Do you want to discuss boring politics? (15 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Depends on the person, doesn't it?

Any time people fuck up in public jobs it's "oh under funded"

Fuck ups or Daniel pelka, under funded. People doing nothing about nonce gangs, not enough funding.

It's the instant go to for some on here.

But there being failings and things not having enough funding are not mutually exclusive.

Just because there are instances of terrible failings doesn't mean that aren't other preventable instances where not enough has been done that could if more funding had been available.

Or is it better that along with those terrible failings we add more to the list that are literally down to not enough funding and manpower cos we just want to automatically blame people not doing their jobs properly.

We've literally got someone on here telling you the difference it makes when their partner's department was basically disbanded because of 'inefficiency' and then a terrible incident that was being prevented before happened not long after the change. And they tried to blame the department for not doing their job properly.

As for you response of you'd just not bother and claim underfunding, that says more about your attitude than those that actually do it. Most are very conscientious people working really hard trying to make a difference with ever increasing workloads and less resources.

 

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[Nick]

But there being failings and things not having enough funding are not mutually exclusive.

Just because there are instances of terrible failings doesn't mean that aren't other preventable instances where not enough has been done that could if more funding had been available.

Or is it better that along with those terrible failings we add more to the list that are literally down to not enough funding and manpower cos we just want to automatically blame people not doing their jobs properly.

We've literally got someone on here telling you the difference it makes when their partner's department was basically disbanded because of 'inefficiency' and then a terrible incident that was being prevented before happened not long after the change. And they tried to blame the department for not doing their job properly.

As for you response of you'd just not bother and claim underfunding, that says more about your attitude than those that actually do it. Most are very conscientious people working really hard trying to make a difference with ever increasing workloads and less resources.

Daniel Pelka was failed by multiple organisations, multiple individuals didn't do their jobs properly.

It's hard to claim under funding when he's actually been under their noses, it's not like he was stuck on a waiting list because of lack of staff.

So yeah, multiple people didn't do their jobs properly.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Daniel Pelka was failed by multiple organisations, multiple individuals didn't do their jobs properly.

It's hard to claim under funding when he's actually been under their noses, it's not like he was stuck on a waiting list because of lack of staff.

So yeah, multiple people didn't do their jobs properly.

But not the only case. There are lots of people requiring services that are stuck on a waiting list because there just aren't enough people.

I used to work with someone who left to become a carer for the elderly. She had about 15minutes with each client - nowhere near enough. She left after about two months cos it was just unbearable.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Anyone that thinks the grooming gangs inquiry will lead to anything other than hand wringing is more naive than me
Watch the greenfell documentary
I’m not sure of the answer it’s probably integrity in public life but sure as hell if no one pays for the errors at hillsborough or grenfell no one will be convicted of anything for the grooming gangs

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Anyone that thinks the grooming gangs inquiry will lead to anything other than hand wringing is more naive than me
Watch the greenfell documentary
I’m not sure of the answer it’s probably integrity in public life but sure as hell if no one pays for the errors at hillsborough or grenfell no one will be convicted of anything for the grooming gangs

You can add the post office scandal to that list. To be honest, also the Telford hospital scandal where countless babies died or were permanently injured in the 90s. Astonishing that nobody has been arrested.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You can add the post office scandal to that list. To be honest, also the Telford hospital scandal where countless babies died or were permanently injured in the 90s. Astonishing that nobody has been arrested.

It’s so shit
In my naive teenage years I thought truth will out with hillsborough boy was I wrong. But still try to trust authorities- what choice do we have?
Then you have the posh office and multiple hospital trusts. My friend has led one of these before and the balance between encouraging truth for lessons to be learned and not inviting individuals to sign their own arrest warrants is real
Other friends work in fire safety and although regulations have been tightened up there’s not enough people who know what they’re on about to make things ok
Made worse in the jobs in the regulatory body paying £45k when the market pays £100k who’s gonna accept the jobs? People that don’t know what they need to know

What can one do BSB?
Apathy seems so much easier than caring enough to try and make a difference or campaign to make a difference

The grenfell stuff has sort of finished me off

 

[Captain Dart]

You can add the post office scandal to that list. To be honest, also the Telford hospital scandal where countless babies died or were permanently injured in the 90s. Astonishing that nobody has been arrested.

In the infected blood scandal delays serves to reduce the bills as potential claimants are dying, the compensation claims are still not concluded.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s so shit
In my naive teenage years I thought truth will out with hillsborough boy was I wrong. But still try to trust authorities- what choice do we have?
Then you have the posh office and multiple hospital trusts. My friend has led one of these before and the balance between encouraging truth for lessons to be learned and not inviting individuals to sign their own arrest warrants is real
Other friends work in fire safety and although regulations have been tightened up there’s not enough people who know what they’re on about to make things ok
Made worse in the jobs in the regulatory body paying £45k when the market pays £100k who’s gonna accept the jobs? People that don’t know what they need to know

What can one do BSB?
Apathy seems so much easier than caring enough to try and make a difference or campaign to make a difference

The grenfell stuff has sort of finished me off

Every job has people who don’t give a shit or are incompetent. That’s just a universal truth that at any time in a organisation a given number of people will be in that state for a variety of reasons. The same as every reporter makes mistakes or has biases. We live in an age of total transparency where we hear about not just everything happening now but everything historically. It’s caused a complete breakdown in trust because we aren’t used to seeing it all and not all at once.

But the alternative is far worse, there’s not a bunch of competent people sat on the sidelines waiting to come in everywhere, humans are fallible and as such so are institutions consisting of humans.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Every job has people who don’t give a shit or are incompetent. That’s just a universal truth that at any time in a organisation a given number of people will be in that state for a variety of reasons. The same as every reporter makes mistakes or has biases. We live in an age of total transparency where we hear about not just everything happening now but everything historically. It’s caused a complete breakdown in trust because we aren’t used to seeing it all and not all at once.

But the alternative is far worse, there’s not a bunch of competent people sat on the sidelines waiting to come in everywhere, humans are fallible and as such so are institutions consisting of humans.

That sounds true but also the last paragraph sounds like oh well can’t do anything about it so let’s not try

I agree I’m fallible as is everyone and therefore so are all institutions

 

[shmmeee]

That sounds true but also the last paragraph sounds like oh well can’t do anything about it so let’s not try

I agree I’m fallible as is everyone and therefore so are all institutions

No keep trying but realise it’s part of a transparent democratic society is realising the reaction isn’t to throw the whole lot out and expect perfection from the next lot.

The answer always seems to be “these people are broken, get these people in who are not”. All the people are broken, all you can do is tweak the systems the operate in.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No keep trying but realise it’s part of a transparent democratic society is realising the reaction isn’t to throw the whole lot out and expect perfection from the next lot.

The answer always seems to be “these people are broken, get these people in who are not”. All the people are broken, all you can do is tweak the systems the operate in.

Ok
Thank you

 

[shmmeee]

Meet the new right, same as the old right. One policy aside from immigration: I should pay less tax

The £34bn cost of Reform UK’s “Britannia card” proposal

Reform UK’s Britannia Card would let wealthy foreigners pay £250,000 to avoid UK tax — but would likely cost £34bn and reduce skilled migration.

taxpolicy.org.uk

 

[SBT]

Meet the new right, same as the old right. One policy aside from immigration: I should pay less tax

The £34bn cost of Reform UK’s “Britannia card” proposal

Reform UK’s Britannia Card would let wealthy foreigners pay £250,000 to avoid UK tax — but would likely cost £34bn and reduce skilled migration.

taxpolicy.org.uk

Isn’t this just a rip-off of the Trump Gold Card idea? These people don’t have a single original idea, politicians of all stripes are way too obsessed with America.

 

[shmmeee]

Isn’t this just a rip-off of the Trump Gold Card idea? These people don’t have a single original idea, politicians of all stripes are way too obsessed with America.

No Trumps policy wants $5mn, which shows how little Reform think UK citizenship is worth by comparison.

Saw an absolute car crash interview with their chairman on this. Kept being asked about the tens of billions it’ll cost because it’s a massive discount to the non doms already here and he just kept repeating “well some have left”.

They’re an absolute clown show of a party. Like someone took the 2019 Tories and went “that, but less competent”

 

[SBAndy]

No Trumps policy wants $5mn, which shows how little Reform think UK citizenship is worth by comparison.

Saw an absolute car crash interview with their chairman on this. Kept being asked about the tens of billions it’ll cost because it’s a massive discount to the non doms already here and he just kept repeating “well some have left”.

They’re an absolute clown show of a party. Like someone took the 2019 Tories and went “that, but less competent”

“And the people will get £600 and they will be grateful.”

It’s genuinely hilarious.

 

[shmmeee]

“And the people will get £600 and they will be grateful.”

It’s genuinely hilarious.

Let’s be honest here. He could propose compulsory daily colonoscopies charged at £50 a time straight to his bank account and 30% of the country would rush to vote cos he also hates forrins.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No Trumps policy wants $5mn, which shows how little Reform think UK citizenship is worth by comparison.

Saw an absolute car crash interview with their chairman on this. Kept being asked about the tens of billions it’ll cost because it’s a massive discount to the non doms already here and he just kept repeating “well some have left”.

They’re an absolute clown show of a party. Like someone took the 2019 Tories and went “that, but less competent”

To be honest, it’s a dumb policy from Reform and some of their policies economically that are populist are just a reflection of their growing ‘coalition’ of voters.

All in all, they’re risking credibility as a government in waiting and as the opinion polls are showing, a Reform government is a probability rather than a possibility right now.

A lot can change but does the party have elite talent and a credible policy platform? Not for me.

If the Tories and Labour hadn’t haemorrhaged trust on the issue of immigration, Farage would still be a TV host.

 

[shmmeee]

as the opinion polls are showing, a Reform government is a probability rather than a possibility right now.

The opinion polls show a reduced Labour majority or at worst a Lib Lab coalition/C&S. We don’t run a presidential system, you can’t just look at the national polls. Even a 35% Reform vote (seemingly their ceiling) is unlikely to produce a government that can gain the confidence of the house. All the head to head PM polling has Farage last, there will be a significant tactical vote against him from across the spectrum. Lib Dems will pick up 70+ seats, and left wing voters and rational right wing voters will hold their nose and vote against him. If you think the Greens are picking up 11% at a general election you’re going to be very disappointed. I expect a Farage referendum and one of the most two party results since 2017.

 

[Sick Boy]

“And the people will get £600 and they will be grateful.”

It’s genuinely hilarious.

It is apart from they could well end up in power.

 

[SBAndy]

If the Tories and Labour hadn’t haemorrhaged trust on the issue of immigration, Farage would still be a TV host.

And if Piers Morgan hadn’t called him a chicken on Question Time he may well not be an MP right now.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The opinion polls show a reduced Labour majority or at worst a Lib Lab coalition/C&S. We don’t run a presidential system, you can’t just look at the national polls. Even a 35% Reform vote (seemingly their ceiling) is unlikely to produce a government that can gain the confidence of the house. All the head to head PM polling has Farage last, there will be a significant tactical vote against him from across the spectrum. Lib Dems will pick up 70+ seats, and left wing voters and rational right wing voters will hold their nose and vote against him. If you think the Greens are picking up 11% at a general election you’re going to be very disappointed. I expect a Farage referendum and one of the most two party results since 2017.

You’re v dismissive of the threat the Greens pose to Labour. It’s as if you haven’t learned from the rise of Reform at all. Do you think in 2020/21 that the tories felt Reform would get 15% of the vote by 2024? Absolutely not. I know this because a friend of mine worked for a Tory MP. They laughed off the threat and Reform may wipe them out.

2017 was the most 2 party election since the 1970s. With how fragmented the party political system is right now, it’s unlikely Labour keep their 2024 vote share of 35%, let alone improve it to the high 30s to 40% mark.

On Reform, people have been adjusting their ‘ceiling’ for Reform. First it was 15%, now it’s 35%. Which, isn’t insignificant because Labour just got 35% of the popular vote and have a stinking majority. Your seat totals snowball after you hit 30% in first past the post electoral systems.

What could help Labour, is that tactical voting. Lib Dem and Green voters could swing behind Reform to prevent Reform. That said, a lot of left wing voters are equally dissatisfied with this government so why would they keep a “Tory lite” party in government?

To add to this, Starmer and Reeves’ personal ratings are horrible. Farage is equally divisive but like Trump, people will vote ‘for change’ and whether that’s enough to win an election… it’s

A reduced Labour majority and/or Lab/LD coalition is wishful thinking. It’s not even 1 year into the parliament and it doesn’t get much better from here popularity wise.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And if Piers Morgan hadn’t called him a chicken on Question Time he may well not be an MP right now.

Its like when Obama mocked Trump by saying ‘you’ll never be president’…

 

[Grendel]

It seems a lot of Labour MPs aren’t happy.

Another U Turn imminent

Labour MPs ready to rebel against welfare reforms despite deselection threat

Labour has vowed to press on with a vote next week despite more than 100 Labour MPs signing their names to a Commons bid to halt the welfare reforms in their tracks

www.independent.co.uk

 

[shmmeee]

Happy Independence Day everyone!

What Britain looks like after Brexit

You’re reading Reaction.

www.reaction.life

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It seems a lot of Labour MPs aren’t happy.

Another U Turn imminent

Labour MPs ready to rebel against welfare reforms despite deselection threat

Labour has vowed to press on with a vote next week despite more than 100 Labour MPs signing their names to a Commons bid to halt the welfare reforms in their tracks

www.independent.co.uk

This government truly is the antithesis of Thatcher…

‘The government is for turning’

 

[Grendel]

This government truly is the antithesis of Thatcher…

‘The government is for turning’

The Tories may vote with them to get them over the line.

 

[rob9872]

They first need to be more credible by having more worthy candidates and proposals than popular little soundbites, but whilst you're all fretting over the next election and making wild predictions about the unknown, we're only just over a year into this parliament and potentially 4 years away from the next. A lot could happen between now and then on all fronts, including the big Labour giveaway in the final two years. Never underestimate the short term memory of the electorate.

 

[shmmeee]

Nuclear fusion is here, it’s just 90m miles away.

 

[shmmeee]

They first need to be more credible by having more worthy candidates and proposals than popular little soundbites, but whilst you're all fretting over the next election and making wild predictions about the unknown, we're only just over a year into this parliament and potentially 4 years away from the next. A lot could happen between now and then on all fronts, including the big Labour giveaway in the final two years. Never underestimate the short term memory of the electorate.

4 years is fucking ages. This was four years ago:

 

[tisza]

4 years is fucking ages. This was four years ago:

Didn't have "to find a gap". Just let the Tories self-implode. Any Govt/party is capable of that.

 

[rob9872]

Didn't have "to find a gap". Just let the Tories self-implode. Any Govt/party is capable of that.

Exactly and that's why I think everyone is so quick to find fault with this lot, because imo the votes for them apart from their core vote, was more anti-Tory than pro-Labour.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You’re v dismissive of the threat the Greens pose to Labour. It’s as if you haven’t learned from the rise of Reform at all. Do you think in 2020/21 that the tories felt Reform would get 15% of the vote by 2024? Absolutely not. I know this because a friend of mine worked for a Tory MP. They laughed off the threat and Reform may wipe them out.

2017 was the most 2 party election since the 1970s. With how fragmented the party political system is right now, it’s unlikely Labour keep their 2024 vote share of 35%, let alone improve it to the high 30s to 40% mark.

On Reform, people have been adjusting their ‘ceiling’ for Reform. First it was 15%, now it’s 35%. Which, isn’t insignificant because Labour just got 35% of the popular vote and have a stinking majority. Your seat totals snowball after you hit 30% in first past the post electoral systems.

What could help Labour, is that tactical voting. Lib Dem and Green voters could swing behind Reform to prevent Reform. That said, a lot of left wing voters are equally dissatisfied with this government so why would they keep a “Tory lite” party in government?

To add to this, Starmer and Reeves’ personal ratings are horrible. Farage is equally divisive but like Trump, people will vote ‘for change’ and whether that’s enough to win an election… it’s

A reduced Labour majority and/or Lab/LD coalition is wishful thinking. It’s not even 1 year into the parliament and it doesn’t get much better from here popularity wise.

My view is still, just, that any Labour government is better for me than a Tory one. But if they suffered some bloody noses locally, they should. I cannot stand my local Labour MP and want him out.

 

[shmmeee]

Exactly and that's why I think everyone is so quick to find fault with this lot, because imo the votes for them apart from their core vote, was more anti-Tory than pro-Labour.

That’s just politics these days, everyone is hated. None of Johnson Farage Starmer are popular, the days of Obama type figures is well over.

 

[SBT]

That’s just politics these days, everyone is hated. None of Johnson Farage Starmer are popular, the days of Obama type figures is well over.

Even Obama’s approval ratings were persistently underwater, he was far from a universally loved politician. Must have been that Cheshire Cat grin of his.

 

[shmmeee]

Even Obama’s approval ratings were persistently underwater, he was far from a universally loved politician. Must have been that Cheshire Cat grin of his.

His starting approvals were pretty high historically: