The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
What an odd world you live in. Nothing better to do?
Not strange at all. The EU has been giving subsidies to support farming since it began. If & when we leave from what I have seen, when I have nothing better to do, you (& others) appear to be suggesting &/or being accused of suggesting that the UK Govt should leave our farming industry to stand or fall according to market forces.

Sorry, if that is incorrect. Just how it's coming across.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Obviously not but businesses could be offered tax relief or some other compensation that sees the employee paid more for their work.
And you think this would be easy?

So what kind of company would get what sort of help?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I don't want the state picking up the tab for low wages-why do you?
So you want to give subsidies to who the EU give subsidies to. You want to supply subsidised housing. But you want to stop people from working who don't have skills although they would earn more in the UK than most places in the EU.

OK.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Where did I say that exactly?
As you know this was in reply to a post you made that was exactly what I have been saying.

How about a question for yourself. Why haven't you corrected anyone who doesn't agree with what you have said here?

We all know the answer. Just shows who wants a debate and those who want to try and force an opinion forward.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
The trouble is - every country gives subsidies for one industry or another. So it is hypocritical of one to criticise another. The real issues are around the intent. One country subsidises to keep a vital industry afloat in it's local market...another does it to dominate the international market - then we get problems & all industries become embroiled in tit-for-tat shit.

Bit like leave-remain really.

That was my point - the hypocrisy of the US using Chinese subsidies as an excuse for the tariffs when it is a practice they themselves do, albeit arguably to a lesser extent.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
As you know this was in reply to a post you made that was exactly what I have been saying.

How about a question for yourself. Why haven't you corrected anyone who doesn't agree with what you have said here?

We all know the answer. Just shows who wants a debate and those who want to try and force an opinion forward.

So I didn’t say it then. Thanks for the confirmation.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
You know exactly what I said as have already explained it all once. And what I said was clear enough for most people.

There has been calls for the minimum wage to go up to a tenner an hour. What I said......and others agree I said......is raising it too quickly would increase inflation. Prices would go up. This would increase inflation. Before you know it the pay rise would be lost to inflation.

Do you have a mortgage? It has been kept artificially low for years. If i flation gets going like when Labour were in power before....not the Bliar years as he was Tory in disguise.....your mortgage repayments could easily double.

If the low paid were to get a massive payrise by the % many others would also want one. Then if it was given to all inflation would be out of control. Millions would lose their homes.

At least they could try and blame it on Brexit......

Firstly, no. I told you what I understood. You can’t mind read. Obviously I did get the wrong end and that’s that

Secondly, clearly you’re not up to an economic discussion if you think that about Labour and inflation. It’s so childish and ridiculous as to not even be worth discussing. It’s like saying “oh the democrats are racist cos slavery”. Silly, I’ll informed tribal drivel.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Firstly, no. I told you what I understood. You can’t mind read. Obviously I did get the wrong end and that’s that

Secondly, clearly you’re not up to an economic discussion if you think that about Labour and inflation. It’s so childish and ridiculous as to not even be worth discussing. It’s like saying “oh the democrats are racist cos slavery”. Silly, I’ll informed tribal drivel.
So what don't I understand about economics and inflation?

What was the cause of hyper inflation in the seventies?

So McDonnell is calling for huge % pay rises for millions. Yet some of you would prefer to risk these people losing their jobs even though the minimum wage in the UK is much better than the vast majority of the countries in the EU.

You just want to knock the UK constantly. Fair play to you. But when you have an understanding of inflationary causes and are willing to be honest we can have a debate on the matter.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
So what don't I understand about economics and inflation?

What was the cause of hyper inflation in the seventies?

So McDonnell is calling for huge % pay rises for millions. Yet some of you would prefer to risk these people losing their jobs even though the minimum wage in the UK is much better than the vast majority of the countries in the EU.

You just want to knock the UK constantly. Fair play to you. But when you have an understanding of inflationary causes and are willing to be honest we can have a debate on the matter.

What you clearly don’t understand firstly is the difference between neoliberal economics and Keynesian economics because you think Blair was a Tory.

Secondly you drop in shit like “you just want to knock the UK”, which marks you out as someone not mature enough to have a sensible economic discussion.

Thirdly, you think it was wages that caused inflation in the 70s and not oil prices. Wages aren’t a huge part of product cost in most industries. In fast food for example a study was done and a pay rise of $5/her resulted in a price rise of about $0.06 on a Big Mac. You also think the industrial relations of the 70s are at all applicable to the modern atomised economy, which is frankly hilarious. The requests being made by unions in the 70s are nothing like a NMW raise.

Finally, you don’t seem to be able to understand that the people in the Labour Party and the state of left wing economic thinking in the 70s is not the same as it is today, and that most economists would back the sort of social democratic policies Labour are currently proposing that look nothing like that was proposed in the 70s.

Seriously mate. I like you, but you come across as a standard low information Mail reader who isn’t up to sensible discussion because you’re fixated on the 70s and the stories you’ve told yourself about why they happened. Lift your head up and look around the world a little, it’s changed.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
What you clearly don’t understand firstly is the difference between neoliberal economics and Keynesian economics because you think Blair was a Tory.

Secondly you drop in shit like “you just want to knock the UK”, which marks you out as someone not mature enough to have a sensible economic discussion.

Thirdly, you think it was wages that caused inflation in the 70s and not oil prices. Wages aren’t a huge part of product cost in most industries. In fast food for example a study was done and a pay rise of $5/her resulted in a price rise of about $0.06 on a Big Mac. You also think the industrial relations of the 70s are at all applicable to the modern atomised economy, which is frankly hilarious. The requests being made by unions in the 70s are nothing like a NMW raise.

Finally, you don’t seem to be able to understand that the people in the Labour Party and the state of left wing economic thinking in the 70s is not the same as it is today, and that most economists would back the sort of social democratic policies Labour are currently proposing that look nothing like that was proposed in the 70s.

Seriously mate. I like you, but you come across as a standard low information Mail reader who isn’t up to sensible discussion because you’re fixated on the 70s and the stories you’ve told yourself about why they happened. Lift your head up and look around the world a little, it’s changed.
Shall we start on your first point before we move onto your next one?

Owen Jones: It's time to demolish the myth about Tony Blair
 

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Obviously the UK Govt had messed things up & were doomed to fail because...

BBC News

menu

Brexit: EU says no to May on renegotiating deal

14 December 2018


The EU didn't want or need to renegotiate & there were loads on here full of blather & bluster about the looming disaster.

But here we are...getting closer to the crunch point. Stances are softening, EU leaders say one thing & are behind the scenes probably ticked off for breaking rank...& then one of the main men himself...

·

SEPTEMBER 19, 2019, 6:24 PM

EU's Juncker says on Brexit: "I think we can have a deal"

Reuters Staff


And yet so many have ridiculed & slated the UK Govt for making no attempt to negotiate. And of course for those same people - nothing is happening unless it says so in the "daily blah"!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Obviously the UK Govt had messed things up & were doomed to fail because...

BBC News

menu

Brexit: EU says no to May on renegotiating deal

14 December 2018


The EU didn't want or need to renegotiate & there were loads on here full of blather & bluster about the looming disaster.

But here we are...getting closer to the crunch point. Stances are softening, EU leaders say one thing & are behind the scenes probably ticked off for breaking rank...& then one of the main men himself...

·

SEPTEMBER 19, 2019, 6:24 PM

EU's Juncker says on Brexit: "I think we can have a deal"

Reuters Staff


And yet so many have ridiculed & slated the UK Govt for making no attempt to negotiate. And of course for those same people - nothing is happening unless it says so in the "daily blah"!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Chances are it’s going to similar to the original agreement and will be made possible due to the DUP backing down.

It’ll be interesting to see if it gets through parliament
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Chances are it’s going to similar to the original agreement and will be made possible due to the DUP backing down.

It’ll be interesting to see if it gets through parliament
Do you want it this time because you didn't last time.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Do you want it this time because you didn't last time.

As I’ve stated numerous times own my personal preference would have been the EEA option as a compromise between the two sides.

Whether there is a deal or not deal doesn’t actually impact me personally. This will very much be the May’s deal repackaged and Johnson hoping the threat of no deal gets it through, which I’m not sure would happen.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Obviously the UK Govt had messed things up & were doomed to fail because...

BBC News

menu

Brexit: EU says no to May on renegotiating deal

14 December 2018


The EU didn't want or need to renegotiate & there were loads on here full of blather & bluster about the looming disaster.

But here we are...getting closer to the crunch point. Stances are softening, EU leaders say one thing & are behind the scenes probably ticked off for breaking rank...& then one of the main men himself...

·

SEPTEMBER 19, 2019, 6:24 PM

EU's Juncker says on Brexit: "I think we can have a deal"

Reuters Staff


And yet so many have ridiculed & slated the UK Govt for making no attempt to negotiate. And of course for those same people - nothing is happening unless it says so in the "daily blah"!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
It is still down to posturing on both sides. And like I have always said it will go down to the wire. The EU doesn't have to budge an inch until the end. But BJ has made it so nobody knows where the end is. Is it the end of this month or the end of next month?

He previously wanted the May deal to go through. And he isn't exactly truthful. Just like the vast majority of them. It could be down to accepting the old deal with a few changes. Nobody knows.

So stop celebrating. Looks to me like close ties to the EU could continue. A good result I would say. At least a good result for me anyway.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
As I’ve stated numerous times own my personal preference would have been the EEA option as a compromise between the two sides.

Whether there is a deal or not deal doesn’t actually impact me personally. This will very much be the May’s deal repackaged and Johnson hoping the threat of no deal gets it through, which I’m not sure would happen.
I reckon it's MPs forcing him to take no deal off the table which has pushed towards a deal. The only way he can save face is if we actually do leave on the 31st, and now the only way that can happen is with a deal.

Well done MPs, pulling us back from the brink of the abyss, caused by a reckless, dishonest prime minister.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I reckon it's MPs forcing him to take no deal off the table which has pushed towards a deal. The only way he can save face is if we actually do leave on the 31st, and now the only way that can happen is with a deal.

Well done MPs, pulling us back from the brink of the abyss, caused by a reckless, dishonest prime minister.

If he does come back with a rehashed May deal I wonder if the press will class it as treasonous then only to label anyone who doesn’t vote for it treasonous as last time.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
And will he vote for a similar deal to the one he's voted against in the past? Will Johnson have to vote against himself?

Will the extreme right group vote for it or will the opposition be blamed for it not being passed despite there being enough Tory rebels voting against it to ensure that it doesn’t pass?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I reckon it's MPs forcing him to take no deal off the table which has pushed towards a deal. The only way he can save face is if we actually do leave on the 31st, and now the only way that can happen is with a deal.

Well done MPs, pulling us back from the brink of the abyss, caused by a reckless, dishonest prime minister.

He was always going to bring a deal back - it’s a very predictable action - you could say well done Johnson for actually properly trying to play all his cards rather than put the ace in bin before talks started
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
He was always going to bring a deal back - it’s a very predictable action - you could say well done Johnson for actually properly trying to play all his cards rather than put the ace in bin before talks started
In your opinion, what is his ace?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
In your opinion, what is his ace?

The leave card with no deal as an option. I’m sure you said at the start he’d repackage the old deal
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
The leave card with no deal as an option. I’m sure you said at the start he’d repackage the old deal
Yes, I thought he would end up repackaging it, it will be interesting if he sticks ot his word and expels those who vote against it from the party.
 

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