Actual Nazis in America (2 Viewers)

Nick

Administrator
On the subject of Nazis, has anybody ever noticed those gold swastica type patterns above front doors?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
These aren't 150 year old statues though, most were put up in the 20s as a reaction against black people's rights and were part of a wave of racism that created segregation and a massive rise in KKK membership. Some of them went up in the 1980s ffs. I'm not arguing that they should be destroyed and history wiped clean but they should be put into a museum where they can be viewed in context as part of the period the came from, including the civil war, Jim Crow and the civil rights movement. They shouldn't be, literally, put on a pedestal to be admired without context.

Robert E. Lee is an interesting character too, I've read a decent bit about him and he wasn't particularly pro slavery and even considered fighting the war on the side of the union but ended up going with the confederacy because his home state of Virginia did and he, above all else, saw himself as a Virginian. The US national cemetery at Arlington was built on his estate. People are getting upset about the removal of statues of Nathan Bedford Forest though, a general who in the civil war refused to take black prisoners and so executed any that surrendered. How can you legitimately have a statue of this man standing proud in any city in the modern world.

I'm not disputing if these people are 'good' or 'bad', I am just saying that members of the public should not be going around taking down statues because they don't agree with them.

You know, Jimmy Hill got rid of the salary cap, let's rip his down. Where does it stop?

It's just a bunch of spoiled babies who think they are above everyone else.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
I'm not disputing if these people are 'good' or 'bad', I am just saying that members of the public should not be going around taking down statues because they don't agree with them.

You know, Jimmy Hill got rid of the salary cap, let's rip his down. Where does it stop?

It's just a bunch of spoiled babies who think they are above everyone else.
It's not members of the public though is it, it's elected town councils deciding they don't want to be represented by these men any more.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
as usual you're wrong, I don't think they're a bunch of angels, I'm just realistic enough to know that they can't be if they're going to go up against a bunch of right wing fanatics armed to the teeth - but you keep telling yourself both sides are as bad.

Then why are you backing them all the time? Why are you acting oblivious to the wave of violence and chaos they have unleashed since Trump was elected, and largely towards innocent people?

The thing you don't get is that maybe once upon a time the Nazi's were a threat, but now they are basically nothing, apart from this whipped up frenzy from Charlottesville that has been in the news consistently since it happened, bypassing numerous terrorist atrocities and other far left violent incidents that have taken place in the meantime.

Your modern day Nazi presents a lot less risk to the public than your modern day Antifa warrior. Even if the viewpoints of the former are disgraceful. Thankfully, due to the horrific incidents of WW2, Nazism will never, ever prosper again. Due to those times though, any moment that it rears its head (like it did in Charlottesville) in the slightest capacity, people lose their minds and start hitting the panic button.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
It's not members of the public though is it, it's elected town councils deciding they don't want to be represented by these men any more.

It is members of the public, usually Antifa.

Monument in Portland, vandalised by Antifa:

1503089497-image1.jpg


Here's another dude from Antifa trying to rip down a statue in Atlanta, which actually turned out to be a peace monument:

monument-3-cc.jpg
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Then why are you backing them all the time? Why are you acting oblivious to the wave of violence and chaos they have unleashed since Trump was elected, and largely towards innocent people?

The thing you don't get is that maybe once upon a time the Nazi's were a threat, but now they are basically nothing, apart from this whipped up frenzy from Charlottesville that has been in the news consistently since it happened, bypassing numerous terrorist atrocities and other far left violent incidents that have taken place in the meantime.

Your modern day Nazi presents a lot less risk to the public than your modern day Antifa warrior. Even if the viewpoints of the former are disgraceful. Thankfully, due to the horrific incidents of WW2, Nazism will never, ever prosper again. Due to those times though, any moment that it rears its head (like it did in Charlottesville) in the slightest capacity, people lose their minds and start hitting the panic button.

you talk utter nonsense.
As I said i another post, you are 3 times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime in the USA if you are black than if you're white. Strange that since there's been a wave of violence and chaos unleashed against trumps supporters since his election.
Who do you think are carrying out those attacks on black Americans?
You're an apologist for these white supremacists, I'm not sure if the fact you don't seem to realise it makes that worse or not.
Could you also let me know what left wing terrorist atrocities you are referring to?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I'm not disputing if these people are 'good' or 'bad', I am just saying that members of the public should not be going around taking down statues because they don't agree with them.

You know, Jimmy Hill got rid of the salary cap, let's rip his down. Where does it stop?

It's just a bunch of spoiled babies who think they are above everyone else.

your comparing the salary cap to putting people into slavery - fucks sake!!
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
you talk utter nonsense.
As I said i another post, you are 3 times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime in the USA if you are black than if you're white. Strange that since there's been a wave of violence and chaos unleashed against trumps supporters since his election.
Who do you think are carrying out those attacks on black Americans?
You're an apologist for these white supremacists, I'm not sure if the fact you don't seem to realise it makes that worse or not.
Could you also let me know what left wing terrorist atrocities you are referring to?
your comparing the salary cap to putting people into slavery - fucks sake!!

The only reason you're so angry is because the argument is so rational, and you've completely lost it.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
The only reason you're so angry is because the argument is so rational, and you've completely lost it.

im not angry. youre wrong again.
i think the protestors in charlottwsville were right to stand up to white supremacists you dont.
im not comfortable with white supremacists marching down the srreet armed to the teeth yiu are.
i dont agree with your position.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
The statue is not the real problem. Just a convenient excuse. They, the Nazis, were there to make a show of force and encourage others to come out and express their nazi opinions. Nazism is the contrary to free speech and tolerance. Trump should have slammed into them... but he put them on an equal footing with the people protesting Nazism by claiming many sides were at fault. The Nazis are now emboldened. There will be more of them and more violence and hate against minorities. Trump is a buffoon and is not fit to lead a country. No amount of deflection to the Antifa - which is not what the demonstration of force was about - will make Trump into a sane, intelligent leader of a democratic country. So Earlsdon is wasting his time.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
On the subject of Nazis, has anybody ever noticed those gold swastica type patterns above front doors?


The swastika itself is not the problem- see the grave of the bishop in the old cathedral. The bishop is wearing a robe ordained with swastikas. Hitler took the symbol and turned it round. It is the use of the reversed swastika by the people using it to symbolize an anti Semitic racist movement that is the problem. It was used as the flag of the NSDAP and later adopted as the national flag of Germany after the Nazis had taken power.

Any attempt to build a movement using this symbol should be nipped in the bud, not put in the same category as other people protesting it's use.
 

Nick

Administrator
The swastika itself is not the problem- see the grave of the bishop in the old cathedral. The bishop is wearing a robe ordained with swastikas. Hitler took the symbol and turned it round. It is the use of the reversed swastika by the people using it to symbolize an anti Semitic racist movement that is the problem. It was used as the flag of the NSDAP and later adopted as the national flag of Germany after the Nazis had taken power.

Any attempt to build a movement using this symbol should be nipped in the bud, not put in the same category as other people protesting it's use.

I don't get why they have it on their door though? It isn't a full on thing, it's just the same shape in gold on the top of their door frame. 2 houses next to each other have it, I think they are an asian family too so hardly goose stepping about.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
The swastika itself is not the problem- see the grave of the bishop in the old cathedral. The bishop is wearing a robe ordained with swastikas. Hitler took the symbol and turned it round. It is the use of the reversed swastika by the people using it to symbolize an anti Semitic racist movement that is the problem. It was used as the flag of the NSDAP and later adopted as the national flag of Germany after the Nazis had taken power.

Any attempt to build a movement using this symbol should be nipped in the bud, not put in the same category as other people protesting it's use.
Pretty sure it started out in Indian culture, possibly religious, a benign symbol, with positive connotations.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
im not angry. youre wrong again.
i think the protestors in charlottwsville were right to stand up to white supremacists you dont.
im not comfortable with white supremacists marching down the srreet armed to the teeth yiu are.
i dont agree with your position.
The statue is not the real problem. Just a convenient excuse. They, the Nazis, were there to make a show of force and encourage others to come out and express their nazi opinions. Nazism is the contrary to free speech and tolerance. Trump should have slammed into them... but he put them on an equal footing with the people protesting Nazism by claiming many sides were at fault. The Nazis are now emboldened. There will be more of them and more violence and hate against minorities. Trump is a buffoon and is not fit to lead a country. No amount of deflection to the Antifa - which is not what the demonstration of force was about - will make Trump into a sane, intelligent leader of a democratic country. So Earlsdon is wasting his time.

Martcov - in my last post I literally said Trump is not fit to be in office. You are another one that has lost the argument so just resort to making things up along with Clint who thinks I back white supremacy. Here is a list of things I am, and am not comfortable with so you can try and understand a little bit more:

Comfortable:

- People to love their country, or have conservative, left or right wing views.
- People to vote for and support Trump, if they want to.
- People to draw issue with different religions.
- People to draw issues with racists.

Not comfortable:

- White supremacists or Nazis.
- White supremacists or Nazis going on armed marches.
- 'Reistance' groups such as Antifa and BLM going on armed marches.
- 'Reistance' groups such as Antifa and BLM going around causing violence and rioting (before Charlottesville which was all ignored).
- The media giving a free pass to the above.
- The crackdown on freedom of speech.
- Calling anyone racist that has conservative views.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Martcov - in my last post I literally said Trump is not fit to be in office. You are another one that has lost the argument so just resort to making things up along with Clint who thinks I back white supremacy. Here is a list of things I am, and am not comfortable with so you can try and understand a little bit more:

Comfortable:

- People to love their country, or have conservative, left or right wing views.
- People to vote for and support Trump, if they want to.
- People to draw issue with different religions.
- People to draw issues with racists.

Not comfortable:

- White supremacists or Nazis.
- White supremacists or Nazis going on armed marches.
- 'Reistance' groups such as Antifa and BLM going on armed marches.
- 'Reistance' groups such as Antifa and BLM going around causing violence and rioting (before Charlottesville which was all ignored).
- The media giving a free pass to the above.
- The crackdown on freedom of speech.
- Calling anyone racist that has conservative views.


you're not comfortable on Nazis going on armed marches but you're not comfortable with people resisting them?
Can you show me an example of anti facists movements openly carrying guns on a march? While you're there could you give me the examples of left wing terrorism in the USA that I asked for in a previous post?

Just to remind you, Mitt Romney agrees with me on this and not you - you've positioned yourself to the right of Mitt Romney!!
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Martcov - in my last post I literally said Trump is not fit to be in office. You are another one that has lost the argument so just resort to making things up along with Clint who thinks I back white supremacy. Here is a list of things I am, and am not comfortable with so you can try and understand a little bit more:

Comfortable:

- People to love their country, or have conservative, left or right wing views.
- People to vote for and support Trump, if they want to.
- People to draw issue with different religions.
- People to draw issues with racists.

Not comfortable:

- White supremacists or Nazis.
- White supremacists or Nazis going on armed marches.
- 'Reistance' groups such as Antifa and BLM going on armed marches.
- 'Reistance' groups such as Antifa and BLM going around causing violence and rioting (before Charlottesville which was all ignored).
- The media giving a free pass to the above.
- The crackdown on freedom of speech.
- Calling anyone racist that has conservative views.

Which argument have I lost? Trump was wrong to seek to spread the blame out. It was a Nazi demonstration which resulted in beatings and a death caused by a Nazi supporter. Such demonstrations have no place in a democracy and should be unequivocally condemned- especially when they result in death.

You are not comfortable with people protesting Nazi demonstrations because you see it as a crack down on free speech?

Protesting Nazis is a necessity because they would immediately stifle free speech if they ever got to power. Surprised you are not more concerned with slamming Nazis than pointing out the failings of a portion of the protesters...
 

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
you're not comfortable on Nazis going on armed marches but you're not comfortable with people resisting them?
Can you show me an example of anti facists movements openly carrying guns on a march? While you're there could you give me the examples of left wing terrorism in the USA that I asked for in a previous post?

Just to remind you, Mitt Romney agrees with me on this and not you - you've positioned yourself to the right of Mitt Romney!!

It isn't hard, just go the internet and have a look on YouTube or twitter and you will see lots of left wing antifa protestors attacking people with weapons, in body armour, just because they voted for trump or have conservative views. In their view if you don't agree with what they say you are a Nazi, white suppremist, bigot. In fact you don't have to even have these views I have seen a couple of videos where a person on there own has been group attacked as they just decided he was a trump supporter or a undercover cop. The yanks are losing the plot, you cant condone violence on either side, which is what people and the media are doing, you don't take things into your own hands. If idiots want to spout racist shite, let them, take photos/videos and show them up for what they are. Having a lefty vigilante group who think they can take law and order into their own hands is wrong and they should be condemned.
 

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
Which argument have I lost? Trump was wrong to seek to spread the blame out. It was a Nazi demonstration which resulted in beatings and a death caused by a Nazi supporter. Such demonstrations have no place in a democracy and should be unequivocally condemned- especially when they result in death.

You are not comfortable with people protesting Nazi demonstrations because you see it as a crack down on free speech?

Protesting Nazis is a necessity because they would immediately stifle free speech if they ever got to power. Surprised you are not more concerned with slamming Nazis than pointing out the failings of a portion of the protesters...

protesting Nazi's do you really think there are that many people who actually care what they have to say. 99.99% of the American population think they are idiots, they will have no power, they would never get the vote to have any power, its a stupid minority. They have been given time by people and the media, show them for what they are racists and move on.
 
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
you're not comfortable on Nazis going on armed marches but you're not comfortable with people resisting them?
Can you show me an example of anti facists movements openly carrying guns on a march? While you're there could you give me the examples of left wing terrorism in the USA that I asked for in a previous post?

Just to remind you, Mitt Romney agrees with me on this and not you - you've positioned yourself to the right of Mitt Romney!!

Once again, I have to repeat myself whilst you try to mud the waters. I have no issue in people challenging the Nazi march, I have issue with the countless incidents previous where these 'resistance' groups have been rioting and causing violent attacks on innocent people, something you are oblivious and ignorant towards.

This is what people such as yourself don't understand. Everyone has condemned the Nazi march, it is like the Slade/Mowbray argument. Everyone unanimously knows the former is shit, but it is the latter that gets excused constantly.

I said terrorist atrocities, as I listed it was something as well as far left violence, the former mainly being attributed to Islam. If you want a few examples of your mates kicking off, see below:



Why are you defending and excusing this?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
It isn't hard, just go the internet and have a look on YouTube or twitter and you will see lots of left wing antifa protestors attacking people with weapons, in body armour, just because they voted for trump or have conservative views. In their view if you don't agree with what they say you are a Nazi, white suppremist, bigot. In fact you don't have to even have these views I have seen a couple of videos where a person on there own has been group attacked as they just decided he was a trump supporter or a undercover cop. The yanks are losing the plot, you cant condone violence on either side, which is what people and the media are doing, you don't take things into your own hands. If idiots want to spout racist shite, let them, take photos/videos and show them up for what they are. Having a lefty vigilante group who think they can take law and order into their own hands is wrong and they should be condemned.

not seen any videos of a mob openly carrying guns or having a car driven at them. Not condoning attacks but trying to put the two things on a par just doesn't work for me.
And one is a symptom of the other, the rhetoric used by trump has emboldened the far right and lead to an increase in hate crime, that is the opinion of the head of the Association of Chief of police officers in the US.
 

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
protesting Nazi's do really think there are that many people who actually care what they have to say. 99.99% of the American population think they are idiots, they will have no power, they would never get the vote to have any power, its a stupid minority. They have been given time by people and the media, show them for what they are racist and move on.

And same for the left wing hate groups as been mentioned. They are both crazy groups and dangerous groups. Luckily they will never get anywhere near power so why do we both talking about them?

It's in the media because trump won the the election and the media hate him in the main. They have to blame and focus on something and this fits the bill perfectly. Trump is no saint but he was elected fairly and democratically. The same people who don't understand why he won are the same people who don't understand why brexit won. People want change
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
protesting Nazi's do you really think there are that many people who actually care what they have to say. 99.99% of the American population think they are idiots, they will have no power, they would never get the vote to have any power, its a stupid minority. They have been given time by people and the media, show them for what they are racists and move on.

They have been encouraged by Breitbart. They have been emboldened by Trump. They are in the news because of a torchlight rally which resulted in a death. All publicity is good publicity as far as they are concerned. If Trump had condemned them without mentioning 'many sides' and claiming that the protesters were just as bad, we could have moved on. That's the point.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Once again, I have to repeat myself whilst you try to mud the waters. I have no issue in people challenging the Nazi march, I have issue with the countless incidents previous where these 'resistance' groups have been rioting and causing violent attacks on innocent people, something you are oblivious and ignorant towards.

This is what people such as yourself don't understand. Everyone has condemned the Nazi march, it is like the Slade/Mowbray argument. Everyone unanimously knows the former is shit, but it is the latter that gets excused constantly.

I said terrorist atrocities, as I listed it was something as well as far left violence, the former mainly being attributed to Islam. If you want a few examples of your mates kicking off, see below:



Why are you defending and excusing this?



the bit in bold isn't true, you've tried the both as bad as each other defence repeatedly, it doesn't work.
As I stated in my previous post, the Head of the association of Chief Police officers in the States puts the rise in hate crime firmly at trumps door for the rhetoric he's used and I agree with him. Of course people are going to hit back.
I haven't condoned these incidents you've listed, again you're making it up. I've condoned aggressive resistance to a march by armed far right white supremacists.
And as for listing hate crimes against white people in your list, they are disgusting hate crimes but they have not increased as crimes against minorities have in the US since trumps election, I keep asking you why that is but you won't answer.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Which argument have I lost? Trump was wrong to seek to spread the blame out. It was a Nazi demonstration which resulted in beatings and a death caused by a Nazi supporter. Such demonstrations have no place in a democracy and should be unequivocally condemned- especially when they result in death.

You are not comfortable with people protesting Nazi demonstrations because you see it as a crack down on free speech?

Protesting Nazis is a necessity because they would immediately stifle free speech if they ever got to power. Surprised you are not more concerned with slamming Nazis than pointing out the failings of a portion of the protesters...

You are utterly clueless, and your mates at Antifa are doing a much better job of stifiling free speech than the modern day Nazi ever will. The Nazi's will never rise again thankfully, sadly though, we have a new form. Antifa and co...

Appearance-600-LI.jpg
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
And same for the left wing hate groups as been mentioned. They are both crazy groups and dangerous groups. Luckily they will never get anywhere near power so why do we both talking about them?

It's in the media because trump won the the election and the media hate him in the main. They have to blame and focus on something and this fits the bill perfectly. Trump is no saint but he was elected fairly and democratically. The same people who don't understand why he won are the same people who don't understand why brexit won. People want change

He wasn't elected fairly- he had help from Putin - and he didn't win the popular vote. Hillary won the popular vote by more votes than your democratic Brexit vote. So get over it.

Whether the media hates Trumo or not, he is proving to be incapable of being a president. The criticism comes from all sides including his own party. The guy is a clown, but you see him as a victim because your hero Farage praises him.

As for people wanting change, I don't think Trump is the change they thought they were getting. As with Brexit they have been had and are now coming to realize it.
 

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
not seen any videos of a mob openly carrying guns or having a car driven at them. Not condoning attacks but trying to put the two things on a par just doesn't work for me.
And one is a symptom of the other, the rhetoric used by trump has emboldened the far right and lead to an increase in hate crime, that is the opinion of the head of the Association of Chief of police officers in the US.

So when a BLM member who was ex miltary said he hated white people and went on to shoot and kill 5 police officer is that ok by you. this also happened way before trump was elected was this down to his rhetoric?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
the bit in bold isn't true, you've tried the both as bad as each other defence repeatedly, it doesn't work.
As I stated in my previous post, the Head of the association of Chief Police officers in the States puts the rise in hate crime firmly at trumps door for the rhetoric he's used and I agree with him. Of course people are going to hit back.
I haven't condoned these incidents you've listed, again you're making it up. I've condoned aggressive resistance to a march by armed far right white supremacists.
And as for listing hate crimes against white people in your list, they are disgusting hate crimes but they have not increased as crimes against minorities have in the US since trumps election, I keep asking you why that is but you won't answer.

Yes, I've said the left wing nutters are just as bad. If anything, they are worse. I don't have an issue with people causing a nuisance at a Nazi rally, but I have issue with people attacking others like in the many examples I have just given. That is what they have been doing 99.9% of the time, and is what you among the entire left side of the planet it seems, keep ignoring.

Why won't you acknowledge that these things are happening, and speak out?

The attacks on minorities I am sure has risen, like Brexit. But as with Brexit, these have also been exaggerated massively, and with this, another mitigating circumstance which is that many reports of this are also turning out to be fake incidents too. I am guessing as you have switched to this point, that you have taken in what I have said on the previous matter, and believe it to some extent...
 

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
And same for the left wing hate groups as been mentioned. They are both crazy groups and dangerous groups. Luckily they will never get anywhere near power so why do we both talking about them?

It's in the media because trump won the the election and the media hate him in the main. They have to blame and focus on something and this fits the bill perfectly. Trump is no saint but he was elected fairly and democratically. The same people who don't understand why he won are the same people who don't understand why brexit won. People want change

totally agree, the media said trump was wrong for not condemning the violence in Charlottesville on the Saturday, Sunday he condemns all right wing, Nazis etc. media then say its too late, on the Monday he condemns both sides for violence then the media goes into melt down for condemning a violent left movement. Lets be fair trump is a dick but the left and media hate him so much they literally jump on anything and spin it to fit a narrative.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
They have been encouraged by Breitbart. They have been emboldened by Trump. They are in the news because of a torchlight rally which resulted in a death. All publicity is good publicity as far as they are concerned. If Trump had condemned them without mentioning 'many sides' and claiming that the protesters were just as bad, we could have moved on. That's the point.

Yes, moved on and swept more Antifa violence under the carpet. That's the point we are making.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
You are utterly clueless, and your mates at Antifa are doing a much better job of stifiling free speech than the modern day Nazi ever will. The Nazi's will never rise again thankfully, sadly though, we have a new form. Antifa and co...

Appearance-600-LI.jpg

My mates? Clueless? Look in a mirror regarding cluelessness. The Nazis suppressed free speech. Even if these Nazi clowns are in a minority, they stand for suppression of free speech. You don't get it do you? The demonstration was a demonstration as a show of Nazi ideals. If you take the line that counterprotesters are just as bad, you are deflecting from what is happening. Not all counter protesters are 'Antifa' in the sense of belonging to a violent movement. But all people marching and chanting 'Jews will not replace us' are not fine people as Trump claims some of them are. No fine people attend such a Demonstration in the Nazi Side.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
So when a BLM member who was ex miltary said he hated white people and went on to shoot and kill 5 police officer is that ok by you. this also happened way before trump was elected was this down to his rhetoric?

No it's not OK,but the racial tension in the US has been going on for years, same as the klan were lynching blacks long before trump was elected. But there has been no spike in hate crime against whites since trumps election, so no, it's not OK but it hasn't been exasperated by the current situation.
What has happened, due to the rhetoric used by trump, is there has been a spike in hate crime against minorities, again, it has always happened, but this has been exasperated by the rhetoric coming form the POTUS. Example, there has been a 30% increase on attacks on Jews - trump is responsible for emboldening the far right.
 

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
He wasn't elected fairly- he had help from Putin - and he didn't win the popular vote. Hillary won the popular vote by more votes than your democratic Brexit vote. So get over it.

Whether the media hates Trumo or not, he is proving to be incapable of being a president. The criticism comes from all sides including his own party. The guy is a clown, but you see him as a victim because your hero Farage praises him.

As for people wanting change, I don't think Trump is the change they thought they were getting. As with Brexit they have been had and are now coming to realize it.

show me prof that he had help from Putin, do you want to talk about the millions in Saudi money Hillary took in donations to her election campaign? or does that not count. Think of it this way if trump is that bad and incompertant in you opinion, HOW BAD MUST HILLARY of been to not beat him to a election.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
totally agree, the media said trump was wrong for not condemning the violence in Charlottesville on the Saturday, Sunday he condemns all right wing, Nazis etc. media then say its too late, on the Monday he condemns both sides for violence then the media goes into melt down for condemning a violent left movement. Lets be fair trump is a dick but the left and media hate him so much they literally jump on anything and spin it to fit a narrative.

Spot on both of you.

Glad the penny has dropped for some.
 

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