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Wilson money to SP. (6 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Sky Blue Kid
  • Start date Jul 30, 2014
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W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #36
fernandopartridge said:
Any part of the wage bill in excess of income will be funded through transfer fees. That would be sensible.

Also I think Waggott's comment starts from a lower base I.e. considering the wage bill minus the players we've lost (as without the Wilson money I suspect not so many signings would be made).
Click to expand...

Indeed as SP said we have an Income not dissimilar to Nuneaton Town.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #37
wingy said:
Indeed as SP said we have an Income not dissimilar to Nuneaton Town.
Click to expand...
The shame is that the new found recognition that wages must be controlled would put us in a much stronger footing at the Ricoh you'd imagine.
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #38
fernandopartridge said:
The shame is that the new found recognition that wages must be controlled would put us in a much stronger footing at the Ricoh you'd imagine.
Click to expand...

not without F+B revenues
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #39
ccfc92 said:
not without F+B revenues
Click to expand...

Rubbish. Utter rubbish.

Even on the old deal the Ricoh pulls in far more cash than Sixfields. You can argue a new ground would be better, but no-one in their right mind would suggest that we're better off now than we were in our last season at the Ricoh, let alone on a lower rent deal.

FP is absolutely right, the crying shame about the move to Sixfields is that we've finally got the wage budget under control (it seems).
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #40
shmmeee said:
Rubbish. Utter rubbish.

Even on the old deal the Ricoh pulls in far more cash than Sixfields.

FP is absolutely right, the crying shame about the move to Sixfields is that we've finally got the wage budget under control (it seems).
Click to expand...


Maybe I should have put a smiley in my post :facepalm:

Purely tongue in cheek comment

"Reel 'er in boy, she's a big un!"
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #41
shmmeee said:
Rubbish. Utter rubbish.

Even on the old deal the Ricoh pulls in far more cash than Sixfields. You can argue a new ground would be better, but no-one in their right mind would suggest that we're better off now than we were in our last season at the Ricoh, let alone on a lower rent deal.

FP is absolutely right, the crying shame about the move to Sixfields is that we've finally got the wage budget under control (it seems).
Click to expand...

Around 25% of what It was 3 seasons ago. Couldn't have happened without a Relegation IMO.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #42
ccfc92 said:
Maybe I should have put a smiley in my post :facepalm:

Purely tongue in cheek comment

"Reel 'er in boy, she's a big un!"
Click to expand...

Don't even. Not funny.

(OK you got me)
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #43
wingy said:
Around 25% of what It was 3 seasons ago. Couldn't have happened without a Relegation IMO.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, and the real question is: How possible is it to carry this strategy over to the Championship?

I worry that the Championship is the new Prem and to compete you've got to pretty much bankrupt yourself.
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #44
shmmeee said:
Don't even. Not funny.

(OK you got me)
Click to expand...

I now bow before you, and beg for forgiveness Sir shmmeee
 
Last edited: Jul 30, 2014

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #45
shmmeee said:
You're probably right, and the real question is: How possible is it to carry this strategy over to the Championship?

I worry that the Championship is the new Prem and to compete you've got to pretty much bankrupt yourself.
Click to expand...

Bournemouth did okay though. Didn't go mad, invested where it was needed. They did have a few financial windfalls from sell on clauses, but they didn't bankrupt themselves.

Basically, a well managed club can achieve anything.
 

cloughie

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #46
Grendel said:
If we didn't pay agent fees we would make no signings.
Click to expand...


your usual drivel and lack of knowledge

Just how much does an agent get from placing a player who is a free agent?

I await your genius inside info reply
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #47
ccfc92 said:
Bournemouth did okay though. Didn't go mad, invested where it was needed. They did have a few financial windfalls from sell on clauses, but they didn't bankrupt themselves.

Basically, a well managed club can achieve anything.
Click to expand...

Bournemouth are backed by mentalist Russian cash.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #48
cloughie said:
your usual drivel and lack of knowledge

Just how much does an agent get from placing a player who is a free agent?

I await your genius inside info reply
Click to expand...

Would it not depend on the agreement between agent and player?
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #49
Funny that play in a ground not dissimilar as well.

wingy said:
Indeed as SP said we have an Income not dissimilar to Nuneaton Town.
Click to expand...
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #50
cloughie said:
your usual drivel and lack of knowledge

Just how much does an agent get from placing a player who is a free agent?

I await your genius inside info reply
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. So if say Wayne Rooney ran his contract down and joined another club as a free agent his agent gets nothing?

Of course he doesn't - I bow to your superior knowledge.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #51
Deleted member 5849 said:
Bournemouth are backed by mentalist Russian cash.
Click to expand...

Was gonna say!

AFC Bournemouth lost £15.3m in the financial year ending July 2013, the season in which they were promoted to the Championship.
The figure is in stark contrast to the £3.4m loss they posted for 2011-12.
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27224806


cloughie said:
your usual drivel and lack of knowledge

Just how much does an agent get from placing a player who is a free agent?

I await your genius inside info reply
Click to expand...

It's almost like I didn't post up the actual figures from the FL about agents' fees at this level (average £10k) or the fact that the vast majority of transfers at this level don't involve an agent.

For anyone else interested: http://www.football-league.co.uk/pu...hes-201213-agents-fees-report_2293631_3446970
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #52
The football league report for 12/13 shows that 19% of player transactions in league 1 involved an agent, I thought it would be much higher than that.

We paid £252k to agents, the second highest in the league, only Bournemouth spent more, a huge £689k.

There's a link to the full report on this bbc page... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23987048

Edit, I see shmmeee had the same idea.
 
Last edited: Jul 30, 2014

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #53
Am I on ignore?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #54
shmmeee said:
Was gonna say!



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27224806




It's almost like I didn't post up the actual figures from the FL about agents' fees at this level (average £10k) or the fact that the vast majority of transfers at this level don't involve an agent.

For anyone else interested: http://www.football-league.co.uk/pu...hes-201213-agents-fees-report_2293631_3446970
Click to expand...

How many as a percentage involve a transfer fee in this league out of interest?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #55
Grendel said:
How many as a percentage involve a transfer fee in this league out of interest?
Click to expand...

If we ever do build a new ground, give the club a call when they sort the pitch.

You're brilliant at moving goalposts.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #56
shmmeee said:
If we ever do build a new ground, give the club a call when they sort the pitch.

You're brilliant at moving goalposts.
Click to expand...

Not at all, I believe there are only about 15 transfer fees a season in this league.

I think far more attract agent fees.

I would also say we are easily in the top 10 wage bills in this league.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #57
Rusty Trombone said:
The football league report for 12/13 shows that 19% of player transactions in league 1 involved an agent, I thought it would be much higher than that.

We paid £252k to agents, the second highest in the league, only Bournemouth spent more, a huge £689k.

There's a link to the full report on this bbc page... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23987048

Edit, I see shmmeee had the same idea.
Click to expand...

That would make an average of around £15k_£20K. per transaction on the recent level of deals during our last couple of Summers .
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2014
  • #58
wingy said:
That would make an average of around £15k_£20K. per transaction on the recent level of deals during our last couple of Summers .
Click to expand...

Isn't that about the average transfer fee? Excluding the 95% of free transfers?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #59
Grendel said:
Isn't that about the average transfer fee? Excluding the 95% of free transfers?
Click to expand...

God this Is getting Complex now,20% of transactions attract an agents fee so If we recruit 10-12 players over a Summer which we have done for about 3 seasons now ,It could equate to around 3 Transactions ,but we were second behind Bournemouth . Or did we sign anyone for money during that spell , which Is what I think you're suggesting ,shit i've had way to much Echo falls tonight.
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #60
According to the report for 12/13 (year to 30th June 13) we had 49 transactions.

28 new registrations/transfers
2 updated contracts
6 cancelled contracts
13 loans
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #61
Grendel said:
Not at all, I believe there are only about 15 transfer fees a season in this league.

I think far more attract agent fees.

I would also say we are easily in the top 10 wage bills in this league.
Click to expand...

I doubt it, I would say our wage bill would be around 12/13th, possibly sneak into 10th but not easily in the top 10
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #62
Grendel said:
Not at all, I believe there are only about 15 transfer fees a season in this league.

I think far more attract agent fees.

I would also say we are easily in the top 10 wage bills in this league.
Click to expand...

You can think what you like, but last time I checked there were at least 21 transfers in this division this window for money. I've also posted up evidence from the Football League that at this level the vast majority of transfers do not involve agents' fees.

I dunno about the wage bill, it's impossible to find details on other clubs. This thread (http://www.thefootballforum.net/index.php?/topic/218958-wage-bill/) from last season seems to show most fans think their club is one of the top payers.

Surely SCMP dictates that ours can't be that high though? Even with Joy's cash injection last year and the Wilson sale this year, we can't be looking at a budget much more than £2m surely? That would seem to put us fairly solidly in the middle, so 10th or so is a decent guess I suppose.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #63
Grendel said:
Isn't that about the average transfer fee? Excluding the 95% of free transfers?
Click to expand...

So you now know about agents and the fees they charge although your information contradicts the evidence.

Agents can work for players without getting the clubs to pay them. A lot of clubs won't pay agents these days. The way they get paid is by taking a percentage of their earnings. This is how the top agents become rich.

You will find that an agent takes a 10% cut or more. For this he will sort out contracts and offers with all clubs interested and negotiate the best contract he can get. Although a player is handing over a fair bit of money to his agent he will be better off than doing the work by himself the vast majority of the time. The agent might also try to get a fee off the club but it doesn't mean he will get it. And if the deal doesn't get completed because of his greed he doesn't get paid at all.

IIRC Rooneys agent is on a percentage of his inflated wage of 15%. This puts him on more money than the vast majority of football players. But do you really think that Rooney would get anywhere near as much without an agent to negotiate for him? The big losers are the football clubs even if they don't hand over money to the agents.
 
R

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #64
Roy Keane and Paul Scholes as an example never had an agent, they used the players union to help wage negotiations, a number of British top players do that too. The top players use agents for other earnings outside of wages, that's different. When fees are quoted such as the so called 2.3 million we supposedly got for Wilson that will be the whole deal, fee, signing on money etc. Money owed to Wilson by us if there was any nine times out of ten the buying club will foot that bill to get their wish for player. A lot of clubs use agents to buy or sell players to generate income not just players. In the main signing on fees are factored into wages and paid over the course of their contract, should they leave before their contracts are up normally what signing on fee is owed gets paid up.

Now Steve Waggott is supposedly our development director, so what is that ? basically it is to generate income as well as do deals to bring players in. Do you think he does that for free ? Is he a club employee or free-lance I suggest the latter and probably paid on money made for our owner. One recently departed player was being hawked around for transfer most of last season and was not SWs favourite person for not agreeing to move. So is Waggott an agent of sorts ? I suggest yes.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #65
pb2875 said:
There will be some story about it being used to pay wages rather than transfer fees.....
Click to expand...

Kieron Crowley said during the commentary of the Newport fixture that Steven Pressley is trying to ensure of a bigger wage budget, however a Transfer Kitty was available if the manager wanted it.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #66
SP will obviously have a budget. I would imagine there is a sliding scale between what is spent on wages and what is spent on transfer fees i.e the more spent on one means the less available for the other.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #67
Hobo said:
SP will obviously have a budget. I would imagine there is a sliding scale between what is spent on wages and what is spent on transfer fees i.e the more spent on one means the less available for the other.
Click to expand...

That's without question the case. That stated, and to come back to the central point of the thread, and the clubs claims of the Wilson fee; it's not going to be given to the playing squad.

The wage bill must already by way, way down on last season. So even if we do sign more players, it'll only bring things back closer to last seasons wage budget. But that is not the Wilson fee being reinvested.

Signing on fees or agents fees,, unless we sign Ronaldinho, won't be more than 10% of the Wilson fee.

So, there is no conclusion, other than we've been misled. Yet again.

There's no justification for this on going duplicity. Unless the delusional keep claiming that it's because the council 'forced' the club out of The Ricoh...

I wonder what goes through peoples minds when they see Clarke, Wilson, Moussa, Christie, Murphy, Adams (et al); shorn from a squad that struggled in the third division last season; then read we've sold 500 season tickets to play football in another county, and read spin like yesterdays rubbish about what's best for the club from Waggott?!?
 
Last edited: Jul 31, 2014

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #68
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
That's without question the case. That stated, and to come back to the central point of the thread, and the clubs claims of the Wilson fee; it's not going to be given to the playing squad.

The wage bill must already by way, way down on last season. So even if we do sign more players, it'll only bring things back closer to last seasons wage budget. But that is not the Wilson fee being reinvested.

Signing on fees or agents fees,, unless we sign Ronaldinho, won't be more than 10% of the Wilson fee.

So, there is no conclusion, other than we've been misled. Yet again.
Click to expand...

Misled? Who still believes their crap publicity?
 
R

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #69
Remember, last season Callum Wilson for example was a low earner to begin with but signed a new better contract around xmas time, that was to secure his value I believe, lets all be honest his rise to the heights he achieved was a surprise and a bonus to the club but that happens. Anyone who expects any of these transfer fee incomes to be spent on new players are living in cloud cuckoo land. The money received is simply to help pay our way this season
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2014
  • #70
Hobo said:
Misled? Who still believes their crap publicity?
Click to expand...

Nobody. I just wish the media - Telegraph, CWR, etc - would have the balls to challenge it for what it is. Then publish facts. Waggott's statement sounds plausible, until you actually think it through. Then, anyone with more computing power than a potted plant can see it for the farce it is. Unfortunately, some folks evidently need spoon feeding. Some of whom being contributors to this site
 
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