George Floyd (2 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

Spot on. There are BAME people I follow on twitter and sometimes they call out something as racist and you think not really you're being a bit sensitive then you look at the actual barrage of disgusting shit they get daily and you think no fucking wonder.
But white people tell them they're wrong!! Fucking brass neck of the cunts.

Very true, then you have people like Earlsdon going one step further saying it’s ‘black privilege’

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

I see this too. Though I have issues with the 'if I say it's prejudiced it's prejudiced' line generally. But he can certainly say 'As a black man it made me feel this way' and people can choose not to want to make him feel that way even if they don't agree it's racist per se.

Dammit I'm torn on this now. Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

It's not totally random either, it's not like he was called a thinking man's crumpet or something. There *is* a way you can see why he would think it racist, so why the hell tell him otherwise?!?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

tbf, if I called someone gammon then, if they hadn't been insulting me initially and they asked me to stop, I would.

Again, why wouldn't I? I can come up with plenty of other insults easily enough.

Exactly, and case in point- I did call people gammon on these very pages, some people got offended, so I stopped. It really ain’t hard to understand.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Reverts back to the simple thing. It may not have been intended as racist, it turned out to be seen as racist, there are obvious reasons why it could be construed as racist... what kind of attitude is it, at that point, to silence the black man and put him back in his box, denying it's racist?!?

So let's say a white guy complains about the term of gammon and finds it racially offensive. He must then also be supported in that because he deems it to be offensive whether it was intended as a political rather than racial slur. Thus if he perceives it as a racial slur, it is a racial slur.

 

[clint van damme]

Very true, then you have people like Earlsdon going one step further saying it’s ‘black privilege’

fucking hell.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

tbf, if I called someone gammon then, if they hadn't been insulting me initially and they asked me to stop, I would.

Again, why wouldn't I? I can come up with plenty of other insults easily enough.

 

[shmmeee]

It's not totally random either, it's not like he was called a thinking man's crumpet or something. There *is* a way you can see why he would think it racist, so why the hell tell him otherwise?!?

I honestly think people like @Nick and @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 want the clarity in their own minds. You've got a legitimate feeling among people that the 'rules' aren't clear and the genuinely don't want to be racist but can't figure out where the line is. So when something like comes up it's less about denying Akinfenwe the agency of deciding he felt racist, and more about trying to clarify something they didn't think was racist. I'm sure there's genuine racists using it for cover too, but the refrain I hear the most is 'we used to say treat everyone the same, simple'.

I think we need a way to both accept people's lived experiences of racism as valid, and give people an out over genuine confusion? I can appreciate though that if you're in the public eye and you give everyone one free racism it'd end up with a lifetime barrage of racism and the racists would take the piss.

As I say, I'm torn on the whole thing. It does feel like 80s/90s anti-racism was a clearer message and as such garnered more support than 2000s/2010s anti-racism and ultimately effectiveness is what matters if we're going to change.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I honestly think people like @Nick and @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 want the clarity in their own minds. You've got a legitimate feeling among people that the 'rules' aren't clear and the genuinely don't want to be racist but can't figure out where the line is. So when something like comes up it's less about denying Akinfenwe the agency of deciding he felt racist, and more about trying to clarify something they didn't think was racist. I'm sure there's genuine racists using it for cover too, but the refrain I hear the most is 'we used to say treat everyone the same, simple'.

I think we need a way to both accept people's lived experiences of racism as valid, and give people an out over genuine confusion? I can appreciate though that if you're in the public eye and you give everyone one free racism it'd end up with a lifetime barrage of racism and the racists would take the piss.

As I say, I'm torn on the whole thing. It does feel like 80s/90s anti-racism was a clearer message and as such garnered more support than 2000s/2010s anti-racism and ultimately effectiveness is what matters if we're going to change.

You know what, Nick infuriates me but I actually quite like him. His brain works very differently to mine but he's genuine. Some others, however... are sly, and devious, try to skew others towards their paranoid beliefs and motives, and are rather selective in what they choose to condemn while trying to deflect onto others, claiming they do the same and twisting perception.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You know what, Nick infuriates me but I actually quite like him. His brain works very differently to mine but he's genuine. Some others, however... are sly, and devious, try to skew others towards their paranoid beliefs and motives, and are rather selective in what they choose to condemn while trying to deflect onto others, claiming they do the same and twisting perception.

You know I was going to put something similar, but held back as I had a sneaky feeling you’d show up and do it for me more eloquently

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe I've not been paying attention. I'm not on the ESB is a racist train just yet.

But maybe I've a naive pussy who is too scared to call a spade a spade and wants to see the best in everyone?

I've got a lot of friends with similar views, only one who I would call an outright racist, the rest I'd say are just 'un PC' edgelords, but wouldn't condone actual racism if confronted with it.

 

[ccfc92]

Came across the CD scam when I was in NYC, never saw race come up once.


No black gammons are there? I mean I use it and find it funny. But it’s specifically about their skin colour.

Different when it’s white on white though. I would never call as Asian lad a bounty bar, But hear it all the time between Asian lads.

Is gammon our N word?

Maybe they should reclaim it too. Sup ma gammon?

(this is what happens when I can’t sleep)

Happened most/every time for me. Opening line was "Shake a black man's hand". If you didn't say anything or walked on, "Are you racist?" quickly followed.

No mate, I just don't go round shaking random people's hands.

 

[ccfc92]

I’ve never, ever heard anyone call someone a pig due to their skin colour, you are either lying or just plain stupid.

Or either you're so ignorant, you refuse to see it.

I tell you what, every time I see it on Twitter and other places, I'll screenshot it just for you

 

[Nick]

You know what, Nick infuriates me but I actually quite like him. His brain works very differently to mine but he's genuine. Some others, however... are sly, and devious, try to skew others towards their paranoid beliefs and motives, and are rather selective in what they choose to condemn while trying to deflect onto others, claiming they do the same and twisting perception.

I am just trying to figure things out. There has to be lines and points where people say "you know what, that's not racist. Stop being a twat."

It is a bit like if a man brushes past a woman by accident on a packed train for example. Make a big fuss about sexual assault and all it does is detract from victims of sexual assault further.

Akinfenwa will have sadly had racist abuse in his career / life, there's no need to try to go deep to make something racist that may not have been because of BLM. All that does to me, is make it look like a "moment" where everybody wants to be part of it. He doesn't need to say things like that (after calling himself it anyway) to make a point about racism. Just be open, honest and hard hitting and that's what people will see.

It's the same point I have made about SISU, they have been cunts enough over the years. If people make stuff up that they haven't done it then makes it easy to bat those away.

 

[shmmeee]

Happened most/every time for me. Opening line was "Shake a black man's hand". If you didn't say anything or walked on, "Are you racist?" quickly followed.

No mate, I just don't go round shaking random people's hands.

This was 8 years ago now, I could see with recent events things might have changed. The scammers and street 'entertainers' in NYC are ridiculous.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I really think it is low that some people on here are coming out and trying to say I'm racist. I would assume these are actually white people deciding to take issue with the fact that I have a slightly different opinion to them.

Just to clarify, I am absolutely not racist in any way shape or form, and I shouldn't have to even say it. Do I have issues with people playing the race card at every opportunity which dilutes the real issue with racism? Yes. Do I think some communities in the UK behave poorly compared to others for various reasons up for debate? Yes. Does that mean I treat everyone differently? Absolutely not. I will judge someone as the person they are and how kind they are, not on their size, height, skin colour, background or absolutely anything fucking else.

Clint for example has blocked me, because I made quite an unpopular post about Shamima Begum. He called me a right wing racist. It's nonsense. I have called out genuine racism several times in my life and I get really upset by it, particularly recently on twitter some of the behaviour towards McGoldrick etc. I just don't like it when there seems to be double standards or people blowing things out or proportion and looking to find things that are racist. It creates a situation where people are shit scared to say something and therefore does not promote equality (hence my slightly tongue in cheek comment about black privilege when people were getting away with committing crimes in some people's eyes because they had been unfairly targeted).

As I said before, some of the people that have got massively upset with what I have been saying haven't really been able to come up with any counter-points. It is easier to play the 'I'm offended, you're a racist' argument than actually admit there are slightly different view points which might actually have some sense to them.

I cannot believe I have actually had to write this, but there you go. I might be slightly close to the bone sometimes and have slightly different opinions, but never fucking call me a racist.

 

[clint van damme]

Akinfenwa will have sadly had racist abuse in his career / life, there's no need to try to go deep to make something racist that may not have been because of BLM. All that does to me, is make it look like a "moment" where everybody wants to be part of it. He doesn't need to say things like that (after calling himself it anyway) to make a point about racism. Just be open, honest and hard hitting and that's what people will see.

It's the same point I have made about SISU, they have been cunts enough over the years. If people make stuff up that they haven't done it then makes it easy to bat those away.

and if he sees racism where there is none that's probably why, you should be able to see his point of view if he's had to put up with this shit all his life. See my post 3949 on previous page.

 

[ccfc92]

This was 8 years ago now, I could see with recent events things might have changed. The scammers and street 'entertainers' in NYC are ridiculous.

Yeah, this was last year.

Agreed, sometimes you just want to go for a walk without being pestered by anyone.

 

[Nick]

and if he sees racism where there is none that's probably why, you should be able to see his point of view if he's had to put up with this shit all his life. See my post 3949 on previous page.

If he sees something that he described himself as as racist then he should probably think before he posts / says things himself.

 

[clint van damme]

Yeah, this was last year.

Agreed, sometimes you just want to go for a walk without being pestered by anyone.

where abouts? Never had any hassle in New York personally.

edit - I did once, but that was in Bedford Stuyestant and I made a big error ending up there.

 

[clint van damme]

If he sees something that he described himself as as racist then he should probably think before he posts / says things himself.

but you're saying hes probably experienced racism all his life and then telling him he's dealing with it incorrectly. Do you not realise how that sounds?

 

[shmmeee]

where abouts? Never had any hassle in New York personally.

Tourist spots I found, Times Square especially. My ex bought a CD in the CD scam, which I looked up and found out is a common scam in NYC.

Love the city though, people were great, amazing place to walk around, like being in a movie set.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Do I have issues with people playing the race card at every opportunity which dilutes the real issue with racism?

Cool, then you can finally explain to me where the kid on the bike in the video was playing the race card? Also how does you entering the conversation saying 'Why am I being made to feel guilty for being white?" not constitute playing the race card?

 

[Nick]

but you're saying hes probably experienced racism all his life and then telling him he's dealing with it incorrectly. Do you not realise how that sounds?

So if somebody has experienced racism in the past, it gives them free reign to then say anybody they want is racist even though they may not be?

I am all for calling out racism, not so much when it's a very long stretch to make something racist when it may well not be.

 

[hill83]

Cool, then you can finally explain to me where the kid on the bike in the video was playing the race card? Also how does you entering the conversation saying 'Why am I being made to feel guilty for being white?" not constitute playing the race card?

Been out of this thread for ages as it’s a fucking joke. But race card playing time for me.

As the only non white bloke in here I think he is and have also blocked him. So read into that whatever you want.

 

[ccfc92]

where abouts? Never had any hassle in New York personally.

edit - I did once, but that was in Bedford Stuyestant and I made a big error ending up there.

This normally happened around 8th or Broadway, around W 50th street.

 

[clint van damme]

So if somebody has experienced racism in the past, it gives them free reign to then say anybody they want is racist even though they may not be?

I am all for calling out racism, not so much when it's a very long stretch to make something racist when it may well not be.

No it doesn't. But if they're sensitive about the issue and maybe over reacted I'll give them a pass which is what I think happened in this case.
I've haven't been subjected to racist abuse throughout my life so I'm not going to tell people who have how they should react.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Cool, then you can finally explain to me where the kid on the bike in the video was playing the race card? Also how does you entering the conversation saying 'Why am I being made to feel guilty for being white?" not constitute playing the race card?

The kid on the bike video? I don't think I ever specifically said he was playing the race card did I? I was talking more about the athlete.

And yes, my thoughts are that BLM has done more to whip up racial tension that it has done to fight it. There was a lot of people saying 'silence is violence' and all that kind of shit, directly aimed at white people. Also trying to make out that we should feel guilt about what our ancestors did. What is wrong in me saying that?

I don't think casual racists are going to be educated successfully if people say to them that they should feel guilty about their skin colour. Surely the argument should be that everyone is equal.

 

[ajsccfc]

One thing I bear in mind with Akinfenwa (and pretty much every black player directly contactable on social media) is the sheer amount of horrific and unquestionable racist abuse they get sent on a regular basis by all these anonymous accounts, that kind of thing must absolutely grind you down and make you more than a little sensitive to any comment and comparison made about you, however misconstrued or innocent it can be. I don't think anyone would willingly play the 'race card' for fun or attention, because it really doesn't seem much fun getting that kind of attention.

 

[Nick]

No it doesn't. But if they're sensitive about the issue and maybe over reacted I'll give them a pass which is what I think happened in this case.
I've haven't been subjected to racist abuse throughout my life so I'm not going to tell people who have how they should react.

It is the same with people getting arrested now "Get off my neck" when they have a knee on the side of their head for being a c**t.

It all detracts from the actual bad coppers and makes good coppers more wary of being able to do their jobs as they have to make decisions of the backlash.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Been out of this thread for ages as it’s a fucking joke. But race card playing time for me.

As the only non white bloke in here I think he is and have also blocked him. So read into that whatever you want.

Incredible. What have I said that is racist? I'll happily apologise if I ever have said something which discriminates towards someone based on their colour. I'll wait.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The kid on the bike video? I don't think I ever specifically said he was playing the race card did I? I was talking more about the athlete.

And yes, my thoughts are that BLM has done more to whip up racial tension that it has done to fight it. There was a lot of people saying 'silence is violence' and all that kind of shit, directly aimed at white people. Also trying to make out that we should feel guilt about what our ancestors did. What is wrong in me saying that?

I don't think casual racists are going to be educated successfully if people say to them that they should feel guilty about their skin colour. Surely the argument should be that everyone is equal.

“The athlete, the guy not paying for the train ticket, and the guy on the bike. All of them have behaved incorrectly and then played the race card.”

 

[Nick]

One thing I bear in mind with Akinfenwa (and pretty much every black player directly contactable on social media) is the sheer amount of horrific and unquestionable racist abuse they get sent on a regular basis by all these anonymous accounts, that kind of thing must absolutely grind you down and make you more than a little sensitive to any comment and comparison made about you, however misconstrued or innocent it can be. I don't think anyone would willingly play the 'race card' for fun or attention, because it really doesn't seem much fun getting that kind of attention.

Totally agree with that as well. 12 year olds thinking they can send banana images and stuff on social media.

Again this can do with the "can do no wrong" attitude nowadays. Police turn up at the door and a lot of parents will say their kid is an angel, their account was hacked, they would never do it again etc.

If I had somebody knock at my door saying I was giving out racist abuse at 12, I would be absolutely shit scared of the consequences. Safe to say my parents would have been backing me. If I was caught with a knife, it would have been the same thing.

If the school had rang my parents for me being a dick, I'd be petrified about going home because I knew shit was going off. Now I have a daughter of school age I have seen parents standing and shouting at teachers saying their little c**t kids have done nothing wrong.

Nowadays authorities, schools and police etc have that barrier of parents who will do everything and anything rather than admit their kid was being a c**t and deal with the issue. The kid then sees this and absolutely rinses it for all it's worth thinking they are untouchable.

Again, that isn't a "race" or a "black" thing. It is a generational thing where some of these kids are growing up thinking they are untouchable.

Imagine before social media, walking up to a black bloke who's about 18 stone of muscle in the street and throwing a banana at him. Absolutely fuck that, in my mind you are waking up in hospital and quite rightly too. Same applies to social media, if somebody is being a racist c**t thinking they can be then it's a shame if somebody finds out where they live and pay them a visit.

(Thats not saying i would say the same to a 10 stone, skinny black man but it's just the point about how these little pricks give it loads because it is social media and think they are invincible).

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

“The athlete, the guy not paying for the train ticket, and the guy on the bike. All of them have behaved incorrectly and then played the race card.”

Ok, let me rephrase it slightly.

"The athlete, the guy not paying for the train ticket, and the guy on the bike. All of them have behaved incorrectly and then played the race card, apart from the guy on the bike where in the comment section of the video people were pointing out the driver reacted badly because the guy being a prick on the bike was black and played the race card on his behalf".

When you are arguing points like that and trying to initiate I am racist because of it, then perhaps it is not me that is the problem.

 

[ajsccfc]

Totally agree with that as well. 12 year olds thinking they can send banana images and stuff on social media.

Again this can do with the "can do no wrong" attitude nowadays. Police turn up at the door and a lot of parents will say their kid is an angel, their account was hacked, they would never do it again etc.

If I had somebody knock at my door saying I was giving out racist abuse at 12, I would be absolutely shit scared of the consequences. Safe to say my parents would have been backing me. If I was caught with a knife, it would have been the same thing.

If the school had rang my parents for me being a dick, I'd be petrified about going home because I knew shit was going off. Now I have a daughter of school age I have seen parents standing and shouting at teachers saying their little c**t kids have done nothing wrong.

Nowadays authorities, schools and police etc have that barrier of parents who will do everything and anything rather than admit their kid was being a c**t and deal with the issue. The kid then sees this and absolutely rinses it for all it's worth thinking they are untouchable.

It'll never happen, but social media accounts being legally linked to someone's identity would change society for the better overnight

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It'll never happen, but social media accounts being legally linked to someone's identity would change society for the better overnight

Couldn't agree more with that. Twitter seems to be the biggest cesspit, but I have seen it in quite a few places. I saw a video once of someone that had been racially abused on twitter track down the person that posted the unsavoury comment and film them being confronted and told them to explain their actions. They absolutely shit themselves and were just shown up to be the pathetic human being they were.