The end of Sisu? (3 Viewers)

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
Had an interesting conversation with a financial analyst I know who works in the City (London). He specialises in hedge funds.

Sisu Capital have for a number of years hit big problems as a hedge fund. They hit the jackpot back in the late 90s/00s with their portfolio picking up companies in distress and either making sure creditors got full payouts, stripped businesses for any equity value or sold them on for profit with minimum investment. Primarily it was about restructuring bad debt and handsome payouts for their investors. They had a lucky patch to say the least.

However, in recent times their luck seems to have run out. Apparently a lot of their major investors have pulled the plug on funding Sisu with ventures and their portfolio of distressed companies. Especially during the financial crisis in the last decade. Back in the day it was seen as a good idea to buy troubled football clubs, hence why they looked at Man City and Saints. They stupidly purchased CCFC a few years before the financial crash. The worst possible investment they could make.

Their investors are not known and is the case in the secretive hedge fund world. They come from all over the world and tangled up in the Cayman island web of secrecy.

Sisu losing their investors has meant serious restructuring of their portfolio to make ends meet. One recent sell off this year was air conditioning company Airinotec to German investment fund Abacus Alpha.

Sisu are currently in a dumping of assets mode and selling of parts of their portfolio. There's not much left on their books apprently.

Sisu as a business and as a hedge fund are not well respected in the investment circles these days. They were an upcoming hedge fund star back in the day but their status has fallen. Basically nobody in the City takes any notice of them anymore. "They're not a player anymore". Joy Seppala's 'stock' is not great anymore and that hurts in financial circles of hedge fund owners. It doesn't attract investors...a killer for a hedge fund.

Due to failing investments and shrinking of their portfolio, Sisu's management fees have been reducing, profits are hardly noticeable and losing money.

I was told that it's a surprise CCFC was not sold off a few years ago as it's the one investment in the portfolio which is seriously straining their business. Investors in CCFC have pulled the plug and Sisu have been looking for new investors. Those investors would have taken a loss or took what they could. They have not been forthcoming and that's why the likes of Brody popped up. He isn't a major player or investor. 'Probably put £50k or so into the investment pot'. The original investors in CCFC have moved on and pulled the plug a while back. The club had to move to being self funding.

I mentioned the current issue of asset stripping in the club...the answer I got was well if the holding company owns Ryton and now land is a prime asset, Sisu will look to cash this in. There isn't anything left of the club asset wise to get money from. They had a go with early investment but that pot of money ran out. Considering their management fees have reduced or frozen they need instant cash accessibility through either player sales or land deals. This also helps pay the remaining investors.

Overall, Sisu have been left with the white elephant in the room... CCFC. The hedge fund is in dramatic free fall as a business and not really making money. CCFC really is their last hope of trying to pull off a spectacular deal from somewhere...but they have failed. They failed to get the Ricoh, failed with promotion to the Premiership, lost investors, can't put money into the club. Club is going one way and that's to L2 now. They now have a company on their books which is a portfolio killer. But how will they recoup original investment money? They can't as the club is now worth less and they failed to build CCFC with assets such as a stadium.

As my contact said...'they won't be hanging around for much longer. They can't afford it and nobody trusts their money to be invested with them anymore'.

If they can't find new investors to pull CCFC up and build assets they will dump. He said it wouldn't surprise me if another hedge fund acquired what's left of Sisu and that means they take on CCFC.

We wait and see...
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Fucking brilliant!

PS Surely you meant Brody put £500,000 in not £50K...
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Had an interesting conversation with a financial analyst I know who works in the City (London). He specialises in hedge funds.

Sisu Capital have for a number of years hit big problems as a hedge fund. They hit the jackpot back in the late 90s/00s with their portfolio picking up companies in distress and either making sure creditors got full payouts, stripped businesses for any equity value or sold them on for profit with minimum investment. Primarily it was about restructuring bad debt and handsome payouts for their investors. They had a lucky patch to say the least.

However, in recent times their luck seems to have run out. Apparently a lot of their major investors have pulled the plug on funding Sisu with ventures and their portfolio of distressed companies. Especially during the financial crisis in the last decade.

Their investors are not known and is the case in the secretive hedge fund world. They come from all over the world and tangled up in the Cayman island web of secrecy.

Sisu losing their investors has meant serious restructuring of their portfolio to make ends meet. One recent sell off this year was air conditioning company Airinotec to German investment fund Abacus Alpha.

Sisu are currently in a dumping of assets mode and selling of parts of their portfolio. There's not much left on their books apprently.

Sisu as a business and as a hedge fund are not well respected in the investment circles these days. They were an upcoming hedge fund star back in the day but their status has fallen. Basically nobody in the City takes any notice of them anymore. "They're not a player anymore". Joy Seppala's 'stock' is not great anymore and that hurts in financial circles of hedge fund owners. It doesn't attract investors...a killer for a hedge fund.

Due to failing investments and shrinking of their portfolio, Sisu's management fees have been reducing, profits are hardly noticeable and losing money.

I was told that it's a surprise CCFC was not sold off a few years ago as it's the one investment in the portfolio which is seriously straining their business. Investors in CCFC have pulled the plug and Sisu have been looking for new investors. Those investors would have taken a loss or took what they could. They have not been forthcoming and that's why the likes of Brody popped up. He isn't a major player or investor. 'Probably put £50k or so into the investment pot'. The original investors in CCFC have moved on and pulled the plug a while back. The club had to move to being self funding.

I mentioned the current issue of asset stripping in the club...the answer I got was well if the holding company owns Ryton and now land is a prime asset, Sisu will look to cash this in. There isn't anything left of the club asset wise to get money from. They had a go with early investment but that pot of money ran out. Considering their management fees have reduced or frozen they need instant cash accessibility through either player sales or land deals. This also helps pay the remaining investors.

Overall, Sisu have been left with the white elephant in the room... CCFC. The hedge fund is in dramatic free fall as a business and not really making money. CCFC really is their last hope of trying to pull off a spectacular deal from somewhere...but they have failed. They failed to get the Ricoh, failed with promotion to the Premiership, lost investors, can't put money into the club. Club is going one way and that's to L2 now. They now have a company on their books which is a portfolio killer. But how will they recoup original investment money? They can't as the club is now worth less and they failed to build CCFC with assets such as a stadium.

As my contact said...'they won't be hanging around for much longer. They can't afford it and nobody trusts their money to be invested with them anymore'.

If they can't find new investors to pull CCFC up and build assets they will dump. He said it wouldn't surprise me if another hedge fund acquired what's left of Sisu and that means they take on CCFC.

We wait and see...

That sounds about right and makes sense.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Very interesting. God help them if ccfc is their last chance of pulling of a spectacular deal, even if they sold thr training ground for £2m thats dwarfed but the amount of losses they have make.

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AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention...he told me they have downsized their operations and moved to 'smaller premises' in London...
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Very interesting. God help them if ccfc is their last chance of pulling of a spectacular deal, even if they sold thr training ground for £2m thats dwarfed but the amount of losses they have make.

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Their losses or their investors losses. How much money have SISU invested vs how much money have they invested for other people prepared to take a risk. As suggested those investors have long walked. CCFC now running at break even, at least recently. But I can see that going into nose dive with current form.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Fucking brilliant!

PS Surely you meant Brody put £500,000 in not £50K...

Can't see anything brilliant in that at all. What I see is administration asset selling prior to that and a club in a rugby community that no one will want.

Be a dilemma for likes of nopm lot. Certain relegation but no more sisu - sure of a full house for the rest of the season.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Their losses or their investors losses. How much money have SISU invested vs how much money have they invested for other people prepared to take a risk. As suggested those investors have long walked. CCFC now running at break even, at least recently. But I can see that going into nose dive with current form.

We lost £3 million last season - we are not break even.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Problem they have going forward is who in their right mind would do business with them , change the name do whatever but as soon as people see who runs the operation it's a no no .
Hate them , it's been a disastrous 9 years
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Can't see anything brilliant in that at all. What I see is administration asset selling prior to that and a club in a rugby community that no one will want.

Be a dilemma for likes of nopm lot. Certain relegation but no more sisu - sure of a full house for the rest of the season.

Brilliant research, brilliant we finally get rid of these bastards. We need a new start even if it is in L2 (I think now it probably will be).
 

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
Fucking brilliant!

PS Surely you meant Brody put £500,000 in not £50K...

Nope...to put it mildly he said an investor late to the game like Brody would be a nut job to put anything more than £50k into a failing business like CCFC. We don't know the exact figure but it wouldn't be a massive amount.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I couldn't say one way or the other if there's any truth in the OP but to me it could make sense. I keep suggesting that the reason they never made a serious bid for the Ricoh when invited is because they couldn't raise the capital. The OP certainly ties in with that. It also ties in with the apparent no win no fee litigation. Because they don't have the backing to fund the purchase of the Ricoh why would they have the backing to fund the litigation. Might also explain the latest work from the CT. Maybe just maybe they've done some investigating an know that the jig is up for SISU so are taking the opportunity to get the final shot in.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Nope...to put it mildly he said an investor late to the game like Brody would be a nut job to put anything more than £50k into a failing business like CCFC. We don't know the exact figure but it wouldn't be a massive amount.
Wow!

Actually I'm finding it hard to think that the other investors would give someone 4% for £50K when they are in the hole for millions. They generally don't like too much portfolio dilution, still I guess that is less important when its all falling apart.
 
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stupot07

Well-Known Member
Their losses or their investors losses. How much money have SISU invested vs how much money have they invested for other people prepared to take a risk. As suggested those investors have long walked. CCFC now running at break even, at least recently. But I can see that going into nose dive with current form.

The last accounts show we don't break even. And have continued to lose money since administration. If sisu's turnover is around £1m (singerspores thread) and only making £400k losses, who are continuing to prop up the club if there are no investors investing through sisu? Yes, AFC says investors have walked away but I'd hazard a guess not all of them have.



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Grendel

Well-Known Member
You mean they lied to us? Tinkers.

No - they openly admitted they had to loan the club money last season to fill a hole in the accounts.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I couldn't say one way or the other if there's any truth in the OP but to me it could make sense. I keep suggesting that the reason they never made a serious bid for the Ricoh when invited is because they couldn't raise the capital. The OP certainly ties in with that. It also ties in with the apparent no win no fee litigation. Because they don't have the backing to fund the purchase of the Ricoh why would they have the backing to fund the litigation. Might also explain the latest work from the CT. Maybe just maybe they've done some investigating an know that the jig is up for SISU so are taking the opportunity to get the final shot in.

Sisu didn't buy the Ricoh as the head of the strategy didn't want to. He advised the investment would work better without purchase.
 

Nick

Administrator
Interesting, I have been saying we need to speak to somebody in their world.

Does he know more about any other investments they have other than Airinotec or their investors? Obviously secret but you can bet that people talk and have ideas about who is investing where.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention...he told me they have downsized their operations and moved to 'smaller premises' in London...

They've certainly moved last November to Kensington High Street

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03413843/filing-history

Couldn't tell you if that's downsizing or not or even a worse postcode or not. Certainly doesn't sound as glamorous. I'm visualising (rightly or wrongly) a dingy office with a shared kitchen and toilet above a bookies ;)
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
As proven , it was a superb decision ...bravo

The strategy was entirely down to ranson. From what I recall he was rather popular in these parts.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
The last accounts show we don't break even. And have continued to lose money since administration. If sisu's turnover is around £1m (singerspores thread) and only making £400k losses, who are continuing to prop up the club if there are no investors investing through sisu? Yes, AFC says investors have walked away but I'd hazard a guess not all of them have.



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I didn't word it very well, but there was a strategy change to achieve break even and for the club to stand alone on its own feet.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Nice to hear that SISU are being hurt away from CCFC. Let's pack the Ricoh and support the team to show new owners we have potential while putting pressure on Wasps and CCC to do a massively favourable deal with them.

Happy SISU are screwed but we have many more battles to fight when we're finally rid of them.
 

Nick

Administrator
They've certainly moved last November to Kensington High Street

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03413843/filing-history

Couldn't tell you if that's downsizing or not or even a worse postcode or not. Certainly doesn't sound as glamorous. I'm visualising (rightly or wrongly) a dingy office with a shared kitchen and toilet above a bookies ;)

Streetmapped it but cant see the numbers. Sadly the toilet room is probably worth a million knowing the silliness down there :(
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
They've certainly moved last November to Kensington High Street

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03413843/filing-history

Couldn't tell you if that's downsizing or not or even a worse postcode or not. Certainly doesn't sound as glamorous. I'm visualising (rightly or wrongly) a dingy office with a shared kitchen and toilet above a bookies ;)

Even if dingy, Kensington is still not cheap!

Have a car parking space

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-space-on-the-market-for-350000-a6939011.html
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
No - they openly admitted they had to loan the club money last season to fill a hole in the accounts.

Yes I know that, but Fisher way before that claimed we were debt free and breaking even. Just like Joy had the final say and studied the budget before giving the OK. So the theory it was all Waggotts mis calculation is wrong.
 

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