will to stay clear of buying foods that cause you to put on weight and raise your blood sugar. Same applies to avoiding snacking behaviour which serves to keep blood sugar raised.

Just need to write lists and only get that. Or do it online.

 

[tisza]

And let's not let food companies off the hook. There was a doc on the BBC recently where they interviewed people employed by the large food manufacturers quite happily telling you about the millions spent on research to make food more addictive, to make you want more. Now that injections are proving to work for many people what are they spending their money on? Developing new additives that nullify the effects of the medication so they can sell you more food.

Let's face it it's insane. Look at the ingredients on processed foods, drinks etc and 99.9% of people have no idea exactly what they're putting into their bodies in terms of chemicals, additives, preservatives , flavourings etc. you need a food science degree to read the labels. People have no idea what some of these "unnatural" extras could be doing to their bodies, metabolism etc

 

[chiefdave]

Let's face it it's insane. Look at the ingredients on processed foods, drinks etc and 99.9% of people have no idea exactly what they're putting into their bodies in terms of chemicals, additives, preservatives , flavourings etc. you need a food science degree to read the labels. People have no idea what some of these "unnatural" extras could be doing to their bodies, metabolism etc

One doctor gave me a really simple example which has stuck with me. He said think of a cheese and ham sandwich.

When you were a kid the bread would have come from a local bakers, either made onsite that day or overnight locally. If you left it a day or two it started going stale, couple more days it would have mould on it. Same with cheese, few days before it's going hard and has mould on it. The ham would come from a local butcher and you'd probably see him slice it in front of you.

Now you're buying bread that was baked days ago on the other side of the country that you can keep for 2 weeks without any sign of it going stale or mouldy. Cheese lasts in the fridge for weeks if not months. Ham will have a list of ingredients and say things like mechanically recovered or reformed.

The basics of our food have changed massively. His point was that things we've lived on for decades without it being a problem now have so much shit added to them to increase the manufacturers profit margin and nobody gives a shit the effect that has on the consumer.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Just need to write lists and only get that. Or do it online.

Supermarkets of course aren't arranged to make people buy things that they hadn't planned to, so that'll be easy to do.

 

[rob9872]

One doctor gave me a really simple example which has stuck with me. He said think of a cheese and ham sandwich.

When you were a kid the bread would have come from a local bakers, either made onsite that day or overnight locally. If you left it a day or two it started going stale, couple more days it would have mould on it. Same with cheese, few days before it's going hard and has mould on it. The ham would come from a local butcher and you'd probably see him slice it in front of you.

Now you're buying bread that was baked days ago on the other side of the country that you can keep for 2 weeks without any sign of it going stale or mouldy. Cheese lasts in the fridge for weeks if not months. Ham will have a list of ingredients and say things like mechanically recovered or reformed.

The basics of our food have changed massively. His point was that things we've lived on for decades without it being a problem now have so much shit added to them to increase the manufacturers profit margin and nobody gives a shit the effect that has on the consumer.

Where's the fekkin butter?

 

[chiefdave]

Where's the fekkin butter?

Haha, its been replaced with 'spread' which is pretty much plastic

 

[shmmeee]

Normal people coming into SBT Off Topic be like:

 

[Nick]

Supermarkets of course aren't arranged to make people buy things that they hadn't planned to, so that'll be easy to do.

That's why I said write a list or do it online rather than go in and just guess and throw everything in.

 

[CCFCSteve]

One doctor gave me a really simple example which has stuck with me. He said think of a cheese and ham sandwich.

When you were a kid the bread would have come from a local bakers, either made onsite that day or overnight locally. If you left it a day or two it started going stale, couple more days it would have mould on it. Same with cheese, few days before it's going hard and has mould on it. The ham would come from a local butcher and you'd probably see him slice it in front of you.

Now you're buying bread that was baked days ago on the other side of the country that you can keep for 2 weeks without any sign of it going stale or mouldy. Cheese lasts in the fridge for weeks if not months. Ham will have a list of ingredients and say things like mechanically recovered or reformed.

The basics of our food have changed massively. His point was that things we've lived on for decades without it being a problem now have so much shit added to them to increase the manufacturers profit margin and nobody gives a shit the effect that has on the consumer.

It’s frightening and why people need to try to spend some time checking what’s in stuff (even if just what sugar, salt and sat fat they’re eating, the preservatives etc almost needs a scientist although I just take it that the more unnatural ingredients in something the worse it probably is for me) and then get some fresh fruit and veg in diet*

The U.S. is even worse, especially with colourings, preservatives etc. For all the stick he gets and rightly so with some of the established vaccine stuff, RFK appears to be trying to address this over there. Bold move considering all the lobbying cash but needs sorting looking at the state of their population. We’re not far off though health wise though

Good luck to anyone trying to get healthier though, it’s not easy and will take time but even if you don’t necessarily see the results on the outside, exercise and better eating will no doubt be helping you on the inside - hope that doesn’t sound preachy, it’s not meant to

*I still eat more than my share of crap, go on the odd bender still but try to balance it out a bit

 

[Captain Dart]

Let's face it it's insane. Look at the ingredients on processed foods, drinks etc and 99.9% of people have no idea exactly what they're putting into their bodies in terms of chemicals, additives, preservatives , flavourings etc. you need a food science degree to read the labels. People have no idea what some of these "unnatural" extras could be doing to their bodies, metabolism etc

It's very simple, the more ingredients there are then then the more reason there is to avoid it however nice or moreish it tastes.

 

[wingy]

It’s frightening and why people need to try to spend some time checking what’s in stuff (even if just what sugar, salt and sat fat they’re eating, the preservatives etc almost needs a scientist although I just take it that the more unnatural ingredients in something the worse it probably is for me) and then get some fresh fruit and veg in diet*

The U.S. is even worse, especially with colourings, preservatives etc. For all the stick he gets and rightly so with some of the established vaccine stuff, RFK appears to be trying to address this over there. Bold move considering all the lobbying cash but needs sorting looking at the state of their population. We’re not far off though health wise though

Good luck to anyone trying to get healthier though, it’s not easy and will take time but even if you don’t necessarily see the results on the outside, exercise and better eating will no doubt be helping you on the inside

*I still eat more than my share of crap, go on the odd bender still but try to balance it out a bit

I'd recommend going for that natural stuff, organic,and unbleached bread rice sugar etc although obviously shouldn't really be recommending the last one, but bugger it,and that goes for anything!

 

[shmmeee]

Right lads, it’s horoscope buzzfeed nonsense but post your results.

The Seven Segments of Britain

A new map to help understand the divides and common ground that defines the British public

www.moreincommon.org.uk

Apparently I’m:



(this is clear bollocks, I believe in institutions and mainstream media and follow mainstream politics)

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Right lads, it’s horoscope buzzfeed nonsense but post your results.

The Seven Segments of Britain

A new map to help understand the divides and common ground that defines the British public

www.moreincommon.org.uk

Apparently I’m:

View attachment 44461

(this is clear bollocks, I believe in institutions and mainstream media and follow mainstream politics)

I got incrementalist left.

 

[shmmeee]

I got incrementalist left.

I reckon we can get all seven from regular posters in this thread looking at them.

 

[Marty]

Dissenting Disruptors
You question established authority and institutions, favoring significant systemic change and individual freedom.

 

[chiefdave]

Progressive Activists​

A highly engaged and progressive group, uncompromising on the issues they care about and striving for global social justice.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Progressive Activists​

A highly engaged and progressive group, uncompromising on the issues they care about and striving for global social justice.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Progressive activist

Though in reality activism by the methodology here means posting on social media. Some of the questions are a bit weird.

 

[shmmeee]

Progressive Activists​

A highly engaged and progressive group, uncompromising on the issues they care about and striving for global social justice.

Progressive Activists​

A highly engaged and progressive group, uncompromising on the issues they care about and striving for global social justice.

Progressive activist

Though in reality activism by the methodology here means posting on social media. Some of the questions are a bit weird.

Bloody woke echo chamber this place. ESB justified.

 

[shmmeee]

Progressive activist

Though in reality activism by the methodology here means posting on social media. Some of the questions are a bit weird.

I hate these personality quiz things, the one that was something like should kids be curious or respectful was a weird one. It tries very hard to make you say something extreme IMO.

 

[TomRad85]

Dissenting Disruptors​

You question established authority and institutions, favoring significant systemic change and individual freedom.

I must admit, i found some of the questions hard to answer either way as there is probably a bit more nuance than a basic click here answer.
The one i found the hardest to answer as a father was funnily enough this one...

I mean, obviously you don't want a problem child do you. You want your child to be respectful of their teachers, who along with their parents are the authority at a young age, but I wouldn't want him to be entirely unquestioning of those in authority going forward, respect is earned after all.

 

[Grendel]

I’m an established liberal - how lovely

 

[TomRad85]

I hate these personality quiz things, the one that was something like should kids be curious or respectful was a weird one. It tries very hard to make you say something extreme IMO.

You beat me to it! Glad i'm not the only one who had issues with that one... i think a lot of the answers try to push you to an extreme end.

 

[tisza]

I hate these personality quiz things, the one that was something like should kids be curious or respectful was a weird one. It tries very hard to make you say something extreme IMO.

I couldn't get the point of that particular question. How is curiosity almost a polar opposite to good manners? I'd want my kids to have both.

 

[tisza]

Dissenting Disruptors​

You question established authority and institutions, favoring significant systemic change and individual freedom.

I must admit, i found some of the questions hard to answer either way as there is probably a bit more nuance than a basic click here answer.
The one i found the hardest to answer as a father was funnily enough this one...
View attachment 44466
I mean, obviously you don't want a problem child do you. You want your child to be respectful of their teachers, who along with their parents are the authority at a young age, but I wouldn't want him to be entirely unquestioning of those in authority going forward, respect is earned after all.

Another silly question. Authority doesn't mean it's automatically legitimate or correct.

 

[TomRad85]

Another silly question. Authority doesn't mean it's automatically legitimate or correct.

Yeh exactly. The authority of a teacher for example, to a child, who all being well you'd hope wants the best for your child (we'll assume the best here) is slightly different to the authority of Adolf Hitler.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I hate these personality quiz things, the one that was something like should kids be curious or respectful was a weird one. It tries very hard to make you say something extreme IMO.

I was going to mention that exact question, I couldn't see any opposition between the statements at either end of the scale

 

[shmmeee]

Got to say though, everyone coming in roughly where I’d have guessed so maybe there’s something to it and I am an overly online overly skeptical weirdo.