George Floyd (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

Nah you’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick here.

Gammon a) doesn’t apply to all white people and b) is about a complexion you get from a lifestyle not a race you are born with.

It’s like calling Trump an umpa lumpa isn’t racist. Or my very pale mate Casper isn’t racist. Or calling someone “freckles” isn’t racist. They aren’t races.

But calling a white person Casper, does that make it OK to reference the darkness of somebody's skin?

Obviously, between mates is completely different when giving each other shit.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It's entirely to do with race, because it is white people turning read.

This is the thing, you can't have "everything is racist" in one direction and "it's nothing to do with race" when the coin is flipped.

Of course it is to do with race.

This is exactly spot on. Same with Akinfenwa. When he says it it's not about race but when someone else does we will decide for them that they are racist.

There are some right idiots on this thread.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Nah you’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick here.

Gammon a) doesn’t apply to all white people and b) is about a complexion you get from a lifestyle not a race you are born with.

It’s like calling Trump an umpa lumpa isn’t racist. Or my very pale mate Casper isn’t racist. Or calling someone “freckles” isn’t racist. They aren’t races.

I'm not being funny, but a water buffalo isn't a race either.

It can't be one rule for one and one for another.

 

[Skybluefaz]

This is exactly spot on. Same with Akinfenwa. When he says it it's not about race but when someone else does we will decide for them that they are racist.

There are some right idiots on this thread.

Do you think it was about race when a Cov fan called him a black prick after the area final? Akinfenwa didn't use the best example with this whole buffalo thing and I think he said in his statement he himself didn't know if it was said with racist intent. I think he was just trying to make a stand. The guy I'm sure has suffered enough racist abuse over the years to be vocal about it.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm not being funny, but a water buffalo isn't a race either.

It can't be one rule for one and one for another.

It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)

I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.

 

[Nick]

Do you think it was about race when a Cov fan called him a black prick after the area final? Akinfenwa didn't use the best example with this whole buffalo thing and I think he said in his statement he himself didn't know if it was said with racist intent. I think he was just trying to make a stand. The guy I'm sure has suffered enough racist abuse over the years to be vocal about it.

That's the thing, point out the actual racism.

Don't go to town about something that he didn't even hear that may not have been racist that he had pretty much called himself. It just covers up the actual racism doesn't it?

 

[Nick]

It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)

I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.

Not all black people are the size of a water buffalo though, to be fair? Just like not all white people are gammons but it is referencing their skin colour and how it can change to be red?

 

[Skybluefaz]

But calling a white person Casper, does that make it OK to reference the darkness of somebody's skin?

Obviously, between mates is completely different when giving each other shit.

Kind of getting into that Bernardo Silva/Mendy territory when Silva sent the image of the black kid cartoon and said it looked like him and got charged for racism by the FA. I don't personally think that was an act of racism by Silva. Context is important, shouting out something about the appearance of some randomers skin, black, white or other is not ok in my view.

 

[Nick]

Kind of getting into that Bernardo Silva/Mendy territory when Silva sent the image of the black kid cartoon and said it looked like him and got charged for racism by the FA. I don't personally think that was an act of racism by Silva. Context is important, shouting out something about the appearance of some randomers skin, black, white or other is not ok in my view.

Yeah exactly, you have explained it better than I could have.

Not everything is instantly racist all of the time but some people want to make it about that. That then dilutes the actual racism that obviously does occur.

If everybody starts trying to go down rabbitholes for an hour on why something is racist and have to have some random tedious link then it just may be that it's not being racist.

 

[Skybluefaz]

That's the thing, point out the actual racism.

Don't go to town about something that he didn't even hear that may not have been racist that he had pretty much called himself. It just covers up the actual racism doesn't it?

Yeah, I don't disagree with you on that particularly. I think he was trying to make a stand with something that can be interpreted in different ways but he was doing it because of the backdrop of BLM and I think he had good intentions but it wasn't really the best example. It doesn't mean he hasn't suffered really bad racist discrimination in the past and because of that he probably feels there was some racist motivation behind the buffalo thing.

 

[Grendel]

It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)

I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.

I doubt Andi Peters would be compared to a water buffalo

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I don't disagree with you on that particularly. I think he was trying to make a stand with something that can be interpreted in different ways but he was doing it because of the backdrop of BLM and I think he had good intentions but it wasn't really the best example. It doesn't mean he hasn't suffered really bad racist discrimination in the past and because of that he probably feels there was some racist motivation behind the buffalo thing.

He would have been better off just talking about his experiences though? Like Robbie Earle did.

 

[Nick]

I doubt Andi Peters would be compared to a water buffalo

To be fair, he has got pretty hench. Some arms on him.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Yeah exactly, you have explained it better than I could have.

Not everything is instantly racist all of the time but some people want to make it about that. That then dilutes the actual racism that obviously does occur.

If everybody starts trying to go down rabbitholes for an hour on why something is racist and have to have some random tedious link then it just may be that it's not being racist.

I think Silva tweeted it though and someone is gonna see it and get offended. The world has changed in that sense. You need a pretty good filter to pick out the weirdos and wronguns nowadays.

 

[Skybluefaz]

He would have been better off just talking about his experiences though? Like Robbie Earle did.

Yeah, he mentioned a really bad time he suffered when playing in Lithuania. Should've probably spoke about that.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, he mentioned a really bad time he suffered when playing in Lithuania. Should've probably spoke about that.

Fucking hell yeah, I am probably being racist by saying I can't imagine Lithuania being a great place for things like that years ago.

It's the powerful shit like that which will get people thinking.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Do you think it was about race when a Cov fan called him a black prick after the area final? Akinfenwa didn't use the best example with this whole buffalo thing and I think he said in his statement he himself didn't know if it was said with racist intent. I think he was just trying to make a stand. The guy I'm sure has suffered enough racist abuse over the years to be vocal about it.

Why is it always that when the argument has been lost that some random shit gets thrown in? Yes, calling him a black prick is racist, but that has nothing to do with the water buffalo analogy, or anything to do with the general argument that it's one rule for one and one for another.

 

[ajsccfc]

Andi Peters has barely aged a day since the broom cupboard, he's going to be in his 80s and the most you'd be able to tell is a slight fleck of grey around the temples. Sickening really

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

no I don’t think so, a gammon (at least to my understanding) is more generally prejudiced about most things- climate change, sexual orientation, the indisputable greatness of Britain, obsessed with the war even though none of them lifted a finger, dislike of immigrants and distrust of foreigners, often daily mail/ express readers, pro brexit, generally 50 plus- look at CVDs avatar and you’ll see plenty of ‘em

you wouldn’t immediately call someone a gammon if they were a racist, you’d call them a racist- a gammon wants to go back to the good old days of the Empire and hates anything which even mildly disputes their way of viewing the world, which is based on how things used to be & incredibly insular.

I don’t use the word any more as obviously it was offending a few people

Gammon most definitely is based around race. It's a term used for white men that go pink with rage at almost anything, esp stuff considered PC. So it's most definitely a term with racial connotations.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Fucking hell yeah, I am probably being racist by saying I can't imagine Lithuania being a great place for things like that years ago.
It's the powerful shit like that which will get people thinking.

It's definitely not racist to say you can't imagine it. That is what I recognise though as my white privilege i.e. the ability to go and play football in eastern europe and not suffer racist abuse. Of course the fact I was shit at football meant that was never a possibility. That doesn't equate to saying white people should feel guilty. Not all white people are racist or responsible for it. As I get older I feel more responsible for calling it out. Football to an extent has done that, my lads team is half white half black or mixed race. We had one really talented black player, the amount of shit that lad got from opposition coaches was ridiculous. At under 8s. He is a big lad for his age, so most of the time it was stuff like 'he must be about 14' but to see the genuine bitterness and anger from some of the guys it genuinely broke my heart, fucking 7 year old kids trying to have fun playing football. We have a white lad who is a similar size who has never had those comments. Am I making some assumptions? Yes. I'd love to be wrong. Luckily/unluckily for us the lad is now in Villa's academy so hopefully in a more professional environment he can just play and learn without getting shit from wankers at the weekend.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

it's not a comment on white people, it's a comment on a certain type of person, same as Karen.
It's not a trope that tarnishes the whole race, blacks are lazy, Jews control the banks etc.
Same as I wouldn't say roadman is racist as relates to a certain sort of person who is usually black but not everyone who is black.

It is most definitely linked to race - it specifically denotes pink skin going red on the outside. That's why gammon is used, not say beef or lamb which is darker.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Skin which changes due to absurdly angry reactions. It’s nothing to do with race. I can’t understand how this needs explaining.

Yes - skin which changes from pink to red.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Why is it always that when the argument has been lost that some random shit gets thrown in? Yes, calling him a black prick is racist, but that has nothing to do with the water buffalo analogy, or anything to do with the general argument that it's one rule for one and one for another.

It's not random shit though is it? It's just one example of some of the racist shit he's suffered in the past. I think, he has used a bad example to make the point with the buffalo shit, I've already explained that.

 

[clint van damme]

It is most definitely linked to race - it specifically denotes pink skin going red on the outside. That's why gammon is used, not say beef or lamb which is darker.

it's not racist, same as snowflake isn't. It's about attitude.
You could have identical twins with different political outlooks and one could be a gammon and one could be a snowflake.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It is most definitely linked to race - it specifically denotes pink skin going red on the outside. That's why gammon is used, not say beef or lamb which is darker.

tbf, if I called someone gammon then, if they hadn't been insulting me initially and they asked me to stop, I would.

Again, why wouldn't I? I can come up with plenty of other insults easily enough.

 

[clint van damme]

It's not random shit though is it? It's just one example of some of the racist shit he's suffered in the past. I think, he has used a bad example to make the point with the buffalo shit, I've already explained that.

Spot on. There are BAME people I follow on twitter and sometimes they call out something as racist and you think not really you're being a bit sensitive then you look at the actual barrage of disgusting shit they get daily and you think no fucking wonder.
But white people tell them they're wrong!! Fucking brass neck of the cunts.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's not. Water buffalo is an insult based on being black. All black people are black. Not all white people are Gammons. It's more like 'chav' or Karen in that it refers to an attitude mostly found in one race, but I could see an asian or black person being called a gammon if they displayed the same attitudes (though honestly not sure I've ever seen a black gammon, maybe a certain type of old asian man?)

I'd argue that 'roadman' isn't racist, even though it generally refers to black people.

Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

As I get older I feel more responsible for calling it out.

Yeah, I remember an Asian friend of mine coming back from the bar furious, because somebody had said something he took offence at. Me and his other mate calmed him down, pointing out it was a minority, and that most people didn't care what colour he was, don't let it get to him etc.

I wish, I'd gone up with him and told the bloke he was out of order. Might not have gone well(!) but he deserved at least a polite acknowledgement what he had said had caused offence. He may not have meant it, he may have apologied... but he'd offended a mate, and I'd done nothing about it. All I'd said was true, but it wasn't showing the support my mate deserved, because how could I feel what he was?

 

[clint van damme]

Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.

and you might be right but see my last post, maybe that's the reason he reacted like that.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.

Reverts back to the simple thing. It may not have been intended as racist, it turned out to be seen as racist, there are obvious reasons why it could be construed as racist... what kind of attitude is it, at that point, to silence the black man and put him back in his box, denying it's racist?!?

 

[shmmeee]

I doubt Andi Peters would be compared to a water buffalo

Personally I think the buffalo was based on size, not its colour. Same as being referred to as an ox.

Yeah TBF on reflection I think that's probably right. It's about being big not black. I do agree that he's probably just had enough and it just happened the most recent thing wasn't the clearest cut.

 

[shmmeee]

Reverts back to the simple thing. It may not have been intended as racist, it turned out to be seen as racist, there are obvious reasons why it could be construed as racist... what kind of attitude is it, at that point, to silence the black man and put him back in his box, denying it's racist?!?

I see this too. Though I have issues with the 'if I say it's prejudiced it's prejudiced' line generally. But he can certainly say 'As a black man it made me feel this way' and people can choose not to want to make him feel that way even if they don't agree it's racist per se.

Dammit I'm torn on this now. Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

it's not racist, same as snowflake isn't. It's about attitude.
You could have identical twins with different political outlooks and one could be a gammon and one could be a snowflake.

Have you head a black right winger called gammon?

It is mainly a political right/left thing, but it then specifically targets the white right wingers. It definitely has racial connotations - why use gammon otherwise? It was chosen specifically because of the colour of the meat. Which is pink.

 

[clint van damme]

Have you head a black right winger called gammon?

It is mainly a political right/left thing, but it then specifically targets the white right wingers. It definitely has racial connotations - why use gammon otherwise? It was chosen specifically because of the colour of the meat. Which is pink.

if I heard a ranting black gammon I'd call him a gammon. Do you know any black people who are demanding we drop a nuclear bomb on anyone and I 'll prove it.

 

[djr8369]

Have you head a black right winger called gammon?

It is mainly a political right/left thing, but it then specifically targets the white right wingers. It definitely has racial connotations - why use gammon otherwise? It was chosen specifically because of the colour of the meat. Which is pink.

Yes it was. Still not racism.