Wasps downward spiral... (3 Viewers)

Don't we want them to do well now seeing as they own the stadium ccfc are playing in soon?

Say they give up and sell it, I'm not sure ccfc/sisu would be able to keep it running either.

SG21 said:

Don't we want them to do well now seeing as they own the stadium ccfc are playing in soon?

Say they give up and sell it, I'm not sure ccfc/sisu would be able to keep it running either.

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They wouldn’t have to as the shares will transfer back to the original lease and to the council

The council? Dear god no. They'll turn in into an art museum.

SG21 said:

The council? Dear god no. They'll turn in into an art museum.

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They can’t the lease protects tenants

Oh thank god

Doesn't read well to me.

Losses up, bond covenant breached bringing increased risk, auditors question ability to continue as a going concern without Richardson pumping in more cash.

Oh dear. I think investing in bitcoin would probably be a lower risk option!

Hard to judge seeing as the last year has basically been wiped out in every sense.

chiefdave said:

Very quick glance suggests not much good news in there. Has the finance plc contained a note about not being an ongoing concern before?

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There is a note in 2019 accounts. But to be clear neither the directors nor auditors are saying either Wasps Finance or Wasps Holdings is not a going concern. What they highlight or emphasise there is a risk, such notes are going to be very common in a lot of company accounts for 2020 and 2021. The audit report opinion is not qualified in any way

SG21 said:

Hard to judge seeing as the last year has basically been wiped out in every sense.

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Its for year ending June 2020 so only about 3 months of these accounts will be impacted by the pandemic. Of course that means next years are likely to be even worse.

Keep seeing Wasps fans say they'll just refinance, will it be that easy?

Last time round it was all based on projections of being the top, and richest, team in Europe. Now the reality is they're a struggling team playing in a potentially closed off division with no TV deal losing millions every year.

chiefdave said:

Its for year ending June 2020 so only about 3 months of these accounts will be impacted by the pandemic. Of course that means next years are likely to be even worse.

Keep seeing Wasps fans say they'll just refinance, will it be that easy?

Last time round it was all based on projections of being the top, and richest, team in Europe. Now the reality is they're a struggling team playing in a potentially closed off division with no TV deal losing millions every year.

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Is the TV deal an issue any more? I thought they'd given up quite a lot of the rights to that income in any case? It is CVC's problem now as much as the clubs?

Average attendance down from 18k to 11k I see

speedie87 said:

Average attendance down from 18k to 11k I see

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Being kind you'd say it's because they weren't in the Champions Cup. Being truthful you'd still ask yourself how many of those were freebies.

Liquid Gold said:

Being kind you'd say it's because they weren't in the Champions Cup. Being truthful you'd still ask yourself how many of those were freebies.

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I expect that includes matches with no attendance to bring average down??

Whilst we expect 20/21 accounts to make even worse reading remember all the handouts they’ll have in those accounts to soften the blow. Players on furlough, commonwealth games handout, sports support package etc

Results were never going to be good. The 2019 results had been shielded by the CVC deal. So brief highlights

The Group and company are classed as going concerns and the audit reports are not qualified

the breach of the bond covenants and the bond holder approved action to remedy are detailed

The financials indicate that the group were affected by Covid crisis but from what i can see they would have made a loss in any case.

losses were 11m for the year

Turnover dropped 13m the usual overall margin has been 25% so maintain the margin had turnover not dropped and that only adds back £3m or so

Payroll costs have dropped by almost £1m and staff numbers are down by a net 9 persons (playing & coaching staff the costly side of the set up increased by 4) They pay out 13m in wages, mainly on the players i would think

The two main factors in creating the loss are the Rugby side (wasps holdings Ltd - not Wasps Holdings group) making a £8.8m loss and a reduction in the long lease value of 2.5m (the revaluation doesnt involve any movement of cash funds)

Not sure if the lease valuation assumes income from CCFC . The financial report was signed off 05/03/21. A new professional valuation is due early this year, i suspect that has been held back until CCFC situation clarified

that kind of suggests that the stadium operation itself is pretty much holding its own

The bond liability has been reclassified as current liability because of the bond breach. The bond due to be refinanced May 2022

The amount due to Richardson has not increased still at 18.4m as he has waived the right to receive the interest on that debt

Biggest problem is cash flow, as it will be for many companies just now. The biggest element of the cash flow deficit is the rugby side

even so they spent almost £1m on new assets

Average attendances dropped from 18k to 11k which is quite a big drop but is largely due to the Covid crisis. Obviously that links direct to turnover

2021 accounts are going to be just as bad perhaps even worse. But there are a lot of companies going to be in that position. They are not in a good position and it will get worse before it gets better. I am not convinced they are about to go bust though

oldskyblue58 said:

There is a note in 2019 accounts. But to be clear neither the directors nor auditors are saying either Wasps Finance or Wasps Holdings is not a going concern. What they highlight or emphasise there is a risk, such notes are going to be very common in a lot of company accounts for 2020 and 2021. The audit report opinion is not qualified in any way

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Afternoon OSB, hope you're well. Always good to read your analyses.

The auditors are saying that there's a risk regarding the 'going concern' without Richardson's ongoing support though, aren't they? Or have I misread?

Appreciate CCFC still probably have something similar in their accounts too regarding SISU/ARVO! (But then we never claimed we were going to be the richest club in Europe).

oldskyblue58 said:

I am not convinced they are about to go bust though

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Me either, OSB, though if I'm completely honest it sure cheers me up to think that they might!

Ah, I don't really want them to go bust, I just want them back in London where they belong, imho, and the Coventry clubs to thrive in their absence. One can but dream...

duffer said:

Afternoon OSB, hope you're well. Always good to read your analyses.

The auditors are saying that there's a risk regarding the 'going concern' without Richardson's ongoing support though, aren't they? Or have I misread?

Appreciate CCFC still probably have something similar in their accounts too regarding SISU/ARVO! (But then we never claimed we were going to be the richest club in Europe).

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Hi duffer all good thanks hope same for you

the whole point is too highlight potential material risks and what has been done to mitigate it. The point i was making is that no one is saying Wasps or CCFC are not going concerns both have similar statements in their financials ............... but you quite right both require continued support of their respective owners. It is a very common statement by owners & auditors

Didn’t peaches and cream say this wasn’t going to happen,
Wasps 'happy' to move Ricoh games if Coventry City fixtures clash
Wasps 'happy' to move Ricoh games if Coventry City fixtures clash

Bobby Bridge pr, major events.... Ten pin bowling competition

That's the first time I've heard them say they're going to refinance it though, which is what we all thought anyway.

I wonder what terms they're going to get this time round.

Nick said:

Bobby Bridge pr, major events.... Ten pin bowling competition

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Now now Nick, let’s not forget that ONE Rugby League fixture

Nick said:

Bobby Bridge pr, major events.... Ten pin bowling competition

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It must be a tough gig now though, having to PR for both Leicester and Wasps.
Hopefully it'll keep him away from Cov though.

oldskyblue58 said:

Average attendances dropped from 18k to 11k which is quite a big drop but is largely due to the Covid crisis. Obviously that links direct to turnover

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Can’t be anything to do with Covid. They didn’t play any games between 7th March (their last fixture with fans present) and the end of their financial year. That drop in attendance is of their own doing.

Wasps 19 Sale 20

'Genuinely stunned by how bad Wasps were today. To not beat a side who had 4 yellow cards at home is embarrassing. Game management and tactics were truly awful. Fair play to Sale. Deserved their win. Wasps’ season in the Prem at least is as good as over.'

4 yellows!

MusicDating said:

Wasps 19 Sale 20

'Genuinely stunned by how bad Wasps were today. To not beat a side who had 4 yellow cards at home is embarrassing. Game management and tactics were truly awful. Fair play to Sale. Deserved their win. Wasps’ season in the Prem at least is as good as over.'

4 yellows!

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Yes, truly embarrassing. To put it in context, it meant that Sale were disrupted by having to play a total of half the game down to 14 players. That's tough at any level.
Yet they won.
Oh dear, how sad, never mind...

And... another home defeat. Last kick of the game too.
Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Leading at HT, and then absolutely smashed.
I've said it before, but...
Oh dear, how sad, etc.

Still can't fathom a league where there is no relegation and 80% of the league qualify for a European competition.

How do you think things will be crowd wise for them next season Kneeza??

Also, will they promote Ealing (?) If thet finish top of the Championship. (Sure I read that just for this season they would promote- obviously thinking Saracens would steam roller everyone?)

Absolutely no idea. If anyone can get into the mindset of the RFU, PRL, or CVC, please let me know, as nobody at Cov can fathom any of the wankers.
Ealing would go up if they won the final, yes, and would play out of another ground (Wimbledon mooted), and no doubt the 57 farts and their crony cabal would fond a way to elevate sSarries too.
However, that's the nightmare as it would cripple the Championship clubs even further by being down to 10 clubs.
It's all shite.
I'm assuming Wasps will settle back to around the 8 or 9000 mark after the initial plastic flag freebie spree, unless they miraculously assemble a winning team from the shrapnel they can afford.

shepardo01 said:

Still can't fathom a league where there is no relegation and 80% of the league qualify for a European competition.

How do you think things will be crowd wise for them next season Kneeza??

Also, will they promote Ealing (?) If thet finish top of the Championship. (Sure I read that just for this season they would promote- obviously thinking Saracens would steam roller everyone?)

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I can’t see them getting many fans next season.
People have found other things to do, there isn’t the loyalty to the club that a genuine city team has, and now their results are crap.

There also seems to have been a drop in interest in the game, partly COVID driven, partly some very negative games, so sone floating fans are drifting away. In addition to this if Saracens are promoted, if they aren’t the league play off winner, then the RFU risk making the game a joke.

Personally I find a closed shop top league awful, and a lot of fans feel the same. Makes a lot of games pointless, and if Wasps continue to be poor, their attendances will dwindle further.
Hopefully one day that may tempt them to bigger off back down south. ( Just my opinion of course)

oldfiver said:

Premiership relegation set to be suspended until at least 2024-25

EXCLUSIVE BY CHRIS FOY: Sportsmail understands that talks have led to a plan for no club to go down from the Premiership for four seasons including the current one.

www.dailymail.co.uk

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I guess now is a good time to try and make stupid changes why the eyes are on Football.

All this will do is decrease fans wanting to watch rugby.