New Stadium - The pessimist's view... (4 Viewers)

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Can we have a terrace please.

 

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[Otis]

You won't go anyway, so I assume your negativity is some kind of self-justification for it.

Why won't I?

I had a ST for St. Andrews and had earmarked some games, but was unable to attend.

It was only Sixfields I wouldn't go to.

Are you mixing me up with someone else?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Can we have a terrace please.

Safe standing would be incredible

 

[mark_ccfc]

Before I get hammered with abuse, I just want to state that my sincere hope is that this has been well thought through and is a viable long term solution for us but I just wanted to put the alternative view out there.

I can't help but feel that this is a smokescreen for our inability to negotiate a deal to stay at the Ricoh. It really feels like this carrot is being dangled as a pre-cursor to an announcement that we will not be playing in Coventry for the forseeable. What has actually been announced today? 2 entities have announced that they are looking into a new ground for Coventry City at a determined site, it is nothing more than that. No planning permission, no accurate timescales, no clear source of funding. What we have is a paper thin promise.

If it doesn't come to fruition there are so many get out clauses for both parties and whilst we are playing outside of coventry it is something for SISU to fall back on to appease the fans. That means for potentially the next 5 years we'll be tenants in another clubs ground with: limited matchday revenue, no events revenue, limited F+B revenue, all whilst trying to compete in a league whereby the top clubs are paying player £50+k per week.

Remember the shortsightedness of our highfield road to ricoh move, we made an assumption that we'd still be a premier league club and the reality was that when we got relegated to div 1 and didn't bounce back, the model was unsustainable and the ricoh became a money pit. How are we mitigating the same thing happening again? We're looking into building a ground in 5 years time having only just got back into the championship, potentially taking on huge debts, with limited revenue all whilst facing the very real risk of not being able to compete in the championship (MR has stated our budget will already be the lowest)

Before everyone gets giddy we should face the real possibility that: this is all just a smokescreen for a short term announcement that we won't be playing in cov; that it impacts our revenue in a highly monetised league and it exposes us to huge financial risk when the reality is we could well be a L1 club again next year.

A lot of people being optimistic about the Uni putting their name to it here, again I can see why but let's look at their challenges 1/6 of Warwick Uni revenue comes from overseas students, in the wake and aftermath of a global pandemic it will be more difficult than ever to attract overseas students (particularly from th efar east where a large proportion come from) in addition there is no longevity in uni's keeping their fees the same whilst all teaching is being moved online, there is already uproar in the student population about this. They have to tell a story of positivity and investment. Investment attracts more investment and whilst there is the possibility of the ground go ahead they will see income from associated streams.

*** prepares for abuse ***

Anyone giving you abuse would be talking nonsense. It is over 6 years since SISU announced ccfc needed their own stadium. It has taken that long to get to the point of talking about a collaboration. I fully expect this to go quiet for a long time, I am certainly not holding my breath.......

 

[Paxman II]

A surprise announcement and you can't do that without both sides having agreed. So from that angle 'exploratory' work has been done regarding the 'possability' of a stadium being errected there. That's all it is. SISU have found a willing partner with land available that would be a suitable spot. It could be turned downed by local authorities at the first hurdle and that will be that. I struggle to see the universities role or reasoning other than the ability to get a partner to help plan a sports facility being helpful from an exposure viewpoint, and helping getting new infrastructure on the planners minds for the ever expanding university.
SISU I doubt very much will ever build a stadium. Getting a plan in place that is viable, and with an high profile university onboard is the more likely reason in their ultimate goal of selling CCFC. They will attract more buyers and a larger price with such a 'proposal' that consist of some outline approval and a high profile university partnership.
It provides SISU with something of a 'stability' plan for the future of CCFC albeit without any concreate approvals, while remaining feasible.
I have said many times SISU will sell once they get to the championship, and part of that plan will be keeping us in this division to ensure a decent price for the club can be achieved.
It also negates fans if we fail to agree a deal with WASP. I suspect we are seeking a 5 year deal at the Ricoh to align with this forward thinking, thus attracting buyers for the football club as our future looks secure. I would expect the caveat with WASP would be for any future owners of CCFC would inherit the full rights negoitated, and are free to make any new arrangements with WASP. So SISU get back at the Ricoh for the good of all sides, match day revenues and a sound footing is established once more with a back up 'intentional' plan for the long term.
WASP should relish the opportunity of a football club for the next 5 years and the possibility of new owners of CCFC looking for more with them once SISU depart.
Annoucing now is just a feel good factor for fans and a small added pressure on WASP to see a 5 year deal approved. WASP will have plenty of options to persuade new owners of CCFC to remain at the Ricoh and SISU have their get out of jail card in place to attract buyers whether at the Ricoh again or not.
On a personal note: A 20k seat stadium rising to 30k or so will not be large enough for Coventry should we continue to have ambition or even stability in the championship.

 

[shmmeee]

As it was so long ago I can't remember if there was specific land named last time? This time we have a specific area and a specific partner named publicly which I think makes it less pie in the sky than last time (but obviously I'm sceptical until I'm in my sky blue seat)

I don’t think a parcel of land was identified but we’d heard Bermuda Park I think. I’ll be honest it all blurs together and I might be mixing up things.

To be clear: this is what I wanted. The location and partner are right and I think a new ground is the right way forward. I’m just very wary of promises of progress.

 

[mr_monkey]

I don’t think a parcel of land was identified but we’d heard Bermuda Park I think. I’ll be honest it all blurs together and I might be mixing up things.

To be clear: this is what I wanted. The location and partner are right and I think a new ground is the right way forward. I’m just very wary of promises of progress.

I am too mate, I just couldn't remember the details of last time hence why I asked. I must admit though the more I think about it the more I think we are at blues until the stadium is built

 

[chiefdave]

Complete understand any scepticism but I can't see the Uni agreeing to have their name involved without there being something to it. Also doubt its something that's been thrown together quickly, too many people would have to sign off on it before the Uni would be making announcements like this.

If we were talking about somebody else and not SISU this is exactly the sort of announcement you'd expect at the start of a project like this.

 

[SBT]

Complete understand any scepticism but I can't see the Uni agreeing to have their name involved without there being something to it.

CBRE were happy to have their name on our much-derided stadium announcement in 2013, and it doesn't seem to have done them much harm. Warwick's involvement is interesting, but there's nothing here that can't be very easily and quietly unwound later on.

 

[Gibbo]

I would always take an announcement like this with a pinch of salt, but having Warwick Uni on our side does give it more substance. I think the club has also changed direction off the pitch in terms of management so I doubt they would be making this all up. The absence of Fisher in this announcement gives it more credit for one.

I suspect we will be at St Andrews indefinitely and I would expect this announcement has been timed accordingly to soften the blow from that. If this does really take off though, and I think there is more reason to believe this more than anything else, then it could be absolutely phenomenal for the club.

The uni have been building stuff for fun in the last 10 years and seem to have a bucket of money. There are so many lessons from the Ricoh to take into account and I hope there will be a committee of fans involved in the project. I.e. making sure it isn't a soulless bowl etc. I for one would be happy to be involved with that.

It is very easy to tell apart the people who are genuinely apprehensive of this news from the ones that have no intention of going to games and just want to slate it at any opportunity.

Equally to some the thought of Wasps and the Council getting done over has roughed a few feathers. I love it.

Reference the above, I have two pet theories neither of which has a shred of supporting evidence. One is that since relegation to L2, Fisher has been sidelined and Seppala is in charge of the relationship. And it is a direct quote from her that she does not do "losing".

The other is utterly unrelated and will be trotted out at the appropriate moment.

 

[Gibbo]

A surprise announcement and you can't do that without both sides having agreed. So from that angle 'exploratory' work has been done regarding the 'possability' of a stadium being erected there. That's all it is. SISU have found a willing partner with land available that would be a suitable spot. It could be turned downed by local authorities at the first hurdle and that will be that. I struggle to see the universities role or reasoning other than the ability to get a partner to help plan a sports facility being helpful from an exposure viewpoint, and helping getting new infrastructure on the planners minds for the evr expanding university.
SISU I doubt very much will ever build a stadium. Getting a plan in place that is viable, and with an high profile university onboard is the more likely reason in their ultimate goal of selling CCFC. They will attract more buyers and a larger price with such a 'proposal' that consist of some outline approval and a high profile university partnership.
It provides SISU with something of a 'stability' plan for the future of CCFC albeit without any concreate approvals, while remaining feasible.
I have said many times SISU will sell once they get to the championship, and part of that plan will be keeping us in this division to ensure a decent price for the club can be achieved.
It also negates fans if we fail to agree a deal with WASP. I suspect we are seeking a 5 year deal at the Ricoh to align with this forward thinking, thus attracting buyers for the football club as our future looks secure. I would expect the caveat with WASP would be for any future owners of CCFC would inherit the full rights negoitated, and are free to make any new arrangements with WASP. So SISU get back at the Ricoh for the good of all sides, match day revenues and a sound footing is established once more with a back up 'intentional' plan for the long term.
WASP should relish the opportunity of a football club for the next 5 years and the possibility of new owners of CCFC looking for more with them once SISU depart.
Annoucing now is just a feel good factor for fans and a small added pressure on WASP to see a 5 year deal approved. WASP will have plenty of options to persuade new owners of CCFC to remain at the Ricoh and SISU have their get out of jail card in place to attract buyers whether at the Ricoh again or not.
On a personal note: A 20k seat stadium rising to 30k or so will not be large enough for Coventry should we continue to have ambition or even stability in the championship.

It's plenty big enough for a mid table Championship side. All the caveats only apply if you exclude the Uni. Once you include a substantial, prestigious partner, all those caveats are automatically weakened

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Agreed with the OP, I doubt a brick will ever be laid. Uni's are in a lot of trouble-I think it's been confirmed now that overseas students won't be back next year and there's a ? over Chinese students being welcome given the current political war of words.

Would be worse if it was Cov Uni, though-they're about 4th highest in the table of OS students, Warwick are lower down.

The starting capacity is ridiculously low too, though (as it was with previous announced stadiums that never happened). Less than Highfield Road is a bit pathetic! Yeah yeah it can be expanded...just start with 24-27k, surely? We'd sell that out plenty if we were Premier League.


We are 28th in the list of clubs in the list of top flight seasons-per-club!

Seasons in the Top Flight of English Football by Clubs 1888-89 to 2023-24 - My Football Facts

Seasons Spent in the Top Flight of English Football by Clubs from 1888-89 to 2023-24 My Football Facts ⇒ England Footy ⇒ Football League Table showing the Total Number of Seasons spent by Clubs in the Top Flight of English football from 1888-89 to 2023-24. Includes a table of Consecutive…

www.myfootballfacts.com

Smacks of ambition being no higher than Championship, but if you compare it to other Championship clubs it's not really even adequate for that:

What Is The EFL Championship Stadium Capacity 2019/20 – For Every Club

The EFL Championship Stadium Capacity In Order Of Size The clubs playing in the EFL Championship for season 2019/20 have the following ground capacities. Sheffield Wednesday have the largest ground with a capacity of 39,859 and if returning to the Premiership would have the 10th biggest gate...

www.sportsballshop.co.uk

So that would be 4th smallest in the Championship and the 48th biggest stadium in the football league...

 

[chiefdave]

CBRE were happy to have their name on our much-derided stadium announcement in 2013, and it doesn't seem to have done them much harm. Warwick's involvement is interesting, but there's nothing here that can't be very easily and quietly unwound later on.

CBRE were engaged by the club and paid, not partners, and, at least partially did the job they were brought on board to do. IMO that's very different to the University announcing a partnership with the club on a new stadium project.

 

[ajsccfc]

Warwick has largely catered for most of the planned losses caused by Covid by pausing projects and spending and a voluntary redundancy scheme. A second wave or it never subsiding will obviously fuck things up for everyone but short of that it's not the alarm bells that may be sounding elsewhere.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It's plenty big enough for a mid table Championship side. All the caveats only apply if you exclude the Uni. Once you include a substantial, prestigious partner, all those caveats are automatically weakened

No its not, its very small for the championship

 

[Nick]

Warwick has largely catered for most of the planned losses caused by Covid by pausing projects and spending and a voluntary redundancy scheme. A second wave or it never subsiding will obviously fuck things up for everyone but short of that it's not the alarm bells that may be sounding elsewhere.

You are talking as if you know a lot about Warwick Uni and you aren't making things up.

Not sure you fit in.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Warwick has largely catered for most of the planned losses caused by Covid by pausing projects and spending and a voluntary redundancy scheme. A second wave or it never subsiding will obviously fuck things up for everyone but short of that it's not the alarm bells that may be sounding elsewhere.

Could this be another business opportunity to help to make up for the shortfall? They are doing this to make money, right?

 

[ajsccfc]

There's got to be something in it for everybody of course. It'd be nice to know Sisu are somehow helping to keep me employed, they owe me something for that 16/17 season if nothing else

 

[Nick]

There's got to be something in it for everybody of course. It'd be nice to know Sisu are somehow helping to keep me employed, they owe me something for that 16/17 season if nothing else

Wait, you are employed by SISU?

 

[ajsccfc]

Felt cute, might delete later

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Hang on, I'm missing the obvious...post Covid-19, there will be government enforced reductions in maximum capacity to increase social distancing. This is the figure for New Highfield Road after that has been applied and will actually see us having the 3rd biggest stadium in the UK around 2027. SISU are simply ahead of the curve.

 

[wince]

Maybe , CCFC and the university will start building a 18000 stadium and if in the mean time Wasps , leave/go bust or the E/U appeals comes to a conclusion , CCFC can go back in for the RIOCH and the uni can downsize the stadium to what ever size they need , it would be easier to downsize than expand so maybe the story has some legs

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I don't think you would get abuse for being pessimistic about it, most people should be.

The one promising thing I can think of is that Warwick Uni won't be making statements for shits and giggles for a smokescreen.

If it means 5 years at St Andrews IF something then starts to get rolling then let's go for it. That's if progress is actually made on it.

I agree with all of that. Still think it's wise to wait a few days however before we get too orgasmic with the Warwick Uni bit. It wouldn't be the first time a potential partner was surprised with the wording of a club statement.

Now obviously, I hope they're not and all is good. If they don't stick their hand up and say err hang on, then fantastic.

And that's before we get to the funding, the plan / design / permission etc which of course we'll all believe when we see it.

I do feel obliged to go through my own old posts however, to wherever I said Warwick Uni would be the ideal partner. Nobody likes a smartarse, but it'd make me feel better!

 

[ajsccfc]

They've released the same statement word for word so they're right on board as it stands now at least

Joint Statement by Coventry City Football Club and the University of Warwick

warwick.ac.uk

 

[Nick]

I agree with all of that. Still think it's wise to wait a few days however before we get too orgasmic with the Warwick Uni bit. It wouldn't be the first time a potential partner was surprised with the wording of a club statement.

Now obviously, I hope they're not and all is good. If they don't stick their hand up and say err hang on, then fantastic.

And that's before we get to the funding, the plan / design / permission etc which of course we'll all believe when we see it.

I do feel obliged to go through my own old posts however, to wherever I said Warwick Uni would be the ideal partner. Nobody likes a smartarse, but it'd make me feel better!

They have released the exact same statement though?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

They have released the exact same statement though?

Fair enough then

I'll modify it to the devil behind the detail then. As yet there's not a lot...

I suppose it's progress that it's not just a goon from their bedroom knocking a statement out. One thing we've had plenty of in the past, is statements!

We'll see... experience says wait a while and see what actually happens!

 

[Nick]

Fair enough then

I'll modify it to the devil behind the detail then. As yet there's not a lot...

I suppose it's progress that it's not just a goon from their bedroom knocking a statement out. One thing we've had plenty of in the past, is statements!

We'll see... experience says wait a while and see what actually happens!

I think people are more optimistic because they have put their name to it and it's not Fisher saying "we have identified land".

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I think people are more optimistic because they have put their name to it and it's not Fisher saying "we have identified land".

That is definitely progress, and Warwick Uni have more to lose for sure, not like we have much credibility in scenarios like this!

I'll definitely be more at home on the pessimists' threads until some kind of concrete progress is made, however

(Oh, the site would also be more convenient for me too, so bring it on... although who knows where any of us will be in 5-10 years time!)

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Understand where you're coming from but through my work I'm actually involved with a couple of the projects & there is no talk of delaying. There will be minimum of £130m worth of projects delivered next year & new planning applications are still being submitted.

So am I at the moment we are flat out and employing more, but there is talk in the building industry is that the bubble is about to burst.
I was on site in Sheffield today at a student village off to London to another tomorrow, if the students dont return all these brand new builds will be left empty.
Hope it doesnt happen as we rely on the Univercities for a majority of our work at the moment as no one else is building.

Never know might get a contract for the new ground we have already supplied Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, Ricoh,Fleetwood and many more.

 

[stevefloyd]

If it gets built fantastic ...if it don't get built not so fantastic

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Nope I don't think students necessarily will but it will attract investment from associated fields, they will be able to invest heavily in faculty and research and development to make themselves a more attractive proposition overall. The article already cites sport science and hospitality and leisure as growing disciplines, they will be able to access government funding to build these functions out

I think the R&D and technology being developed and licenced by the uni is going to be far more lucrative to them than housing our stadium which we'd receive the income from. So the biggest draw is likely to be a short term injection of cash to mitigate possible effects of Covid and foreign students etc.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

A partnership with Warwick University adds credibility and isn’t a smokescreen. An educational institute doesn’t want to be involved in mind games. There’s lots of work that has happened behind the scenes to get to this point. Quite a few MPs have come out in support.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So am I at the moment we are flat out and employing more, but there is talk in the building industry is that the bubble is about to burst.
I was on site in Sheffield today at a student village off to London to another tomorrow, if the students dont return all these brand new builds will be left empty.
Hope it doesnt happen as we rely on the Univercities for a majority of our work at the moment as no one else is building.

Never know might get a contract for the new ground we have already supplied Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, Ricoh,Fleetwood and many more.

I did feel with the student blocks going up Coventry got on the bandwagon pretty late, esp for a 'student city'. Obv no-one was expecting the global pandemic but relations with China are always frosty at best and there are a large number of Chinese students. There certainly was demand to be filled over the last few years though hence why the building started very quickly compared to other projects involving retail or office space.

 

[shmmeee]

I did feel with the student blocks going up Coventry got on the bandwagon pretty late, esp for a 'student city'. Obv no-one was expecting the global pandemic but relations with China are always frosty at best and there are a large number of Chinese students. There certainly was demand to be filled over the last few years though hence why the building started very quickly compared to other projects involving retail or office space.

Easy money for developers, same as build to rent. If Unis go pop tomorrow, which I doubt will happen, they’ll just switch to PRS and rent them all out as luxury managed apartments. I notice the new ones aren’t the student halls I knew in my day, if I was childless I’d definitely live in some of the ones around the Belgrade. No chance the residential market is going to disappear in this country and IIRC in planning terms a student block is just another HMO so no worries making the switch legally.

 

[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

I just want to be back at Ricoh Arena.

Its a great stadium and I don't want to be anywhere else.