the housing market

[clint van damme]

I agree. This is all a reaction to being shut in for the last 4 months. Once the job situation kicks in in a year's time that's when the housing market will stall.

But the market you buy in is the market you sell in so if you're looking to change family home then the removal of stamp duty is a big incentive.
Definitely worth waiting if your an investor

 

[mrtrench]

But the market you buy in is the market you sell in so if you're looking to change family home then the removal of stamp duty is a big incentive.
Definitely worth waiting if your an investor

Up to a point, Lord Copper. If you are upgrading it's best to buy in a repressed market as (assuming a parallel shift) the percentage discount in the bigger house is bigger in cash terms than the discount on your own. Assuming you can sell.

The opposite is true if you're downsizing.

 

[mrtrench]

Can I make a point about stamp duty without this becoming another party political or ideological thread? I make no point on taxation as a whole or how high tax should be...

I think that stamp duty is a stupid tax. People need to move for all sorts of reasons and it's expensive enough an exercise without stamp duty. The government should cancel it and compensate by increasing income tax or similar - there should not be a disincentive to moving for work elsewhere or for increasing or decreasing your family size.

And temporary cuts in stamp duty are the most stupid of all. It creates a temporary sugar rush and houses get more expensive. And then a depression once it's over. I understand why it's been done (moves money around and also creates a retail boom as people buy new curtains etc.) but I don't agree with it.

 

[clint van damme]

Up to a point, Lord Copper. If you are upgrading it's best to buy in a repressed market as (assuming a parallel shift) the percentage discount in the bigger house is bigger in cash terms than the discount on your own. Assuming you can sell.

The opposite is true if you're downsizing.

But the removal of stamp duty changes the dynamic of that. Obviously you need to work out which is going to be more beneficial to you personally.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We bought our house a year ago with 5 years of fixed interest which seemed a good idea at the time but now seems we’ll be paying over the odds for a good while.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The government should cancel it and compensate by increasing income tax or similar -

tbf, there are many taxes I think should be scrapped for income tax, as it's easier to administer if nothing else!

Not averse to stamp duty as such (you can afford a more expensive house, you can afford the tax and, if it slows down moving so communities become embedded and established, isn't that a good thing in many ways?) but do entirely agree that getting rid of it temporarily isn't overly helpful.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We bought our house a year ago with 5 years of fixed interest which seemed a good idea at the time but now seems we’ll be paying over the odds for a good while.

Don't understimate the value of knowing exactly what your outgoing will be!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don't understimate the value of knowing exactly what your outgoing will be!

That is why we got it and it has helped a lot with budgeting. It’s just a bit of a shame that the interest went against us

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Can I make a point about stamp duty without this becoming another party political or ideological thread? I make no point on taxation as a whole or how high tax should be...

I think that stamp duty is a stupid tax. People need to move for all sorts of reasons and it's expensive enough an exercise without stamp duty. The government should cancel it and compensate by increasing income tax or similar - there should not be a disincentive to moving for work elsewhere or for increasing or decreasing your family size.

And temporary cuts in stamp duty are the most stupid of all. It creates a temporary sugar rush and houses get more expensive. And then a depression once it's over. I understand why it's been done (moves money around and also creates a retail boom as people buy new curtains etc.) but I don't agree with it.

I agree about using a property as your main home. It's an 'essential' and so tax so be minimal if any at all.

There needs to be a skewing of the market in favour of first homes against BTL/second homes which tax should cover but it'd be so difficult to police. Second homes would be bought in the names of spouses/children. Rentals would just pass the cost on to the tenants or also put it in family members names to avoid the tax. And those that have the money to do those things would also have the money to employ people to either avoid it or defend them.

 

[Marty]

That is potentially true but with current bank support, long term low interest rates forecast and an ability to have 30-35 year terms now at 4-7 time multiples with some lenders coupled to a greater level of equity held then I don’t think you will see crashes and reductions like previous recessions due to the above where the circumstances were not the same.

If you can afford to buy now and your employment is good then it’s not an asset or liability and not worth waiting for increases/decreases, it’s a place to live that’s your own (technically the lenders) and that’s what matters

All valid points, interest rates won't rise for the foreseeable, I agree but even with that, you have to factor in defaults, for which American banks have been preparing for a worst case scenario of 25% unemployment/defaults, with 11% unemployment/defaults as best case (they initially estimated 7% best case and 14% worst case). The realities haven't hit home yet for most, they don't realize that as soon as this furlough scheme ends, they're done, they have no job, no income, but the bills still need paying. The problem potentially multiply's with BTL landlords.

In 12 months time, I currently can't see past anything other then a complete meltdown of the economy and housing market.

 

[shmmeee]

OK this is the best thread for this. Sorry if it’s off topic too much.

I’ve had an offer accepted and put a mortgage application in earlier in the week. However I’ve just had the seller of a house I love come back to me andsay they’d now accept my offer as their sale has fallen through.

What’s the implications on switching house at this point? I’m still deciding which I like more, but feel I should go through with the one I’ve started, that’s just silly right?? Can you progress purchases on two houses (obviously means paying for two surveys at least) and then pull out of one at the last minute? Is that a dick move? Should I care?

 

[mrtrench]

There needs to be a skewing of the market in favour of first homes against BTL/second homes which tax should cover but it'd be so difficult to police. Second homes would be bought in the names of spouses/children. Rentals would just pass the cost on to the tenants or also put it in family members names to avoid the tax. And those that have the money to do those things would also have the money to employ people to either avoid it or defend them.

I disagree with you but not because I don't think landlords shouldn't pay tax. However I'm not going to comment further as this would lead us down the economics/ideology route.

 

[mrtrench]

OK this is the best thread for this. Sorry if it’s off topic too much.

I’ve had an offer accepted and put a mortgage application in earlier in the week. However I’ve just had the seller of a house I love come back to me andsay they’d now accept my offer as their sale has fallen through.

What’s the implications on switching house at this point? I’m still deciding which I like more, but feel I should go through with the one I’ve started, that’s just silly right?? Can you progress purchases on two houses (obviously means paying for two surveys at least) and then pull out of one at the last minute? Is that a dick move? Should I care?

I don't think it's silly to stick to your word - I would do the same. However there are no legal requirements to paying for two surveys as far as I know. I doubt that the estate agent would let you lead along their clients by pretending that you might buy both though.

 

[shmmeee]

I don't think it's silly to stick to your word - I would do the same. However there are no legal requirements to paying for two surveys as far as I know. I doubt that the estate agent would let you lead along their clients by pretending that you might buy both though.

Well that’s it. It’s two different agents so neither would know really. I did really like this other house though and don’t want to buy somewhere and live in it for years just because I’m a nice guy lol!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

OK this is the best thread for this. Sorry if it’s off topic too much.

I’ve had an offer accepted and put a mortgage application in earlier in the week. However I’ve just had the seller of a house I love come back to me andsay they’d now accept my offer as their sale has fallen through.

What’s the implications on switching house at this point? I’m still deciding which I like more, but feel I should go through with the one I’ve started, that’s just silly right?? Can you progress purchases on two houses (obviously means paying for two surveys at least) and then pull out of one at the last minute? Is that a dick move? Should I care?

If you're going to change, change. At least early it's just life, and circumstance doing that. Stringing them along would cost them money too, and potentially wreck their move. That'd be the act of an utter shyster.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

OK this is the best thread for this. Sorry if it’s off topic too much.

I’ve had an offer accepted and put a mortgage application in earlier in the week. However I’ve just had the seller of a house I love come back to me andsay they’d now accept my offer as their sale has fallen through.

What’s the implications on switching house at this point? I’m still deciding which I like more, but feel I should go through with the one I’ve started, that’s just silly right?? Can you progress purchases on two houses (obviously means paying for two surveys at least) and then pull out of one at the last minute? Is that a dick move? Should I care?

If you really like the other place more go for it instead. It's a long term decision you'll be living in for years so ultimately it has to be what will make you happy rather than what you feel to be a moral obligation. If you go through with the current one knowing you could have had somewhere else you prefered you'll regret the decision and ultimately never be truly happy in your new home because it's not what you wanted.

 

[Marty]

OK this is the best thread for this. Sorry if it’s off topic too much.

I’ve had an offer accepted and put a mortgage application in earlier in the week. However I’ve just had the seller of a house I love come back to me andsay they’d now accept my offer as their sale has fallen through.

What’s the implications on switching house at this point? I’m still deciding which I like more, but feel I should go through with the one I’ve started, that’s just silly right?? Can you progress purchases on two houses (obviously means paying for two surveys at least) and then pull out of one at the last minute? Is that a dick move? Should I care?

View both houses again and make a decision, don't feel bad about pulling out of one, to go with the other if you prefer it. better to do it now, then 3 months down the line when everyone has forked out money.

 

[Grendel]

Well that’s it. It’s two different agents so neither would know really. I did really like this other house though and don’t want to buy somewhere and live in it for years just because I’m a nice guy lol!

You normally get a survey to support the mortgage so I doubt you’d be able to do two in conjunction and there’s not really much point - frankly if it’s the basic one it’s pointless anyway. Pick the one you want you’d only regret it afterwards

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

OK this is the best thread for this. Sorry if it’s off topic too much.

I’ve had an offer accepted and put a mortgage application in earlier in the week. However I’ve just had the seller of a house I love come back to me andsay they’d now accept my offer as their sale has fallen through.

What’s the implications on switching house at this point? I’m still deciding which I like more, but feel I should go through with the one I’ve started, that’s just silly right?? Can you progress purchases on two houses (obviously means paying for two surveys at least) and then pull out of one at the last minute? Is that a dick move? Should I care?

Don't string someone along . Go for the house you really want.

 

[shmmeee]

You normally get a survey to support the mortgage so I doubt you’d be able to do two in conjunction and there’s not really much point - frankly if it’s the basic one it’s pointless anyway. Pick the one you want you’d only regret it afterwards

Yeah I’ve already paid for the homebuyers survey on the one I’ve had an offer accepted on. I’ve emailed my broker to see if it’s too late to switch cos the survey hasn’t been done yet.

I’m just nervous about losing both I guess.

I’ve booked a viewing at the one that’s back on the market for tomorrow and will decide once both are fresh in my mind. Thanks for the input guys.

 

[wingy]

, I do wish we had the Scottish model ,not for the bidding,but the sellers report .
Everything surveyed and able to come to accurate valuation based on true condition .
Should be affordable for all vendors now with the curtailing of Stamp duty.

 

[wingy]

The other thing when they come to affordability,more needs to be considered when it comes to future maintenance.

 

[shmmeee]

, I do wish we had the Scottish model ,not for the bidding,but the sellers report .
Everything surveyed and able to come to accurate valuation based on true condition .
Should be affordable for all vendors now with the curtailing of Stamp duty.

Yeah I think this. Searches and everything should be part of a pack the seller provides. Searches themselves should be far cheaper as well, if I had the data I could do them all myself!

 

[wingy]

Yeah I think this. Searches and everything should be part of a pack the seller provides. Searches themselves should be far cheaper as well, if I had the data I could do them all myself!

Virtually did the conveyancing myself last year.Online service,or at least it felt like I did.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well that’s it. It’s two different agents so neither would know really. I did really like this other house though and don’t want to buy somewhere and live in it for years just because I’m a nice guy lol!

Nothing is binding yet so if you prefer the other place get in, do another viewing and then decide. If you're feeling confident, as you've now got some leverage try and get a discount on your previous offer.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

We have two houses for sale in our street which have been up for sale for a few months and interest seems small at the moment, just over a year ago a house went up for sale over the road and it sold for the full asking price on the first viewing. In Nuneaton now the market is flooded with new houses.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

, I do wish we had the Scottish model ,not for the bidding,but the sellers report .
Everything surveyed and able to come to accurate valuation based on true condition .
Should be affordable for all vendors now with the curtailing of Stamp duty.

A survey should be part of the selling process so you've effectively got a 'guarantee' on certain aspects of the structure. So many I know have moved in then found stuff that needed doing.

I'm all for every house needing surveying periodically (say 20-25 years) if it isn't sold to ensure it's safe and habitable. Give big discount on house insurance the newer the survey is. Basically like a MOT for houses.

 

[chiefdave]

A survey should be part of the selling process so you've effectively got a 'guarantee' on certain aspects of the structure. So many I know have moved in then found stuff that needed doing.

Yep, that was me! Had a full survey done at a place that came highly recommended - came back all OK.

Moved in and had a pool of water on the floor day one. Was a leak from the boiler which led to the discovery it wasn't safe and the gas being turned off. New ceiling in the lounge thanks to water damage, walls had to be replastered. Bathroom suite wasn't installed properly, roof had to be replaced. Cost £14K to get it fit to live in!

Went back to the solicitor who said its a common issue and there's not really anything you can do about it as if you take action against the seller they can just say they knew nothing about it and you have to prove they did.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yep, that was me! Had a full survey done at a place that came highly recommended - came back all OK.

Moved in and had a pool of water on the floor day one. Was a leak from the boiler which led to the discovery it wasn't safe and the gas being turned off. New ceiling in the lounge thanks to water damage, walls had to be replastered. Bathroom suite wasn't installed properly, roof had to be replaced. Cost £14K to get it fit to live in!

Went back to the solicitor who said its a common issue and there's not really anything you can do about it as if you take action against the seller they can just say they knew nothing about it and you have to prove they did.

Couldn't you have claimed some of that off whoever did the survey that they missed this stuff?

 

[shmmeee]

Yep, that was me! Had a full survey done at a place that came highly recommended - came back all OK.

Moved in and had a pool of water on the floor day one. Was a leak from the boiler which led to the discovery it wasn't safe and the gas being turned off. New ceiling in the lounge thanks to water damage, walls had to be replastered. Bathroom suite wasn't installed properly, roof had to be replaced. Cost £14K to get it fit to live in!

Went back to the solicitor who said its a common issue and there's not really anything you can do about it as if you take action against the seller they can just say they knew nothing about it and you have to prove they did.

Jesus. Why did I click back on this thread?

 

[chiefdave]

Couldn't you have claimed some of that off whoever did the survey that they missed this stuff?

Solicitor said there was less chance of that than winning a case against the sellers. They cover themselves with the small print, things like they can only examine what they can access on the day of the survey and adding in things saying if you are uncertain about something you should get a specialist in. But lets be honest who does that, you can't have electricians, plumbers etc going in and out testing everything even if you could find someone prepared to do it.

So you get something like the roof and they just go 'it wasn't raining the day we inspected so we wouldn't have seen any leaks'. It wasn't raining the day the plumber got in the loft to check the outlet pipe either but he managed to notice you could see outside though holes in the roof!

Survey done by the selling agent and some sort of warranty / insurance for even as little as 90 days would solve things. The people not up to the job would soon lose work if insurance companies had to start paying out to repair things they'd missed.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Jesus. Why did I click back on this thread?

Insurers will advise you to buy insurance from the time you exchange, as if anything happens before completion you still have to buy the property (or get in a huge legal argument, although you love those (joke)).

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Insurers will advise you to buy insurance from the time you exchange, as if anything happens before completion you still have to buy the property (or get in a huge legal argument, although you love those (joke)).

Yes. Any decent solicitor should point this out as standard.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Solicitor said there was less chance of that than winning a case against the sellers. They cover themselves with the small print, things like they can only examine what they can access on the day of the survey and adding in things saying if you are uncertain about something you should get a specialist in. But lets be honest who does that, you can't have electricians, plumbers etc going in and out testing everything even if you could find someone prepared to do it.

So you get something like the roof and they just go 'it wasn't raining the day we inspected so we wouldn't have seen any leaks'. It wasn't raining the day the plumber got in the loft to check the outlet pipe either but he managed to notice you could see outside though holes in the roof!

Survey done by the selling agent and some sort of warranty / insurance for even as little as 90 days would solve things. The people not up to the job would soon lose work if insurance companies had to start paying out to repair things they'd missed.

Makes the survey pointless. Just turn up, look at some stuff, say "yeah it looks fine" then bugger off without any chance of it biting them on the backside. Not like they're cheap either.

I'd have thought that you having the survey done would actually harm your case against the seller because they can use it to say you had the place inspected rather than sold on trust/as seen.

Surveyors should have to bring in a plumber/electrician to check the specialist areas for them otherwise what's the point. Otherwise where does it end? I'm not a roofer, bricklayer, glazier... You're basically paying someone to have a nosey around your house.

If definitely needs a warranty/insurance included.

 

[shmmeee]

Had an offer accepted on the other house. Went back yesterday and fell in love again. Absolute no brainier. Fair play to the seller as well WhatsApped me a message screenshot showing he’s turned down a higher offer after he’s accepted mine. Said he considered the house mine and to enjoy it.

Appreciate the advice guys. Going to confirm the swap on the mortgage tomorrow then tell the first sellers I’m pulling out. They’ve not taken it off the market since accepting anyway so shouldn’t be too much inconvenience for them.