Motor Vehicle for Robins (2 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Somehow I can't accept people saying the squad is good enough all the way from the PL to the Conference.
It's always the managers fault, so we sack them and abuse them.
Simple for me in that I see the common denominator in all this.
It is underfunding of the squad by the owners.

are you blaming sisu for bringing Kelly back into centre mid and shifting Bayliss out wide? Simple yes or no.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Even there you are wrong though, I wouldn't say they have funded this the same as they didn't fund the recruitment drive in the summer.

League 2 has meant we are much more competitive amongst the other teams naturally off our own (ccfc) back.

Great, now I really stand out as a SISU lover.

 

[italiahorse]

You keep saying lack of quality in depth... How?

By watching the games ?
Inexperience and lacking basic football skills like tracking players, looking for the second ball and inability to play out of defence.

 

[Nick]

By watching the games ?
Inexperience and lacking basic football skills like tracking players, looking for the second ball and inability to play out of defence.

I am saying explain how we don't, name players etc.

If we have no basic football skills, how are we beating teams at the top?

Do you think when a defender brings the ball out, the fact we have 2 x DM's then behind him helps us play out or do you think having one that drives forward with the ball and links it with the strikers helps more?

 

[italiahorse]

are you blaming sisu for bringing Kelly back into centre mid and shifting Bayliss out wide? Simple yes or no.

Nope, I'm judging it on all the games I've watched this season where they failed to be convincing in most.
Not just one game where one of a young player was played in a different position.

 

[dadgad]

Of course it is you idiot.

The feel good factor is in spite of the owners not because of them. You get past the supporters, the squad, Robins himself, the coaching staff and given the benefit of doubt Boddy as well there’s nothing.

Tim Fisher is a negative presence as are the owners. They have nothing to bring to the club other than negativity. Clubs that overachieve like Accrington don’t have this. It’s about the sum of all parts and one vital component in that is missing, so Robins has to overcome it, it ties his hands as he has to compensate for it in other ways. They tie his hands by not supporting him like owners who care about the club and through their of field actions that create uncertainty they tie them again.

The football business is still a business and a business with neglectful owners will always struggle regardless of how capable the employees are. Negativity always always filters down.

Ultimately, yes, it boils down to this and always will until Sisu Do one.
The team (and Robins) are doing incredibly well under intolerable circumstances.
PUSB

 

[clint van damme]

Nope, I'm judging it on all the games I've watched this season where they failed to be convincing in most.
Not just one game where one of a young player was played in a different position.

so when assessing Saturdays, frankly awful performance, which is what I was doing, it seems relevant to pick up on errors, or what I perceive to be errors by Robins.

Down to him no one else.
If you want to do a bit of owner bashing, start a thread of us not knowing where we will be playing next season and I will gladly join in.

 

[Nick]

so when assessing Saturdays, frankly awful performance, which is what I was doing, it seems relevant to pick up on errors, or what I perceive to be errors by Robins.

Down to him no one else.
If you want to do a bit of owner bashing, start a thread of us not knowing where we will be playing next season and I will gladly join in.

That's because you will analyse the game rather than just come away saying "owners fault" and when we win its "robins did good".

 

[italiahorse]

I am saying explain how we don't, name players etc.

If we have no basic football skills, how are we beating teams at the top?

Do you think when a defender brings the ball out, the fact we have 2 x DM's then behind him helps us play out or do you think having one that drives forward with the ball and links it with the strikers helps more?

On Saturday all the left sided defence were watching the ball not the players. Any one of three attackers could have knocked that first goal in.
The second goal we had 4 players heading for their player.A simple pass to a player running in and a undefended shot for the second goal.
The defenders seldom find a midfielder when kicking out and it usually goes to Biamou and then are always second to the resulting ball.
No, basics and inexperience will see us fail.
January was a missed opportunity. (Again)

 

[italiahorse]

so when assessing Saturdays, frankly awful performance, which is what I was doing, it seems relevant to pick up on errors, or what I perceive to be errors by Robins.

Down to him no one else.
If you want to do a bit of owner bashing, start a thread of us not knowing where we will be playing next season and I will gladly join in.

Both their goals were defensive schoolboy errors.
One year basic deal at the Ricoh.

 

[italiahorse]

That's because you will analyse the game rather than just come away saying "owners fault" and when we win its "robins did good despite the owners".

Corrected that for you

 

[Otis]

Well you asked how they were tied, so I responded.

Then you change what you're arguing about, because you don't like the answer that his hands are tied, and claim certain of us are saying it over and over, when the only reason I even responded is because you asked how they were tied!

Can we just call it a tie.

 

[Nick]

On Saturday all the left sided defence were watching the ball not the players. Any one of three attackers could have knocked that first goal in.
The second goal we had 4 players heading for their player.A simple pass to a player running in and a undefended shot for the second goal.
The defenders seldom find a midfielder when kicking out and it usually goes to Biamou and then are always second to the resulting ball.
No, basics and inexperience will see us fail.
January was a missed opportunity. (Again)

Yes, the defenders hoof the ball up to Biamou, who then has to drop back to win a flick on leaving only McNulty. If he does win it and hold it up there is no midfield then making the run to get the ball off him as they are static. We are second to the ball because there's a huge massive gap between midfield and strikers.

The 2nd goal was down to Kelly going over when he didn't need to and leaving his man, the 1st goal was really down to Barrets throw and Stokes clearance.

Even taking their goals out, we never looked like winning the game as we had nothing going forward. He was playing for the draw.

You are talking like it's all defenders and that's what needed replacing in January. How many other teams have potentially 5 decent centre halves?

At what point can a manager have to take responsibility for anything?

 

[clint van damme]

Both their goals were defensive schoolboy errors.
One year basic deal at the Ricoh.

so ultimately the manager must take responsibility.
He's also used a portion of whatever budget he had in January to bring in a clearly unfit player.

As for the one year deal, if that's true it's disappointing because I got the impression it was going to e longer but we'll see.

 

[italiahorse]

so ultimately the manager must take responsibility.
He's also used a portion of whatever budget he had in January to bring in a clearly unfit player.

As for the one year deal, if that's true it's disappointing because I got the impression it was going to e longer but we'll see.

You assuming the budget enabled him to get the players he wanted ?

No long term deal until Sisu stop court action.

 

[Nick]

You assuming the budget enabled him to get the players he wanted ?

No long term deal until Sisu stop court action.

You keep going on about the budget and players he wanted, I am sure he wanted Messi and Ronaldo but that's what makes a decent manager isn't it? Getting the right players, the right system, the right setups against the opposition.

At what point can a manager take responsibility for things that go on in games?

 

[clint van damme]

You assuming the budget enabled him to get the players he wanted ?

No long term deal until Sisu stop court action.

He bought in a player who is clearly well over weight, what budget has to do with that I don't know.
Barrett may turn out to be a gem but I'd suggest we don't have the luxury of giving him time to get up to speed.

 

[Otis]

He bought in a player who is clearly well over weight, what budget has to do with that I don't know.
Barrett may turn out to be a gem but I'd suggest we don't have the luxury of giving him time to get up to speed.

Very disappointing that we have brought someone in who is overweight and unfit.

 

[Astute]

I started reading the first page of this thread and gave up.

We were told we would have a top 8 budget. If it was a top 3 budget then you could complain about us being 8th.

And are we forgetting about the injuries we have had that have lost us good players for most of the season?

Some of you would make a good wife with the amount of moaning you do.

 

[italiahorse]

I started reading the first page of this thread and gave up.

We were told we would have a top 8 budget. If it was a top 3 budget then you could complain about us being 8th.

And are we forgetting about the injuries we have had that have lost us good players for most of the season?

Some of you would make a good wife with the amount of moaning you do.

What time do you want your tea ?

 

[Otis]

What time do you want your tea ?

Yeah and would you like a divorce with that?

 

[Moff]

He never said it in actual words, but SWM is excessively positive on our position and it seems as that all is well.
He sees it as going well and so that when we actually finish where we are it appears accepting mediocrity.

As for Sisu. People should not be quiet on them because the team is doing average or they think they might pull the plug.
Going down the leagues is not acceptable and fans should not forget what's actually happening here.

I don't think Weeman is excessively positive, just glass half full not empty, and as such that is not him accepting mediocrity.

I would rather not be losing to FGR, but its our position at the end of the season that is important, not where we are now. Personally I would rather be in Robins hands than someone like Slade.

Re SISU, I agree, I don't think anyone will forget what they have done, where we are or what has happened, but we are currently where we are and I hope next season we will be one league higher.

 

[ccfcway]

Some of you would make a good wife with the amount of moaning you do.

it would make for a quiet place, "if you don't know whats wrong, i'm not going to tell you"

 

[NorthernWisdom]

so ultimately the manager must take responsibility

Ultimately whoever chose the manager must take responsibility.

There are few shocks in how Robins sets his teams up, from his previous efforts at previous clubs.

(Wonder what career development training managers get at CCFC... other than how to present themselves to the job centre...)

He bought in a player who is clearly well over weight, what budget has to do with that I don't know.

Aren't we always having to find a compromise somewhere?

At a higher level, this is what Benitez used to do with Liverpool - didn't work out with him, either.

Now, personally, I found it refreshing that Robins went for thud and blunder in the summer, players who were solid but fit, rather than the fancy dan pretty boys we had under Mowbray.

Problem is, though, when trying to replace the creative elements in your team, there's always a bit of a gamble, as who wants to let their creative on form players go in January for free? Guess Robins's gamble here is that he can get the players up to fitness quickly enough.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Anyway, I thought this thread was going to be about Robins being given his company Talbot Solara.

 

[skybluetony176]

So if we get relegated it is SISU's fault, but if we get promoted it is nothing to do with SISU? I'm not sure you are quite right with that one...

Sure, what the owners do is largely negative in comparison to their positive influence, but this season with the team that they have funded you cannot say they shouldn't be a top 7 squad really. Injuries have been massively unlucky as it has been our best players, but where we are currently sitting is ok. It's so tight a win and suddenly people will shut up again as we will climb several places.

I don't normally agree with Nick when he has a SISU love-in (joke), but he's right on this one. Overall we are doing fine and players like Biamou are not missing the goal because they are protesting against our move to Northampton in 2013.

If we get relegated SISU and the negativity they bring to the club will be a factor. If we get promoted despite the negativity that they bring to the club it will be in spite of that. Negativity breads negativity and when you have no positive contribution you play no part in the positive things that may occur in spite of that.

It’s pretty simple really.

 

[clint van damme]

it would make for a quiet place, "if you don't know whats wrong, i'm not going to tell you"

why does the post you quoted say it was posted by me? It was Astute!

 

[Otis]

why does the post you quoted say it was posted by me? It was Astute!

Of him to notice?

 

[clint van damme]

Ultimately whoever chose the manager must take responsibility.

There are few shocks in how Robins sets his teams up, from his previous efforts at previous clubs.

(Wonder what career development training managers get at CCFC... other than how to present themselves to the job centre...)

Aren't we always having to find a compromise somewhere?

At a higher level, this is what Benitez used to do with Liverpool - didn't work out with him, either.

Now, personally, I found it refreshing that Robins went for thud and blunder in the summer, players who were solid but fit, rather than the fancy dan pretty boys we had under Mowbray.

Problem is, though, when trying to replace the creative elements in your team, there's always a bit of a gamble, as who wants to let their creative on form players go in January for free? Guess Robins's gamble here is that he can get the players up to fitness quickly enough.

whoever appoints the manager is ultimately responsible I'll agree with that.
But I'm not calling for his head, just questioning certain decisions. People can agree or disagree but trying to push responsibility for playing a player out of position to accommodate a player returning from injury onto the owners is ridiculous.
It is doubtful we will be promoted if we don't improve our away form, I can't see what's wrong in questioning where it's going wrong.

 

[skybluetony176]

Or to repeat once again...

I know we go round this circle every so often, being city fans, but there's always the old philosophy of Brian Clough, who reckoned if a manager needed sacking, then the board who appointed him needed to go too, as they clearly couldn't judge what was a good manager.

It's also true that just about every manager we've tried in recent years has had success somewhere... but the downward spiral continues with the club, regardless. The constant of course is always who owns the club.

Now, that doesn't invalidate your analysis of Robins's strengths and weaknesses, not in the slightest. Fans of Barnsley said to expect a negative manager and it seems to be in his make-up to build from a position of 'don't lose' first. That being said, given the level we're at it's not altogether surprising that managers have flaws too, much as players do.

And those flaws would have been obvious to any clued-up owners too, and they'd judge he was the man despite those flaws.

The path to madness is doing the same thing time over time again, and it's probably why most football clubs end up lurching from crisis to crisis as they go for the easy option, sacking the manager.

Personally I feel we absolutly have to get promotion this season, or the downward trend will threaten to carry on again. That being said, if we don't...there may indeed be flaws we can point to with Robins, but the culture of the club suggests it's more that any success we get is despite of the club we are, rather than because. Robins is the least of our worries or concerns if we fail yet again.

Agree with all that and share your fears of what will happen if we don’t go up this season. The major worry is that the velocity of the downward trend has only ever increased under SISU. We left league one in the wrong direction under their stewardship a hell of a lot quicker than we left the championship in the wrong direction under their stewardship. If the pattern of their stewardship continue and we don’t break that and go up this season you have to question how long it will be until we drop out of the league if we remain under their stewardship.

 

[clint van damme]

Agree with all that and share your fears of what will happen if we don’t go up this season. The major worry is that the velocity of the downward trend has only ever increased under SISU. We left league one in the wrong direction under their stewardship a hell of a lot quicker than we left the championship in the wrong direction under their stewardship. If the pattern of their stewardship continue and we don’t break that and go up this season you have to question how long it will be until we drop out of the league if we remain under their stewardship.

I don't disagree with any of that which is why I want Robins to sort our away form out!! This year is probably aare best chance.

 

[Grendel]

So the team is good enough in your mind and has strength in depth ?
The owners have put enough money into the squad ?

The squad is clearly strong enough. We have a big squad of defenders and midfielders more than capable of competing.

We had 2 key players out for the season but have overcome that.

We are light upfront but robins has to shoulder the blame for retaining Beavon on a 2 year deal.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Whilst I have not a jot of sympathy for SISU, Seppala or Fisher it is not as simple as the owners throwing money in to the team. I saw Burton mentioned on another thread so took a look at their financials. Bear in mind that CCFC turnover could easily be 4.5m this season.

Burton got promoted as L2 champions 2014/15 season on a turnover of 2.7m (including player sales) and a total wage bill of £2.6m. in that year they made a loss of 455k They own their ground and that year had total debts/liabilities of £1.6m but net balance sheet assets of £5.1m

The following year 2015/16 season they were promoted as L1 runners up to the Championship on a turnover of 4.2m (including player sales) and a total wage bill of 3.7m. In that year they made a loss of £10k Total liabilities remained at £1.6m and the balance sheet was positive at 5.1m still

Given the owners do not appear to be making big loans to Burton you could easily argue that their managers had their hands tied in what they could spend and started from a smaller pot than CCFC currently have. Yet they succeeded

2014/15 CCFC had a turnover of £4.7m and total wages costs £5m. In 2015/16 a turnover of £5.4m and total wages costs of £4.3m . The CCFC turnover doesn't include player sales which were 2014/15 2.7m and 2015/16 2.5m. Hard to argue that funds were not there despite arguments that our only income is match day tickets (totally false of course). Despite those incomes CCFC made losses of 2.4m in 2014/15 and 1.7m in 2015/16. Just to be clear there is no evidence of large sums being taken back out by the owners in 2014/15 or 2015/16 financial statements. CCFC failed despite a pot of finance big enough for other clubs to succeed

It is not, nor ever has been, just about owners willingness or not to put money in. The crucial point would seem to be how is the money that is available spent. The managers we have had (including Robins) all seem to have been in control of the playing staff they have brought in. They are all clearly responsible for the teams they pick and style of play. It may be that more money from SISU could have improved things but it is not guaranteed, we could have ended up in exactly the same place. We had sufficient funds to compete - we haven't for many reasons , not just a single one ie the owners. We should be doing better than we are if it were only based on finance even without further loans from the owners

 

[skybluetony176]

Anderson is well regarded in football circles, he wasn't a bad appointment per se and had nothing to do with the decline in form.

I beg to differ. Read his philosophy and then see how that started changing our approach the moment and I do mean moment he arrived. First game with him here was Northampton at home in the cup. Look at the stats and see when we made our first substitution, then read what CA claims to be the best time to make a substitution. It’s to the minute. I think it’s naive to say the least to assume he wasn’t interfering in what until then was a fantastic team that rarely came in for criticism to a team that fell away dramatically. I know he didn’t leave officially until September but he seemed to disappear/go quite much sooner than that and that also saw a return to early season form and meant that we only just finished outside the playoffs.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

If we get relegated SISU and the negativity they bring to the club will be a factor. If we get promoted despite the negativity that they bring to the club it will be in spite of that. Negativity breads negativity and when you have no positive contribution you play no part in the positive things that may occur in spite of that.

It’s pretty simple really.

They may be shit owners but they have at least given us a playing budget which is competitive. If we get promoted it will go some way in saying what they have given us is good enough. I wouldn't agree on sacking Robins if we don't go up this year but a lot of people do. Surely that means they think the tools he has this year are good enough.

At the end of the day the owners are generally shit, but they are not responsible for what tactics Robins uses at FGR. On paper we are winning that game.

It's pretty simple really.