Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

[tisza]

Is objecting to the cover up of sexual grooming a "far right" issue now?

Surely every right minded individual would be appalled by the issue, not just those of a far right persuasion.

Tommy Robinson was warning about this 15 years ago, and got demonised by the press and politicians as a result.
I'd suggest it's the liberal left that should feel ashamed for their actions.

Cost Sarah Champion a place in Corbyn's shadow cabinet

 

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[Ccfcisparks]

Is objecting to the cover up of sexual grooming a "far right" issue now?

Surely every right minded individual would be appalled by the issue, not just those of a far right persuasion.

Tommy Robinson was warning about this 15 years ago, and got demonised by the press and politicians as a result.
I'd suggest it's the liberal left that should feel ashamed for their actions.

I’d suggest that’s because Mr Yaxley Lennon is a bad ming

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Report does say on nearly all the research under "ethnicity" that the data should be treated with caution or in some instances does not distinguish between groups and individuals.

It does, and it also warns against the dangers of smearing entire communities on the basis of these high profile cases.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is objecting to the cover up of sexual grooming a "far right" issue now?

Surely every right minded individual would be appalled by the issue, not just those of a far right persuasion.

Tommy Robinson was warning about this 15 years ago, and got demonised by the press and politicians as a result.
I'd suggest it's the liberal left that should feel ashamed for their actions.

Read Casey notes and maybe you’ll realise it’s about the victims and that far be it being a woke liberal issue of cover up it covers all political slants
It would appear only labour have had the balls to start the recommendations off and get things going

And there’s me politicising it sorry!!!!

 

[wingy]

Don't want to widen it to level's but it's not just gangs even solitary rape is mishandled in this country, not helped by the lawyers who defend.
Toxic males?

 

[tisza]

It does, and it also warns against the dangers of smearing entire communities on the basis of these high profile cases.

Absolutely right too

 

[tisza]

Read Casey notes and maybe you’ll realise it’s about the victims and that far be it being a woke liberal issue of cover up it covers all political slants
It would appear only labour have had the balls to start the recommendations off and get things going

Not a question of balls. Nowhere else to go following that report. This Govt was opposed to a national inquiry up until the Casey report was leaked. West Yorkshire and Bradford councils have had to back track as well - 2 regions where major concerns have been raised.
No Govt going back to 2001 comes out of this with any credit. It basically took an outstanding journalist in Andrew Norfolk to force the issue of recognising the existence of grooming gangs in the first place - despite being labelled a "racist", receiving death threats and being blocked by authorities and police forces. Sadly he died suddenly just before the Casey report was published.

 

[tisza]

Don't want to widen it to level's but it's not just gangs even solitary rape is mishandled in this country, not helped by the lawyers who defend.
Toxic males?

The record on sex crimes is a national disgrace. While the immediate focus is on children the authorities should still be crucified over the way huge numbers of women have been horrendously treated and let down by the system.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Absolutely right too

That has essentially been my main argument throughout the thread.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not a question of balls. Nowhere else to go following that report. This Govt was opposed to a national inquiry up until the Casey report was leaked. West Yorkshire and Bradford councils have had to back track as well - 2 regions where major concerns have been raised.
No Govt going back to 2001 comes out of this with any credit. It basically took an outstanding journalist in Andrew Norfolk to force the issue of recognising the existence of grooming gangs in the first place - despite being labelled a "racist", receiving death threats and being blocked by authorities and police forces. Sadly he died suddenly just before the Casey report was published.

Recently
And often it’s journalism that is the key mover

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The record on sex crimes is a national disgrace. While the immediate focus is on children the authorities should still be crucified over the way huge numbers of women have been horrendously treated and let down by the system.

And then imprisoned

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not a question of balls. Nowhere else to go following that report. This Govt was opposed to a national inquiry up until the Casey report was leaked. West Yorkshire and Bradford councils have had to back track as well - 2 regions where major concerns have been raised.
No Govt going back to 2001 comes out of this with any credit. It basically took an outstanding journalist in Andrew Norfolk to force the issue of recognising the existence of grooming gangs in the first place - despite being labelled a "racist", receiving death threats and being blocked by authorities and police forces. Sadly he died suddenly just before the Casey report was published.

The balls was to follow through on the recommendations of the previous inquiry not necessarily the Casey report

 

[fernandopartridge]

Grooming gangs report author says word ‘Pakistani’ was ‘tippexed out’ of child’s file

Ignoring ethnicity of grooming gang perpetrators gives racists ‘more ammunition’, says Baroness Casey

www.independent.co.uk

It doesn't say it in the official report, that's odd

 

[tisza]

The balls was to follow through on the recommendations of the previous inquiry not necessarily the Casey report

Again nowhere else to go. having commissioned the Casey inquiry in Jan they had to do something before the findings were officially released. Political convenience.

 

[fatso]

Read Casey notes and maybe you’ll realise it’s about the victims and that far be it being a woke liberal issue of cover up it covers all political slants
It would appear only labour have had the balls to start the recommendations off and get things going

And there’s me politicising it sorry!!!!

It was Labour who only recently called anyone who argued for an independent enquiry, far right thugs.

Unfortunately the cover up has gone on for years, and so both political parties are equally culpable imo.

 

[fatso]

It does, and it also warns against the dangers of smearing entire communities on the basis of these high profile cases.

Let's see how the Pakistani community respond to the enquiry, let's hope they cooperate and maybe even police themselves.

 

[Sick Boy]

The record on sex crimes is a national disgrace. While the immediate focus is on children the authorities should still be crucified over the way huge numbers of women have been horrendously treated and let down by the system.

I’ve always said it should treated on par as murder. It’s a disgrace that it isn’t.

 

[fatso]

No, I was talking about the far right probably leaping on this and tarring everyone from the Pakistani community with the same brush.

I don't think they've done that, and tbf even Tommy Robinson is quick to separate good from bad in all communities, he goes to some lengths to explain that it's not all Muslims that are the problem, it's the very small percentage of fundamental radicalised Muslims that are the problem.

But that doesn't make the headlines, and unfortunately our press are also part of the problem. Sensationalist headlines are more important than the truth.

 

[wingy]

Journalism, pah! my feeds more interested in telling us what weather disaster is due,where and when to go there, who's serving the best coffee in which town, Which beach is secluded,or used to be before they got their teeth into it!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Its a bit more than just poor data collection. People are still ignoring a key element of the Casey report:

"We found many examples of organisations avoiding the topic altogether for fear of appearing racist, raising community tensions or causing community cohesion problems,"

Unfortunately ‘do gooders’ have inadvertently thrown the large majority of good, well meaning members of the Pakistani community under the bus as this could/should’ve been nipped in the bud years ago. The far right will now leap on this and probably try to tar everyone with the same brush. Same as the HR lawyers/open borders groups keeping criminals in the country for spurious reasons to block deportations.

All that happens is people then question everything whether that’s immigration as a whole, the ECHR or even the political establishment which leaves the space for populism.

Been talking about it since before Brexit and it’s similar to the problems in the U.S., if you ignore decent people’s genuine concerns, throw cost of living crisis/difficult economic times and you can end up with people like Trump or god forbid Farage in power.

Just seen that the justice secretary has made a speech aligning us to the nine other countries pushing to reform the ECHR. About time

One thing I’ll say about the government, whilst I don’t agree with all their policies at least they appear intent on actually doing stuff. Just hope it’s not all talk

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No, I was talking about the far right probably leaping on this and tarring everyone from the Pakistani community with the same brush.

Frankly, everyone should be jumping on this irrespective of political leanings. The framing of this as a ‘left v right’ issue is plainly stupid.

The Ministry of Justice recently released data that showed 26% of sexual assault convictions were foreign born, overrepresented in the statistics again. Top of the charts? Indians, Romanians, Poles, Pakistanis and Afghans.

Ultimately, we’ve done this to ourselves and continues to demonstrate the for significant reform to immigration system.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Frankly, everyone should be jumping on this irrespective of political leanings. The framing of this as a ‘left v right’ issue is plainly stupid.

The Ministry of Justice recently released data that showed 26% of sexual assault convictions were foreign born, overrepresented in the statistics again. Top of the charts? Indians, Romanians, Poles, Pakistanis and Afghans.

Ultimately, we’ve done this to ourselves and continues to demonstrate the for significant reform to immigration system.

Stop tarring whole communities and there is no argument to be had. Still what it looks like you’re doing even there.

What is your proposed solution?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Stop tarring whole communities and there is no argument to be had. Still what it looks like you’re doing even there.

What is your proposed solution?

The framing is wrong and everyone should be unhappy with what’s been allowed to happen

 

[Ian1779]

Frankly, everyone should be jumping on this irrespective of political leanings. The framing of this as a ‘left v right’ issue is plainly stupid.

The Ministry of Justice recently released data that showed 26% of sexual assault convictions were foreign born, overrepresented in the statistics again. Top of the charts? Indians, Romanians, Poles, Pakistanis and Afghans.

Ultimately, we’ve done this to ourselves and continues to demonstrate the for significant reform to immigration system.

Everyone should be jumping on the fact that grooming gangs exist. We should be angry that the police have not done the job they should have. Questions around underfunding, negligence and staffing are legitimate. The heinous crimes should be punished severely. Anyone facilitating, covering up or obstructing should be similarly punished.

I’ve managed to say all of that without the need to mention ethnicity or immigration.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Everyone should be jumping on the fact that grooming gangs exist. We should be angry that the police have not done the job they should have. Questions around underfunding, negligence and staffing are legitimate. The heinous crimes should be punished severely. Anyone facilitating, covering up or obstructing should be similarly punished.

I’ve managed to say all of that without the need to mention ethnicity or immigration.

Why did the police, local council, social services and schools not do their job properly?

You mention underfunding when the report doesn’t mention this and specifically focuses on ethnicity as the motivation for why perpetrators acted as they did and why the authorities did not act in the face of mounting evidence.

It’s because well meaning people did not wish to make observations they deemed impolite.

 

[mmttww]

Enjoying how we roll on here. Call someone an apologist for gangs that raped kids, openly threaten them, infer they're a paedophile themselves, then like their next post and go quiet.

all while no one else calls it out.

Never used Twitter, never really used FB so I think I just got a blast of what it's like if you do, and wander an inch or two off-piste. If this is how we talk to each other now then we're f*cked.

 

[rob9872]

Enjoying how we roll on here. Call someone an apologist for gangs that raped kids, openly threaten them, infer they're a paedophile themselves, then like their next post and go quiet.

all while no one else calls it out.

Never used Twitter, never really used FB so I think I just got a blast of what it's like if you do, and wander an inch or two off-piste. If this is how we talk to each other now then we're f*cked.

Relax, fixtures next week, back to pre-season the week after, new signings, unrealistic expectation and we'll all be back to normal. It's the off-season.

In fact fek it, I might log off for a month so I don't end up embroiled, although this is where I get my celebrity death news!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Relax, fixtures next week, back to pre-season the week after, new signings, unrealistic expectation and we'll all be back to normal. It's the off-season.

In fact fek it, I might log off for a month so I don't end up embroiled, although this is where I get my celebrity death news!

SBT off topic lunacy doesn’t care about what time of the year it is

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Stop tarring whole communities and there is no argument to be had. Still what it looks like you’re doing even there.

What is your proposed solution?

A Danish style approach to immigration, asylum and integration.

In short, if you’re a criminal or not an economically productive migrant, deportation. If the HRA and ECHR prevent this, amending/repeal legislation.

This stuff is not ‘far right’, not only is it in line with majority public opinion, it’s compatible with a progressive country.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A Danish style approach to immigration, asylum and integration.

In short, if you’re a criminal or not an economically productive migrant, deportation. If the HRA and ECHR prevent this, amending/repeal legislation.

This stuff is not ‘far right’, not only is it in line with majority public opinion, it’s compatible with a progressive country.

In practice what does this mean? If an immigrant loses their job the clock starts ticking?

 

[Ian1779]

Why did the police, local council, social services and schools not do their job properly?

You mention underfunding when the report doesn’t mention this and specifically focuses on ethnicity as the motivation for why perpetrators acted as they did and why the authorities did not act in the face of mounting evidence.

It’s because well meaning people did not wish to make observations they deemed impolite.

I don’t know why those services didn’t do their job properly. But i would also ask the same question about what happened to Daniel Pelka. This level of failure and incompetence is not exclusive to this type of crime.

I mentioned underfunding as one of many possible hypotheses, which can often be attributed to failures and negligence. Whether that is justified is another matter.

You’ve said the report cites ethnicity, does it cite immigration?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

In practice what does this mean? If an immigrant loses their job the clock starts ticking?

In theory, that’s how the system works currently. Your visa can be cancelled if you no longer meet the conditions. In practice, this isn’t working as intended because we have issued way more health & social care visas than roles filled.

In Denmark, non-Danish citizens are barred from all benefits and permanent residency until you have to passed a Public Benefit Test. Which assesses your financial contributions to the state. If you fail this test, the deportation procedures are initiated.

With the NHS being taxpayer funded, I don’t think it would be unreasonable for mandating migrants to have comprehensive private healthcare coverage as a condition of a visa.

I don’t know why those services didn’t do their job properly. But i would also ask the same question about what happened to Daniel Pelka. This level of failure and incompetence is not exclusive to this type of crime.

I mentioned underfunding as one of many possible hypotheses, which can often be attributed to failures and negligence. Whether that is justified is another matter.

You’ve said the report cites ethnicity, does it cite immigration?

The report specifically criticised the authorities for its inaction over fears of being labelled racist and ‘raising community tensions’. By this definition, ethnicity is a central focus of the report.

It mentions that they were non-UK residents and in some cases, asylum seekers rather than second generation immigrants. The perpetrators were mostly new arrivals. If this isn’t a damning failure of the immigration system, what is?

 

[chiefdave]

In practice what does this mean?

My suspicion is that when people talk about a danish system what they actually mean is cherry picking the bit they agree with.

I struggle to believe that if we mirrored their system and worked to ensure migrant families weren’t clustered together in certain areas people would be nodding in agreement.

Don’t for a second believe that if, for example, the council said migrant families were being moved from places such as Hillfields and Foleshill and taxpayer money used to house them in Kenilworth and Warwick it would be welcomed.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

My suspicion is that when people talk about a danish system what they actually mean is cherry picking the bit they agree with.

I struggle to believe that if we mirrored their system and worked to ensure migrant families weren’t clustered together in certain areas people would be nodding in agreement.

Don’t for a second believe that if, for example, the council said migrant families were being moved from places such as Hillfields and Foleshill and taxpayer money used to house them in Kenilworth and Warwick it would be welcomed.

With respect, you’re cherry picking.

When discussing Denmark’s system, you only spoke about how their government funds housing for migrants to live in Danish areas. We agree that this isn’t feasible or desirable in the UK context.

Why? The UK’s net migration figure 1997-2024 is in the millions, probably in around Denmark’s total population (5.94 million) for context. That figure isn’t even gross migration where the number is considerably higher. Put simply, the volume of arrivals is too high to support that particularly policy.

That said, what can the UK implement?
- granted of temporary asylum rather than permanent
- tightening family reunion rules
- confiscate valuable of asylum seekers
- a PBT to assess a migrants financial contribution to the treasury
- restrict access to social housing and benefits until PBT certificate is obtained
- deport economically unproductive people and criminals
- suspend the right to apply for asylum for anyone crossing the English Channel (Polish policy for migrants crossing the Polish-Belarusian border).

There’s more options on the table but this is what the public generally wants.