The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (41 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Again you miss the point that the whole standpoint was to continue concede to the Eu.

If May was serious about no deal Brexit preparations would have begun to prepare for that from day 1. There would have been no divorce payment discussion either.

What was Davis up to then? His recent claims about entering a transition period after no deal show that he shouldn't have been Brexit Secretary in the first place. The whole thing is shocking. It's the lack of preparation and ignorance about it all that makes it all the much worse.

 

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[martcov]

He hedged in the early 90’s and is regarded as being responsible for financially ruining another country for s generation

We are talking about 500000 quid donation in 2018.

 

[Grendel]

We are talking about 500000 quid donation in 2018.

No we talking about ethics and suitability

 

[martcov]

What was Davis up to then? His recent claims about entering a transition period after no deal show that he shouldn't have been Brexit Secretary in the first place. The whole thing is shocking. It's the lack of preparation and ignorance about it all that makes it all the much worse.

Davis was speaking to the Heritage Foundation and the US agricultural ministry last week. Wonder how much he wanted a good EU deal...

 

[martcov]

No we talking about ethics and suitability

Oh well that’s leave fxxked then.

 

[clint van damme]

What was Davis up to then? His recent claims about entering a transition period after no deal show that he shouldn't have been Brexit Secretary in the first place. The whole thing is shocking. It's the lack of preparation and ignorance about it all that makes it all the much worse.

That was incredible, the amount of factually incorrect statements the man came out with during his time as Brexit secretary is unbelievable.

 

[skybluetony176]

What was Davis up to then? His recent claims about entering a transition period after no deal show that he shouldn't have been Brexit Secretary in the first place. The whole thing is shocking. It's the lack of preparation and ignorance about it all that makes it all the much worse.

Something overlooked constantly. Possibly her biggest mistake was putting people in charge of Brexit negotiations who clearly had and continue to have no idea about anything remotely Brexit connected. Maybe it’s just a coincidence that the people who have no understanding of what leave would mean also happen to be pro leave. The whole reason May had to take control of Brexit was because the leavers in her party are incompetent, clueless morons.

 

[Grendel]

Oh well that’s leave fxxked then.

Well clearly not as you belief such attributes are not applicable - otherwise you’d be horrified a creature of manipulation and misery is sponsoring a campaign

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I've said it consistently as have others, there shouldn't be a second referendum, some people agree some don't.
Bizarre to say you can't say it on this thread.

I don't think oucho would see it as anything other than tongue in cheek. You're so far up your own arse and uptight over all this you've lost all sense of humour.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't think oucho would see it as anything other than tongue in cheek. You're so far up your own arse and uptight over all this you've lost all sense of humour.

I definitely haven't lost my sense of humour, and your comments came across as a factually incorrect snidey little dig.
But if I got the wrong end of the stick then apologies.

 

[Astute]

You continually said that the EU would give into demands as the UK bought French cheese, Italian wine, went on holiday etc.

As expected it turned out to be a bollocks. If it all goes pear shaped I genuinely expect that you'll try and make out you were 100% remain.

I reality I actually said that the UK will go for for the EEA option and still think it will do.

If I said constantly that the EU would give into our demands you will happily show us these countless times I said it........won't you?

 

[Astute]

the deal on the table is appalling.
Hopefully it will not get through parliament and I fully expect that to be the case. When you have remainers saying they'd rather have no deal and leavers saying they'd rather remain than have Mays deal that tells you all you need to know.

I will tell you what I think to what is in the table when I see it. What worries me is the negotiations have hardly even started. What is on the table is to get us through until the negotiations are complete. And this could take years. That is the worrying thing. And that is what the MP's from both sides don't like.

 

[clint van damme]

I will tell you what I think to what is in the table when I see it. What worries me is the negotiations have hardly even started. What is on the table is to get us through until the negotiations are complete. And this could take years. That is the worrying thing. And that is what the MP's from both sides don't like.

I was referring to the proposed withdrawal agreement, I keep, incorrectly, referring, to it as the deal (as do many others), but, yeah, it isn't the deal.
That will come after the withdrawal agreement but I don't see it getting through parliament and I hope it wont.

 

[Sick Boy]

If I said constantly that the EU would give into our demands you will happily show us these countless times I said it........won't you?

You've consistently said it, I'm not going to go back over a thread that's 100s of pages to bother proving it.

You're unable to hold your hands up to anything and have to be appear to be right about everything. Hence, why I'm sure I a few years you'll claim to have backed either side.

 

[skybluetony176]

If I said constantly that the EU would give into our demands you will happily show us these countless times I said it........won't you?

We’ve all seen you say it, agree with people saying it and shouting down anyone saying the opposite. No one is surprised that you’re twisting it either.

 

[dutchman]

In Ireland the wording was altered to take into account people‘s opinions and Ireland is extreme pro EU now. The people seem quite happy how it panned out.

The treaty was rejected by voters in France, Holland and Ireland but Ireland was the only country allowed to have a second referendum.

 

[Astute]

You've consistently said it, I'm not going to go back over a thread that's 100s of pages to bother proving it.

You're unable to hold your hands up to anything and have to be appear to be right about everything. Hence, why I'm sure I a few years you'll claim to have backed either side.

Show me some proof on what you say I should hold my hands up to instead of constantly telling me what I have said when I haven't.

You told me that the EU wouldn't offer any sort of deal. I said they would last minute. And they have come to an agreement last minute. You hate the fact that the EU does actually need us. If they didn't you would have got your prediction right that you always made out to be a fact that they would make us crash and burn.

 

[Sick Boy]

Show me some proof on what you say I should hold my hands up to instead of constantly telling me what I have said when I haven't.

You told me that the EU wouldn't offer any sort of deal. I said they would last minute. And they have come to an agreement last minute. You hate the fact that the EU does actually need us. If they didn't you would have got your prediction right that you always made out to be a fact that they would make us crash and burn.

Hahaha...this is classic. I've actually said that I think the UK will end up in the EEA, especially as it wasn't going to be able to call the shots in negotiations and get its own way. I still think long-term that it will be the eventual outcome.

There is no certain withdrawal agreement either as it's highly unlikely get through parliament, which is surprising as you told us that the UK would be calling the shots as we had the upper hand.

 

[martcov]

Well clearly not as you belief such attributes are not applicable - otherwise you’d be horrified a creature of manipulation and misery is sponsoring a campaign

Who would you say of the top leavers has the necessary ethical, honesty and high intelligence to satisfy your high standards?

 

[Astute]

Hahaha...this is classic. I've actually said that I think the UK will end up in the EEA, especially as it wasn't going to be able to call the shots in negotiations and get its own way. I still think long-term that it will be the eventual outcome.

There is no certain withdrawal agreement either as it's highly unlikely get through parliament, which is surprising as you told us that the UK would be calling the shots as we had the upper hand.

And yet again I ask you to prove your stupid accusation. I have never said we would call the shots. You will come out with any old crap on this thread. I remember the days when you w
were easily one of the better contributors on here. But you have become so bitter and twisted on the subject.

I'm not sure if it will get passed through parliament or not. Who would like to be the one to put us into more shit than we could be in now? Just like all these letters against May. What happened to them?

I have a feeling it will get passed through parliament but then go downhill quickly when the proper negotiations start.

And BTW what about your Gibraltar quote?

 

[Grendel]

Who would you say of the top leavers has the necessary ethical, honesty and high intelligence to satisfy your high standards?

As I’ve said Bannon abd all the other obsessives swirling in your paranoid brain are morally no better or worse then Soros, Clegg or the blood stained Blair creature and his Goebells Campbell

So it’s all even on the morality front

 

[Sick Boy]

And yet again I ask you to prove your stupid accusation. I have never said we would call the shots. You will come out with any old crap on this thread. I remember the days when you w
were easily one of the better contributors on here. But you have become so bitter and twisted on the subject.

I'm not sure if it will get passed through parliament or not. Who would like to be the one to put us into more shit than we could be in now? Just like all these letters against May. What happened to them?

I have a feeling it will get passed through parliament but then go downhill quickly when the proper negotiations start.

And BTW what about your Gibraltar quote?

What about my Gibraltar quote? I'm not the one who claimed that Spain had backed down. It was my own opinion of what will happen in the long term future based on the UK making yet another concession to Spain and the Spanish PMs comments. Even Tim Barrow has said that it's much more vulnerable to Spanish pressure in the long term, it doesn't bode well for the future

Once proper negotiations start? If this deal does get through parliament, then the trade negotiations should be much easier compared to the withdrawal agreement, especially if the UK will stay so aligned to the EU in the future.

I'm not bitter about it at all, I am not one going to lose future rights.

I genuinely believe that it's going to be detrimental to the country and that it has been handled dreadfully by people who should never have been in positions of such power in the first place. The whole country's future has been in the hands of the likes of Davis and Raab and both have shown themselves to be utterly clueless.

The letters against May were all just bluster but than goodness it has caused Rees Mogg to look like a fool.

It also won't get through parliament because MPs on both sides believe it would put the UK in a position of weakness in the future, therefore making the problems even worse than they are now.

 

[dancers lance]

What about my Gibraltar quote? I'm not the one who claimed that Spain had backed down. It was my own opinion of what will happen in the future based on the UK making yet another concession to Spain and the Spanish PMs comments.

Once proper negotiations start? If this deal does get through parliament, then the trade negotiations should be much easier compared to the withdrawal agreement, especially if the UK will stay so aligned to the EU in the future.

I'm not bitter about it at all, I am not one going to lose future rights.

I genuinely believe that it's going to be detrimental to the country and that it has been handled dreadfully by people who should never have been in positions of such power in the first place. The whole country's future has been in the hands of the likes of Davis and Raab and both have shown themselves to be utterly clueless.

The letters against May were all just bluster but than goodness it has caused Rees Mogg to look like a fool.

It also won't get through parliament because MPs on both sides believe it would put the UK in a position of weakness in the future, therefore making the problems even worse than they are now.

SB, it also hasn't helped that JC is an absolute out man, always has been, the Labour party are in absolute turmoil themselves, they are just desperate for an election. They are driven by the momentum movement, they have the man they want in power, but he is not quite towing the line. JC has always wanted us out of the EU, and they all know it but can't quite bring themselves to say it. The Labour Party has become the sacrificial mother ship to the Socialist party, I just wish they could be honest about it. If JC walked away tomorrow and John Mc took his place they would have my vote.

 

[Astute]

What about my Gibraltar quote? I'm not the one who claimed that Spain had backed down. It was my own opinion of what will happen in the long term future based on the UK making yet another concession to Spain and the Spanish PMs comments. Even Tim Barrow has said that it's much more vulnerable to Spanish pressure in the long term, it doesn't bode well for the future

Once proper negotiations start? If this deal does get through parliament, then the trade negotiations should be much easier compared to the withdrawal agreement, especially if the UK will stay so aligned to the EU in the future.

I'm not bitter about it at all, I am not one going to lose future rights.

I genuinely believe that it's going to be detrimental to the country and that it has been handled dreadfully by people who should never have been in positions of such power in the first place. The whole country's future has been in the hands of the likes of Davis and Raab and both have shown themselves to be utterly clueless.

The letters against May were all just bluster but than goodness it has caused Rees Mogg to look like a fool.

It also won't get through parliament because MPs on both sides believe it would put the UK in a position of weakness in the future, therefore making the problems even worse than they are now.

All that has happened is that any talks that could happen in the future won't include the EU. There are no talks planned. But they spoke as though there are plans to have talks over Gibraltar. Would you like to disagree with me as usual?

You was prematurely celebrating the demise of May. Now you admit it was all bluster. Welcome again to the world where politicians lie.

I have always said that things could get very difficult for us for a few years at least. But then should improve as we find our feet again. But nobody knows.

You pick up on those politicians who show they don't have a clue. But when they say something agai8Brexit or our future suddenly to you they know what they are talking about.

Nobody knows how good or bad it will end up. We can guess. But as I have said all along the trade that the EU countries does with us isn't just a small amount. Millions of jobs depend on it. And as I also said countless times I can't see the EU biting their nose off to spite their face. They made it as hard as they could to get what they could. That was to be expected. If this gets voted down in parliament I don't have a clue if a better deal would be offered or as they call it a hard Brexit. I don't trust any of them to do the right thing.

 

[martcov]

And there is the point.

You don't live in the UK. You have lived in Germany most of your life. Yet you think that you should dictate to those who suffer because of EU rules and regulations.

I still think that we should have voted remain. But I fully understand why most didn't. And I am not going to call them idiots just because I don't like the result.

I retire in 9 years maximum. It looks like it is going to fuck my retirement plans up. But does that mean I should ignore those who suffer? But there again you seem to think everyone does well out of us being in the EU.

I am worried about the people who will unnecessarily suffer if we take a voluntary economic hit through Brexit. Here is an example ( I know, „experts“, „the Independent“ etc.. ). But this is not the only impact report or estimation that shows many people are going to be worse off through Brexit.

Theresa May's Brexit deal could leave UK £100bn poorer in first decade outside EU

Nothing to do with where I live, and I cannot dictate how anyone lives, nor can I vote in UK elections. But, I can be concerned and I can give my opinion, which is not unique, even if some on here don’t like it.

 

[martcov]

Well clearly not as you belief such attributes are not applicable - otherwise you’d be horrified a creature of manipulation and misery is sponsoring a campaign

Your reference to Soros who has not broken the law about campaign donations ( as far as I know ).

As I’ve said Bannon abd all the other obsessives swirling in your paranoid brain are morally no better or worse then Soros, Clegg or the blood stained Blair creature and his Goebells Campbell

So it’s all even on the morality front

So, you are saying that all are equal. Soros with Farage, Mogg, Banks, Wigmore, BoJo, Davis, Fox? You mention Soros a lot, but I don’t see you slamming into the leavers who, in your opinion, are at least morally as bad. They are actually in positions of power and are leading us into a position of political weakness and where we will almost definitely take an economic hit, at least in the short term.

Funny that.

 

[dutchman]

Seeing as most benefit from the EU

If most "benefitted" from the EU they would have voted "Remain", but they didn't. They voted "Leave" which proves that most people in the UK DON'T benefit from EU membership.

 

[dutchman]

Nothing to do with where I live

It's EVERYTHING to do with where you live. You have no idea how ordinary people living in Britain feel.

 

[clint van damme]

If most "benefitted" from the EU they would have voted "Remain", but they didn't. They voted "Leave" which proves that most people in the UK DON'T benefit from EU membership.

But areas that do benefit, for example Cornwall voted leave. Why do you think that was?

 

[dutchman]

But areas that do benefit, for example Cornwall voted leave. Why do you think that was?

I'm not talking about 'areas', I'm talking about the people living in those areas and they don't consider they've benefitted which is why they voted leave.

 

[martcov]

If most "benefitted" from the EU they would have voted "Remain", but they didn't. They voted "Leave" which proves that most people in the UK DON'T benefit from EU membership.

There are plenty of reasons why people voted leave. Here’s background as to how some may have been influenced and why.

Who is the real Nigel Farage... and why won't he answer my questions?

 

[martcov]

I'm not talking about 'areas', I'm talking about the people living in those areas and they don't consider they've benefitted which is why they voted leave.

They may be right that they haven’t benefited. But, they got the reason wrong. The UK is London and the South East, and then the rest. A large part of the rest has been left behind- as confirmed by the latest UN report. They are therefore right to protest, but leaving the EU won’t change that. It will probably make them worse off.

 

[martcov]

It's EVERYTHING to do with where you live. You have no idea how ordinary people living in Britain feel.

Whether I live in the UK or not, ordinary people outside of the wealthier parts have been left behind. Nothing to do with me living in Germany, France or England. I am well aware of what is going on in the UK, even if I don’t live there. I watch UK TV and read UK newspapers and I visit the UK.

 

[Sick Boy]

They may be right that they haven’t benefited. But, they got the reason wrong. The UK is London and the South East, and then the rest. A large part of the rest has been left behind- as confirmed by the latest UN report. They are therefore right to protest, but leaving the EU won’t change that. It will probably make them worse off.

That's whats so tragic about it all, it's not going to make their lives any better. At least eventually it might mean the country has to look at itself rather than blaming others.

 

[dutchman]

That's whats so tragic about it all, it's not going to make their lives any better. At least eventually it might mean the country has to look at itself rather than blaming others.

That has been one of my arguments for the UK leaving all along, even in the days when I was pro-EU.