Was our success due to Robins or was it actually Vivash?

[Phoenix5555]

Has Mark Robins had credit for the success we have had when really it should have gone to Vivash and Lawrence? Our performances have gone downhill since they both left and a couple of things have been bugging me.
If after all the good seasons, why has no one come in for Mark Robins from other bigger clubs?
Why was it so hard to get him an assistant / number 2, is it because the better candidates just didn't want to work with him?
His record at the other clubs he managed wasn't great so should we really be upset more about losing Vivash in particular than Robins?
Have we become blindsided by who our success really came from?

Edit - And for clarity, I would have all 3 back as a combination.

 

[hill83]

All of them

 

[glasgowfan]

It was the combination of the two

 

[Nick]

All of them

 

[stupot07]

All of them. They were a team, and a sum of their parts

 

[Deleted member 7943]

Did Brian clough win forest 2 European cups or did Peter taylor .

Honestly some fans really are crazy disrespectful to a club great

 

[Phoenix5555]

I'm not saying Robins wasn't a part of the success, but I'm wondering if Robins was maybe the least important part of the 3

 

[shmmeee]

What no poll?

 

[Nick]

I'm not saying Robins wasn't a part of the success, but I'm wondering if Robins was maybe the least important part of the 3

No because they would all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Deleted member 7943]

I'm not saying Robins wasn't a part of the success, but I'm wondering if Robins was maybe the least important part of the 3

Surely the manager is the main man ?

Having help off an assistant doesn't alter that

 

[napolimp]

What no poll?

Where's @BluePollsForever when you need them.

 

[Phoenix5555]

Did Brian clough win forest 2 European cups or did Peter taylor .

Honestly some fans really are crazy disrespectful to a club great

It's not disrespecting him, it's asking a question. If you could choose who to have back, would you have Robins or Vivash? Personally it would be Vivash everytime.

 

[skybluecam]

Adi (Viveash) has been phenomenal, absolutely fantastic, as has Dennis Lawrence (first team coach) and Aled Williams (goalkeeper coach) – there are only really the four of us on the grass and I step back from that and let them get on with it.

“They paint the pictures and it helps me to manage the club. The club has needed managing, along with chief executive Dave Boddy – there are too many people to mention – and everyone who has been here has played a part.”

From Robins interview with the CT a while ago.

If you’re Doug and reading that you’d be a bit worried when both Lawrence and Viveash left wouldn’t you.

 

[Deleted member 7943]

It's not disrespecting him, it's asking a question. If you could choose who to have back, would you have Robins or Vivash? Personally it would be Vivash everytime.

So using that logic do you attribute our slow starts to adi every season then?

It's insane logic , they were a team and both will have had a huge impact on our last few years

 

[Nick]

It's not disrespecting him, it's asking a question. If you could choose who to have back, would you have Robins or Vivash? Personally it would be Vivash everytime.

Why does everything have to be one or the other all the time?

Personally, I'd see who the next manager is going to be and go from there.

 

[Phoenix5555]

Surely the manager is the main man ?

Having help off an assistant doesn't alter that

And it may well have been this way, but if one of the partnership came up with all the good ideas and the manager can go along with these then maybe the main man was the assistant

 

[Deleted member 7943]

And it may well have been this way, but if one of the partnership came up with all the good ideas and the manager can go along with these then maybe the main man was the assistant

Or maybe they both did incredibly well for the club ? Why try and diminish marks achievements here ? It's weird behaviour

 

[Phoenix5555]

So using that logic do you attribute our slow starts to adi every season then?

It's insane logic , they were a team and both will have had a huge impact on our last few years

Two seasons ago was the pitch issue, last season was a big turn around of players. I don't think anyone would argue against those reasons

 

[Jamesimus]

“Adi Vivash”

 

[Deleted member 7943]

Two seasons ago was the pitch issue, last season was a big turn around of players. I don't think anyone would argue against those reasons

Ah right , best employ adi then rather than search for a new man

 

[Otis]

What no poll?

Here you go. Knock yourself out.

 

[Otis]

Or maybe they both did incredibly well for the club ? Why try and diminish marks achievements here ? It's weird behaviour

Yup. It's like trying to pick holes in a lump of cheese that's already very holey.

 

[Phoenix5555]

Why does everything have to be one or the other all the time?

Personally, I'd see who the next manager is going to be and go from there.

I didn't say it was, but clearly the partnership ended and King backed Robins. I would have done the same at the time, but in hindsight Vivash might have been the more important part of the team

 

[Para1140]

It was the combination of the two

Three

 

[napolimp]

I guess Robins and Viveash were a bit like Simon & Garfunkel, Robins will probably sit down for lunch with him in 20 years time and they'll cry about where it all went wrong.

 

[Phoenix5555]

Ah right , best employ adi then rather than search for a new man

I never insinuated Adi would be my choice of manager, but he was a very good number 2

 

[Deleted member 7943]

I never insinuated Avi would be my choice of manager, but he was a very good number 2

And mark was a very good manager for us ? Not sure still that you have a point

 

[Phoenix5555]

And mark was a very good manager for us ? Not sure still that you have a point

I'm not disagreeing, but asking the question was he only a good manager for us, because he had the team around him that he did?
Now that team has gone, would he still be a good manager for us? He was perfect for us in the circumstances, but those have now changed.
I am asking the question was it actually Vivash who was the key to our success?

 

[TomRad85]

Tbh as much as i've enjoyed a few people getting well and truly humbled i'm still going to give my honest opinion and not double down for the sake of it. I think you have to give more credit to the actual manager surely? Clearly Adi was more important than perhaps even Robins thought and its come back to bite him, hard. Also as much as i think letting him go was 100% the right thing to do i think he's one of the most important managers we've ever had and i hope we do visit the idea of a statue one day. Although i don't expect Doug will be paying for it

 

[Deleted member 7943]

I'm not disagreeing, but asking the question was he only a good manager for us, because he had the team around him that he did?
Now that team has gone, would he still be a good manager for us? He was perfect for us in the circumstances, but those have now changed.
I am asking the question was it actually Vivash who was the key to our success?

And the answer is no

 

[chiefdave]

I would say a combination of everyone involved but that doesn't mean they were irreplaceable

Robins had a 51.5% win percentage in his first spell without Viveash or Lawrence.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

You have to admit that the start of the performances/results going down the toilet coincided with the departure of Lawrence and Viveash, who worked together with Robins to achieve the success that we had in recent years. The appointment of the new coaches has not reversed that. Whether that was the inability of Robins to gel with them, or that Viveash was the tactical genius, or that the three of them worked so well as a team, we'll never know. But if Robins was the driver behind the break-up of the coaching team (as King suggested), he has to bear at least some responsibility for that. He never struck me as an egomaniac, but i didn't know him personally, so i can't judge.

 

[alfielloyd]

If the band was Robins, Viveash and Lawrence, it would be interesting to know if Lawrence understood it was falling apart prior to his departure.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

And the answer is no

The solution to whether that may be correct is how Robins gets on in his next role (presumably without Viveash), hopefully with a patient Board. If he only ever achieves L1 mediocrity, we might have a better idea.

 

[Phoenix5555]

Tbh as much as i've enjoyed a few people getting well and truly humbled i'm still going to give my honest opinion and not double down for the sake of it. I think you have to give more credit to the actual manager surely? Clearly Adi was more important than perhaps even Robins thought and its come back to bite him, hard. Also as much as i think letting him go was 100% the right thing to do i think he's one of the most important managers we've ever had and i hope we do visit the idea of a statue one day. Although i don't expect Doug will be paying for it

I think that is a very fair point. Sometimes the influence of someone isn't fully appreciated until they have gone