The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Apparently not - from the BBC news website today:
International banks plan pre-Brexit moves from London
International banks plan pre-Brexit moves from London - BBC News

So what??? Greedy selfish luvvies move out & proper community workers/people move in & bring a vibrancy back to what otherwise becomes a soulless empty area on weekends. The banks only operate from offices here in the UK. The money goes wherever the investors in the bank live

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[Astute]

Why are people shocked that the remaining EU countries are acting in their own best interests rather than ours?

If only it was true.

So what would the other countries gain by high tariffs on goods sold between each of us when we buy much more than we sell? It is all about egos on people trying not to let the boat rock on the gravy train. Have you seen what they get paid and what the pension Bill for them is? And people from many of the countries have had enough.

 

[ccfc92]

Why are people shocked that the remaining EU countries are acting in their own best interests rather than ours?

Would you say countries like Greece are getting a look in?

 

[Astute]

I wasn't aware that Junker will now be deciding for the rest of the 27 parliaments?!! When was this announced?

So the bigoted idiot doesn't have a say?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Eh? Barclays are going to Dublin, as are Standard Charter, Lloyds to Berlin and HSBC to Paris.JP Morgan splitting between Frankfurt and Dublin, Morgan Stanley and Citigroup the same, Goldman Sachs to Frankfurt and Credit Suisse to Dublin.

It would be a big problem for people who ended up with negative equity, especially if the drop in the housing market was a result of economic uncertainly and threat to jobs.

Negative equity only counts if they are looking to upsize for personal reasons like starting a family. If it's just for show (bigger posher house & similar) well tough. They have to stay put don't they? A humbling experience for a fair number of people wouldn't be a bad thing

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[Astute]

Would you say countries like Greece are getting a look in?

Their economies are getting obliterated. But it is OK because they can't afford to leave.

 

[Astute]

Negative equity only counts if they are looking to upsize for personal reasons like starting a family. If it's just for show (bigger posher house & similar) well tough. They have to stay put don't they? A humbling experience for a fair number of people wouldn't be a bad thing

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It wouldn't be good for many. But multiples would gain.

 

[chiefdave]

Negative equity only counts if they are looking to upsize for personal reasons like starting a family. If it's just for show (bigger posher house & similar) well tough. They have to stay put don't they? A humbling experience for a fair number of people wouldn't be a bad thing

What about people who lose their jobs or become ill. They can't afford to pay their mortgage so need to sell but they can't sell for enough to pay off their mortgage.

 

[chiefdave]

Their economies are getting obliterated. But it is OK because they can't afford to leave.

We're managing to match them for retraction.

 

[Monners]

So what??? Greedy selfish luvvies move out & proper community workers/people move in & bring a vibrancy back to what otherwise becomes a soulless empty area on weekends. The banks only operate from offices here in the UK. The money goes wherever the investors in the bank live

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It was in response to Astute's point - the banks, and other organisations are starting to plan relocation. The banks employ thousands of people - not everyone of these is a Gordon Gecko type nd will lose their jobs.

I ask again - where is the economic benefit of leaving the EU - I still don't see it. No-one seems able to explain (I mean in my real world, not on here).

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you.

Well, I voted remain...but can see positives in exiting too. The point is we ARE going...so instead of seeking & spouting potential negatives - seek the positives, you might be amazed how much money YOU could make from all this

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[Sick Boy]

Their economies are getting obliterated. But it is OK because they can't afford to leave.

Dosent the UK have the same wage growth as Greece in recent years? I suppose that's the fault of the EU as well hahaha

 

[Sick Boy]

Well, I voted remain...but can see positives in exiting too. The point is we ARE going...so instead of seeking & spouting potential negatives - seek the positives, you might be amad how much money YOU could make from all this

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I will be enjoying la bella vita, thanks very much and actually be a lot better off compared to being in southern England.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So Germany should carry on deciding our future?

No...they have an influence on it. Just like the UK influences their decisions. Despite public rhetoric a win-win is the objective for all sides.

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[ccfc92]

I will be enjoying la bella vita, thanks very much!

Why are you so concerned then lol? Genuine question

 

[Sick Boy]

Why are you so concerned then lol? Genuine question

It is the country of my birth and I am concerned with the current state and future of the health service as my parent's get older.

Despite all the rubbish that gets spouted about remain voters being traitors and unpatriotic, it saddens me as I genuinely believe it is a massive mistake that will drastically change the country for the worse in the long-run. I will also take no pleasure it turns out that way, BTW.

 

[Astute]

What about people who lose their jobs or become ill. They can't afford to pay their mortgage so need to sell but they can't sell for enough to pay off their mortgage.

But what about those who have good jobs but can't afford to save because of high rents. Something has to change.

Even Sick Boy says he can't afford to save for a deposit. But he won't admit why prices are too high.

I bought my 1st house for 26k. A nice 3 bed semi in a nice area. Was less than 1.5x my wage on a 10 year mortgage. Now people need to be x5 on average. That was only about 25 years ago.

 

[Sick Boy]

But what about those who have good jobs but can't afford to save because of high rents. Something has to change.

Even Sick Boy says he can't afford to save for a deposit. But he won't admit why prices are too high.

I bought my 1st house for 26k. A nice 3 bed semi in a nice area. Was less than 1.5x my wage on a 10 year mortgage. Now people need to be x5 on average. That was only about 25 years ago.

I blame the lack of affordable housing being built and built to let landlords. I most certainly don't blame 3m out of 65m for all of the problems in the country.

I presume there were the same claims being made with migration in the 70s.

 

[ccfc92]

It is the country of my birth and I am concerned with the current state and future of the health service as my parent's get older.

Then why the "see, told you Brexit would fail" attitude?

I'm not specifically having a pop at you, I mean in general. Rather than bickering amongst ourselves and "yeah,but..." debate sensibly about a prosperous Britain?

Points raised from both sides are valid. As a "Leave voter", I regularly agree with some/a lot of what you or Mart say. However, I disagree with some

EDIT!!!!!: I meant not specifically :joyful:

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So you don't know what it is all about?

Just in case.....we want control of our borders. Juncker says we can't just pick what we want. All or nothing he says. So out it is. And his threats won't work.

What he says & what he accepts are not necessarily one in the same though are they?
It's all rhetoric atm

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[Sick Boy]

Then why the "see, told you Brexit would fail" attitude?

I'm not specifically having a pop at you, I mean in general. Rather than bickering amongst ourselves and "yeah,but..." debate sensibly about a prosperous Britain?

Points raised from both sides are valid. As a "Leave voter", I regularly agree with some/a lot of what you or Mart say. However, I disagree with some

EDIT!!!!!: I meant not specifically :joyful:

It hasn't even happened yet and it doesn't look like it is going to go how we were told it would do.

Some of the attitudes of leave voters and the press have been anything but offering reconciliation either, btw.

Debating a prosperous Britain would be like ignoring the potential and very real issues that (IMO) will be coming the UK's way and thinking the whole thing is risk free.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Is Brexit 100% going ahead? Like, say Labour won the GE, could they go back on Article 50?

Probably not without creating a constitutional crisis

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[chiefdave]

But what about those who have good jobs but can't afford to save because of high rents. Something has to change.

Under this government we've had the lowest rate of housebuilding since the 1920's and under May's term as Home Secretary we had the highest level of net migration in history.

They also voted against laws to ensure rental properties were fit for human habitation.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

To be a successful economy the UK will need to continue to trade with the world's largest trading bloc, which means meeting certain regulations, which it will have no influence over.

What stops us trading most successfully with India, China, Canada & the USA...uninhibited by the EU - we might make a real killing...coz that is one hell of a trading bloc

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[Sick Boy]

What stops us trading most successfully with India, China, Canada & the USA...uninhibited by the EU - we might make a real killing...coz that is one hell of a trading bloc

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What do you propose we sell them? Genuine question?

 

[Grendel]

Is Brexit 100% going ahead? Like, say Labour won the GE, could they go back on Article 50?

May was always in favour of the EU but knows she has to honour the will of the people.

Corbyn, like all real socialists, despises it and wants out.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

OK, fair enough, maybe I wasn't being clear enough. I don't think all leave voters are racists. I do however believe we have an increasing problem with racists in this country emboldened by the leave vote who won't listen to evidence. If these people are forced to change their way of thinking due to the inevitable negative effects of a potential hard brexit then I think that's a good thing.

No deal = probable UK win
'Soft' Brexit = everyone wins
'Hard' Brexit = no winners

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[SkyblueBazza]

Britain had numerous opt outs and rebates, it also kept the £. It is all online for you to research.

Well now can opt in to suit ourselves, make as much money elsewhere in the world as we like, & STILL keep the pound...you've sold it to me!

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[Grendel]

What about people who lose their jobs or become ill. They can't afford to pay their mortgage so need to sell but they can't sell for enough to pay off their mortgage.

They get evicted. As many many more would if the EU had insisted we remained in the European Exchange Mechanism when interest rates ballooned to 15%

 

[SkyblueBazza]

If only it was true.

So what would the other countries gain by high tariffs on goods sold between each of us when we buy much more than we sell? It is all about egos on people trying not to let the boat rock on the gravy train. Have you seen what they get paid and what the pension Bill for them is? And people from many of the countries have had enough.

Tit-for-tat tariffs will only balance out at the end of the day...so why would either party go that route?

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[Astute]

Some of the attitudes of leave voters and the press have been anything but offering reconciliation either, btw.

Some of yes. Just like remain voters.

I think that I would be better off remaining. But leaving would be better for my kids and grandchildren. I am not complaining on what I could lose. Many remainers are.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What about people who lose their jobs or become ill. They can't afford to pay their mortgage so need to sell but they can't sell for enough to pay off their mortgage.

Yes...on every issue such arguments can be levelled. It is a sad fact of life...& no doubt there would be some scheme set up to support them in some way. But the majority of homeowners will not be losing their jobs!

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[chiefdave]

What stops us trading most successfully with India, China, Canada & the USA...uninhibited by the EU - we might make a real killing...coz that is one hell of a trading bloc

Well the US Commerce Secretary has already said a deal with the UK is a low priority and a free trade agreement with the EU is more important.

Canada will likely be more responsive but CETA took 8 years.

Onto India then, who was it that sunk the EU / India trade deal by refusing to accept Mode 4? That would be May. Do you think she will now u-turn and allow virtually unlimited immigration from India which will be a pre-requisite of any deal. And if she does how does that tie with us leaving the EU to have 'control of our borders'.

That leaves China. The likelihood, even discounting the fact we have monumentally pissed off President Xi by voting leave after he pushed the UK as the dominant EU member for Chinese trade, is that they will prioritise the EU as any rules of origin loopholes that could provide the Chinese access to the EU via the UK are likely to be closed. Although Xi is unpredictable so anything could happen then.

Not trying to be pessimistic but I think the process is going to be a lot more difficult and take a to longer than people are expecting.

 

[Astute]

What do you propose we sell them? Genuine question?

Quality items that their rich could buy. They are not a poor nation anymore. But they are run like the EU. Most of their money goes to a small % of who runs their country.

 

[ccfc92]

May was always in favour of the EU but knows she has to honour the will of the people.

Corbyn, like all real socialists, despises it and wants out.

I did always find it odd, that she took over, as she's "Pro-EU"