Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (6 Viewers)

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David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
hill83 said:
We got in there first so the contract should be honoured. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

www.theguardian.com

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.
 
hill83

hill83

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
CCFCSteve said:
Read what I’ve said, I’m with you on some of those things being investigated. Things change though. Regarding closing borders do watch the documentary and read the SAGE minutes. It was advised against (as was stopping large outdoor gatherings)...they felt it was basically too late. The decision, especially out of context, is obviously horrifically wrong as whilst it wouldn’t have stopped the virus, it would have given us/NHS more time to prepare by slowing spread. However, this was also when Vallance and others felt herd immunity (gradual, not let it rip) might be best solution/course of action - Again if people retained immunity after catching it, it may well have been a viable option (alongside other strands such as protect/shield elderly/higher risk etc). Unfortunately time and science has proved otherwise
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Said many-a-time, got no real issue with how we managed it early on. It's the making the same mistakes further down the line, once we had more information, where I lose synpathy.

Anyway, off to the Covid thread with this ;)
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.
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The EU haven’t even approved it for use yet and as it’s an unlicensed product there at the moment it cannot be imported from elsewhere anyway. There are legitimate biological reasons holding up production of viral vectors in the EU sites. Also seen they are struggling with fulfilling Australia’s orders but it will likely be a genuine primary manufacturing issue.

The UK sites are working and it has emergency approval here hence they can meet the UK demand easily
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Speaking to BBC Breakfast, he admits that "when we look back" on the coronavirus pandemic he is "sure" there are "lessons to be learned" adding he regrets the early restrictions on people attending funerals.

But he says he is "proud" of how the government has "looked after the most vulnerable in society like the homeless and the shielded".

How can anyone be proud of how we have looked after the vulnerable in society!!!!!!!!

Maybe I need some time in bed my heads about to explode
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
hill83 said:
We got in there first so the contract should be honoured. End of story as far as I'm concerned.
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That would be how any other business would work. You go through the orders as recieved. If we ordered first we get delivery first.

Didn't we gamble and place orders way before we knew if it worked and promised to pay even if it didn't?

Of course if I was in the EU and being told there's no jabs to be had as we're on a waiting list I'm sure I'd be demanding something be done, especially if while being told there was none available they were being exported to other countries.

Certainly questions to be asked about how many orders were accepted and more importanly what promises were made about delivery times and how realistic those promises were.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The EU haven’t even approved it for use yet and as it’s an unlicensed product there at the moment it cannot be imported from elsewhere anyway. There are legitimate biological reasons holding up production of viral vectors in the EU sites. Also seen they are struggling with fulfilling Australia’s orders but it will likely be a genuine primary manufacturing issue.

The UK sites are working and it has emergency approval here hence they can meet the UK demand easily
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That's the argument but as I said the EU isn't accepting that.

I'm not saying it's right but as AZ have pulled out of a meeting with the EU scheduled for Wednesday the EU will take some form of action.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
That's the argument but as I said the EU isn't accepting that.

I'm not saying it's right but as AZ have pulled out of a meeting with the EU scheduled for Wednesday the EU will take some form of action.
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The EU’s scientific advisers should know better assuming they have worked in primary manufacture before. It isn’t some cynical ploy by AZ to lose business. It is also still within the remit of any EU state to give them emergency approval before an EU license is granted.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The EU’s scientific advisers should know better assuming they have worked in primary manufacture before. It isn’t some cynical ploy by AZ to lose business. It is also still within the remit of any EU state to give them emergency approval before an EU license is granted.
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AZ shouldn't just flounce away from planned meetings with people who have ponied up 300 million in advance.

The EU is legally allowed to block exports of things.
 
jimmyhillsfanclub

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
The EU have dropped a massive bollock on procurement & approval....... They are now attempting to cover their arse by planning to reduce the use of the AZ vaccine & only use in on under 65s......which is a spin-tastic get-out that even the tories would be proud of.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
And would that give them the vaccines they need? So you can see why the EU is trying to look after the EU.
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You can see why a company is prioritising a market where they already have approval and working production sites over one where it is unclear that it goes beyond a ‘best effort’ agreement. AZ cannot magic wand fix the EU production sites and making threats to the company isn’t going to accelerate the process.

They could try and bully Pfizer into not exporting to the UK, and we could then do the same with our AZ exports. Best to just get the production issues fixed and not start indulging in daft disputes
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
You can see why a company is prioritising a market where they already have approval and working production sites over one where it is unclear that it goes beyond a ‘best effort’ agreement. AZ cannot magic wand fix the EU production sites and making threats to the company isn’t going to accelerate the process.

They could try and bully Pfizer into not exporting to the UK, and we could then do the same with our AZ exports. Best to just get the production issues fixed and not start indulging in daft disputes
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But we lose out more in that as the UK AZ is for the AZ market so we would lose out on Pfizer vaccines.

Even you can see that it is surely better to come to some sort of agreement rather flouncing off like AZ have done.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
And also they don't have to bully anyone, they can legally as has bene pointed just say no vaccines made in the EU ca be exported out the EU
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
But we lose out more in that as the UK AZ is for the AZ market so we would lose out on Pfizer vaccines.

Even you can see that it is surely better to come to some sort of agreement rather flouncing off like AZ have done.
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Even me, unlike you, has worked in primary pharmaceutical manufacture in the past. They aren’t holding back supplies they already have, there’s a problem affecting production. There is no incentive for them not to meet the supply.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Even me, unlike you, has worked in primary pharmaceutical manufacture in the past. They aren’t holding back supplies they already have, there’s a problem affecting production. There is no incentive for them not to meet the supply.
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That is not the argument that the EU is saying.

The EU is saying why when you can supply other markets can you not fulfil our order we paid in cash up front for.

As i said flouncing away like AZ have done today isn't going to help anyone
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
That is not the argument that the EU is saying.

The EU is saying why when you can supply other markets can you not fulfil our order we paid in cash up front for.

As i said flouncing away like AZ have done today isn't going to help anyone
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The EU isn’t the only market they are having trouble supplying.
 
jordan210

jordan210

Well-Known Member
Im sure I read somewhere about an interview with the boss of AZ who said they could pull out of the Eu deal.

It's all going to get a bit messy and isn't helped by the German gutter press. But EU member states will not be happy with the way this is being played out.

Get the popcorn out lads. Gonna be a blockbuster coming up.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
jordan210 said:
Im sure I read somewhere about an interview with the boss of AZ who said they could pull out of the Eu deal.

It's all going to get a bit messy and isn't helped by the German gutter press. But EU member states will not be happy with the way this is being played out.

Get the popcorn out lads. Gonna be a blockbuster coming up.
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The AZ boss argues that there was no signed obligation to fulfil all of the orders, just a ‘best effort’ agreeement. The EU argues the opposite in which case they could easily publish the proof.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.
Click to expand...


David O'Day said:
That is not the argument that the EU is saying.

The EU is saying why when you can supply other markets can you not fulfil our order we paid in cash up front for.

As i said flouncing away like AZ have done today isn't going to help anyone
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The EU's contractual dispute with them does not mean that AZ shouldn't honour its contract with the UK. Two wrongs don't make a
right.

Threatening to use the law to ban exports to third countries is Trumpian, let's be honest.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I think the main difference between pre and post vaccine strategy has been that there’s no Tory backbencher against rapid vaccination. No matter where you stand, whether it’s humanitarian or economic or freedom concerns, mass vaccinations as quickly as possible are the answer.

Also the fact that supplies will have been procured through large existing companies means no chance for the usual cronyism.

The lockdown strategy has been beset by Johnson’s weakness and inability to accept people not liking him and he’s ended up dithering and waiting to the last minute and fudging trying to keep all the lobbyists happy.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The AZ boss argues that there was no signed obligation to fulfil all of the orders, just a ‘best effort’ agreeement. The EU argues the opposite in which case they could easily publish the proof.
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Best effort? They paid 300 million up front which is a pretty valid contract of sale.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
The EU's contractual dispute with them does not mean that AZ shouldn't honour its contract with the UK. Two wrongs don't make a
right.

Threatening to use the law to ban exports to third countries is Trumpian, let's be honest.
Click to expand...

If the shoe was on the other foot then the clamour to ban exports would be deafening which I just find a tad hypocritical.
 
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