Wasps new deal with Compass

Nick

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We can say 100% Wasps pursued this deal and made it happen. Did SISU ever pursue this deal or did they choose a different disastrous route to gain control of the Ricoh?
So you can't say 100% it was there for the club then?
 

skybluetony176

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No because the council didn't want the club to own the ground.
You would only ever know that if they were in a position to turn SISU down in favour to Wasps. Again I know it's uncomfortable for you to accept but the council were simply never in a position to choose to accept an offer from SISU. What you're describing is akin to moaning you've never won the lottery despite having never bought a ticket. You're supposed to be the big business man on a six figure salary yet you constantly struggle to understand how a takeover happens.
 

Grendel

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You would only ever know that if they were in a position to turn SISU down in favour to Wasps. Again I know it's uncomfortable for you to accept but the council were simply never in a position to choose to accept an offer from SISU. What you're describing is akin to moaning you've never won the lottery despite having never bought a ticket. You're supposed to be the big business man on a six figure salary yet you constantly struggle to understand how a takeover happens.
Why to you resort to the same tired insults when I'm the back foot?

Can you kindly answer nicks question and also mind about the F and B revenue sales figures please?
 

Sick Boy

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Wasps weren't in Coventry, so their approach was to move 80 miles wasn't it? Which I bet the ones lauding it so much and giving it the great business line, would be the first to be outraged if we were moved 80 miles in the same circumstances as them.
Tony is too thick to understand this concept.
 

skybluetony176

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So you can't say 100% it was there for the club then?
It was clearly stated on TV that they would listen to any serious offer for the Ricoh. What was SISU's offer after this statement was made? What offer did Joy make to AL when she got on the train to SISU HQ?

There was a deal to be done and it got done. That's 100% fact. Why SISU would rather spend their money (and probably more money given the councils legal bills to date) on pointless litigation rather than just getting on and doing the deal that was there to be done with the right approach is the real question.
 

skybluetony176

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Tony is too thick to understand this concept.
The concept that the stadium that was being fought over was in Coventry so Coventry City Football Club wouldn't have had to move a mm let alone 80 miles? No, I'm not struggling with that at all. You and Nick on the other hand...
 

chiefdave

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So why weren't SISU capable of negotiating this pants down deal for the Ricoh.
Lets go through this again. One thing its worth remembering is we ended up with SISU as owners largely because CCC refused to deal with any of their other interested parties as, with the exception of SISU, they had all identified a need for ground ownership as part of any takeover. Ownership they weren't prepared to relinquish.

Realistically we're only looking at the point from which the current team (Fisher etc) came in. If you recall when Fisher came in he made a couple of statements:
- the rent was unaffordable
- ACL was underperforming, struggling to make a profit and highly reliant on CCFC and their high rent

Its reasonable to assume that is the stance he went into negotiations with. ACL, Higgs and CCC on the other hand consistently took the stance that the rent was an amount agreed by CCFC (ignoring the fact it wasn't agreed by the current owners, had contributed to financial issues at the club and was agreed at a time the club had little in the way of alternative options) and that ACL was performing fantastically well with CCFC only making up a tiny fraction of its business.

I would say that, if you were in Tim Fishers shoes, it would be very hard to negotiate with someone who clearly doesn't want to sell to you and is steadfastly refusing to accept that what they are stating as fact simply isn't true.

If you go back and look at posts from the likes of PWKH and read between the lines it seems that the club did try to negotiate a new rent deal prior to the rent strike but ACL wouldn't even come to the table. Hence the rent strike to force the issue. Of course even when the rent strike stated there was still claims being made by ACL, Higgs and CCC that they would be just fine without the rent and without CCFC at the Ricoh at all. This all culminated in ACL attempting to put the club into administration, possibly with a view to allowing a way in for the likes of PWKH.

Of course what this ultimately caused was a complete breakdown in relations and the removal of the club to Northampton.

You can of course take the view that the rent strike and subsequent move to Northampton was, at least in part, designed to force the issue by distressing ACL. That plan appears to have worked however what SISU didn't count on was a council who were taking every opportunity to state how terrible it was that Coventry City were not playing in Coventry would quite happily franchise in a rugby club as they deemed that a preferable course of action to selling to SISU.
 

skybluetony176

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Really? It was a closed question so was the answer yes or no?

Yeah, you're struggling with this too so I'll dumb it down for you

The Ricoh is in Coventry so no, SISU wouldn't have had to move CCFC 80 miles. Again, NO.
 

Sick Boy

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The concept that the stadium that was being fought over was in Coventry so Coventry City Football Club wouldn't have had to move a mm let alone 80 miles? No, I'm not struggling with that at all. You and Nick on the other hand...
So you clearly believe it would be okay for ccfc to be moved 80 miles if the stadium was in another city? If it's good enough for Wasps then surely you can't have any problems with ccfc moving away?
 

Sick Boy

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Yeah, you're struggling with this too so I'll dumb it down for you

The Ricoh is in Coventry so no, SISU wouldn't have had to move CCFC 80 miles. Again, NO.
Do you think it is wrong that Wasps moved their club 80 miles north? Yes or No.
 

chiefdave

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The Ricoh is in Coventry so no, SISU wouldn't have had to move CCFC 80 miles. Again, NO.
You stated that Wasps took the 'right approach'. Given that this involved moving the club 85 miles purely in the interests of making a deal which was financially advantageous would you be happy if SISU moved us 85 miles to take advantage of a similar deal? Would you think this was the right approach and be singing their praises?
 

Grendel

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Yeah, you're struggling with this too so I'll dumb it down for you

The Ricoh is in Coventry so no, SISU wouldn't have had to move CCFC 80 miles. Again, NO.
So as long as the club did it the right way and found the right deal you'd be happy if a club moves 80 miles.

Fair enough Tony.
 

skybluetony176

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So you clearly believe it would be okay for ccfc to be moved 80 miles if the stadium was in another city? If it's good enough for Wasps then surely you can't have any problems with ccfc moving away?
I clearly don't and as the Ricoh is in Coventry (The stadium in question) it wouldn't have happened. You're really not that stupid as to not understand that so why you're trying to make yourself look that stupid is beyond me.
 

skybluetony176

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You stated that Wasps took the 'right approach'. Given that this involved moving the club 85 miles purely in the interests of making a deal which was financially advantageous would you be happy if SISU moved us 85 miles to take advantage of a similar deal? Would you think this was the right approach and be singing their praises?
The Wasps moving that distance was not a condition of the deal it was a consequence.

The deal was there to be done. If SISU had of negotiated that deal as a consequence we wouldn't have had to move a mm, discounting the 35 miles back home from Northampton.

Again. As with Sickboy I know you're not too stupid to understand that so why you're trying to make out that you are is beyond me.
 

skybluetony176

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So as long as the club did it the right way and found the right deal you'd be happy if a club moves 80 miles.

Fair enough Tony.
So now the Ricoh is 80 miles away from Coventry? When did this happen? Surely a continental drift of this magnitude would have made the news. How did I miss this?
 

Ian1779

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You could of course Tony bring this debate to a swift conclusion by posting evidence of SISU receiving the same offer as Wasps and them turning it down...
 

skybluetony176

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You could of course Tony bring this debate to a swift conclusion by posting evidence of SISU receiving the same offer as Wasps and them turning it down...
I've never said that they were offered the same offer. I said that they never pursued a deal for the Ricoh in the same manor as Wasps did and I'm pretty sure Wasps didn't wait for someone else to negotiate the deal and then be expected to automatically be offered the same deal. Why would they? That's not how these things happen. That's why they own the Ricoh and we don't.
 

Nick

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I clearly don't and as the Ricoh is in Coventry (The stadium in question) it wouldn't have happened. You're really not that stupid as to not understand that so why you're trying to make yourself look that stupid is beyond me.
You said:

The right approach was clearly the approach Wasps took
Their approach involved moving 80 miles, that is the point that you are trying to get away from. Keep calling people stupid, it is only you that struggles to see it.
 

Nick

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I've never said that they were offered the same offer. I said that they never pursued a deal for the Ricoh in the same manor as Wasps did and I'm pretty sure Wasps didn't wait for someone else to negotiate the deal and then be expected to automatically be offered the same deal. Why would they? That's not how these things happen. That's why they own the Ricoh and we don't.
You said it was there to be done because Wasps did it. It doesn't mean the same deal was there to be done for CCFC.
 

skybluetony176

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You said:



Their approach involved moving 80 miles, that is the point that you are trying to get away from. Keep calling people stupid, it is only you that struggles to see it.
So what you're suggesting is that if we had have done the deal that Wasps did and bought ACL we wouldn't be playing there because moving the team 80 miles is key to doing the deal?

ACL the company Wasps purchased is based in Coventry at the Ricoh Arena. You are aware of this fact, yes? So if we did the deal to buy ACL that Wasps did why would we have had to have moved 80 miles?
 

chiefdave

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So what you're suggesting is that if we had have done the deal that Wasps did and bought ACL we wouldn't be playing there because moving the team 80 miles is key to doing the deal?
No, what he is clearly saying is you are holding Wasps up of a shining example of the correct way to do business and something SISU should aspire to. Their method of business involved moving their club 85 miles.

Either you think this is acceptable or not - its that simple. If you don't think its acceptable then you shouldn't really be heaping praise on them.
 

Nick

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So what you're suggesting is that if we had have done the deal that Wasps did and bought ACL we wouldn't be playing there because moving the team 80 miles is key to doing the deal?

ACL the company Wasps purchased is based in Coventry at the Ricoh Arena. You are aware of this fact, yes? So if we did the deal to buy ACL that Wasps did why would we have had to have moved 80 miles?
No, I'm talking about taking their approach which was to up and move somewhere else, wasn't it?
 

skybluetony176

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You said it was there to be done because Wasps did it. It doesn't mean the same deal was there to be done for CCFC.
The deal was there to be done. SISU never pursued the deal.

My neighbours house is up for sale at the moment. It's identical to mine except the garden is twice as big. I'd like a bigger garden. Now do I show an interest and pursue the purchase of this house or shall we sit around, let someone else negotiate to buy it because I'm automatically going to be offered the same deal? Tell me Nick. Which way does the real world work?
 

Nick

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The deal was there to be done. SISU never pursued the deal.

My neighbours house is up for sale at the moment. It's identical to mine except the garden is twice as big. I'd like a bigger garden. Now do I show an interest and pursue the purchase of this house or shall we sit around, let someone else negotiate to buy it because I'm automatically going to be offered the same deal? Tell me Nick. Which way does the real world work?
You are the one making the statements, you have no proof the same deal was there for ccfc.
 

chiefdave

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My neighbours house is up for sale at the moment. It's identical to mine except the garden is twice as big. I'd like a bigger garden. Now do I show an interest and pursue the purchase of this house or shall we sit around, let someone else negotiate to buy it because I'm automatically going to be offered the same deal? Tell me Nick. Which way does the real world work?
How about if you went to speak with your neighbours and they said they wanted £5m for the house but they'd retain ownership of the garden, if you wanted access to the garden you'd have to pay extra. A few months later they sell it to someone from London for half the value of your house?
 

skybluetony176

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No, what he is clearly saying is you are holding Wasps up of a shining example of the correct way to do business and something SISU should aspire to. Their method of business involved moving their club 85 miles.

Either you think this is acceptable or not - its that simple. If you don't think its acceptable then you shouldn't really be heaping praise on them.
I'm not holding them up as a shining light of anything. Merely pointing out that the way they went about acquiring the Ricoh was successful. You can dispute that all you like but the fact is they own it.

This 85miles BS is such a red herring on your, Nick, Grendull and Sickboys part. At no point did SISU acquiring the Ricoh involve CCFC moving 80 miles. If anything that should have made the Ricoh more valuable to SISU than Wasps but they weren't even willing to pursue a deal that Wasps made available for themselves.

To be honest I'm not surprised the others are pushing this red herring of an excuse for SISU but I honestly thought you were a more intelligent poster than that.
 

skybluetony176

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You are the one making the statements, you have no proof the same deal was there for ccfc.
Maybe that's why we're apparently slow in the transfer market? According to you it's company policy to rather than pursue a deal you wait for the competition to do the negotiations as SISU will automatically be offered the same deal. It must be the law or something. Here was me thinking it was because TM is to astute to panic buy and is trying to pursue deals for the right players but I stand corrected.
 

Ian1779

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This 85miles BS is such a red herring on your, Nick, Grendull and Sickboys part. At no point did SISU acquiring the Ricoh involve CCFC moving 80 miles. If anything that should have made the Ricoh more valuable to SISU than Wasps but they weren't even willing to pursue a deal that Wasps made available for themselves.

To be honest I'm not surprised the others are pushing this red herring of an excuse for SISU but I honestly thought you were a more intelligent poster than that.
CCC time and time again took the moral high ground with their whole 'a club shouldn't be outside of it's home city' which everyone agreed with. They then sell out to a franchise 2 seconds after the sense finally prevailed and the club returned to the city. The whole statement about it being a new start, and building trust and seeing what the future holds. And before you start bringing out the Fisher quotes, the language of his quotes changed from 'build' to 'own' - all of which suggested that an ownership of the Ricoh could have been on the cards in the future once relationships had been rebuilt.

CCC let their spite for SISU blind them in doing a deal with Wasps, and in doing so exposed themselves as the lying hypocrites they are. There wasn't an ounce of thought for CCFC after SISU leave, and now when they do, any new owners will be hamstrung by not only SISU's but the councils legacy.
 

Grendel

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I'm not holding them up as a shining light of anything. Merely pointing out that the way they went about acquiring the Ricoh was successful. You can dispute that all you like but the fact is they own it.

This 85miles BS is such a red herring on your, Nick, Grendull and Sickboys part. At no point did SISU acquiring the Ricoh involve CCFC moving 80 miles. If anything that should have made the Ricoh more valuable to SISU than Wasps but they weren't even willing to pursue a deal that Wasps made available for themselves.

To be honest I'm not surprised the others are pushing this red herring of an excuse for SISU but I honestly thought you were a more intelligent poster than that.
Keep digging.

The fact you genuinely cannot see the point of principal that has been made shows you really are a moron.
 

skybluetony176

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Keep digging.

The fact you genuinely cannot see the point of principal that has been made shows you really are a moron.
Ahhh, Grendull calling someone a Moron. Confirmation that you've made a point and grendull can't dispute it, everytime.