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Wasps downward spiral... (6 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 13, 2020
  • #1,961
jordan210 said:
Im sure Dave knows more. I think people sell due due to confidence and if they don't think they will make anything back. As I assume was goes pop or default on the bond they don't get anything.
Click to expand...
I'm not an expert, only know what my account has told me when I've bugged him about it!

But that seems pretty much it. You don't sell something for £40 if you know you're getting £100 for it in less than 2 years.

Would guess that also means there's concerns about the security (ie: the Ricoh) covering the amount owed if Wasps can't pay.
 
Reactions: duffer

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 13, 2020
  • #1,962
MusicDating said:
Yer, so someone has traded 10k of bonds at 37p this morning. Assuming they bought them at issue, then they've just lost £6300.
Click to expand...
37 quid isn't it? Not pence.
Or have I been getting it wrong all along?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 13, 2020
  • #1,963
Kneeza said:
37 quid isn't it? Not pence.
Or have I been getting it wrong all along?
Click to expand...
It doesn't really matter, it's 37% so £37 on £100 investment or 37p on £1 investment.
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 13, 2020
  • #1,964
Liquid Gold said:
It doesn't really matter, it's 37% so £37 on £100 investment or 37p on £1 investment.
Click to expand...
Yeah, fair enough. I just understood the bond unit price to be £100 at release, that's all.
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 13, 2020
  • #1,965
Kneeza said:
37 quid isn't it? Not pence.
Or have I been getting it wrong all along?
Click to expand...

The initial offer was at 100% of the bond price

Moving forward the current offer price is 37%.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 13, 2020
  • #1,966
jordan210 said:
Im sure Dave knows more. I think people sell due due to confidence and if they don't think they will make anything back. As I assume was goes pop or default on the bond they don't get anything.
Click to expand...

You are more correct than Dave actually
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 14, 2020
  • #1,967
So if the 35m is secured against the stadium and they have to sell the stadium to repay bonds, if they sell for 35m all bondholders get their capital back.

If people are selling at (around) 37%, that would suggest the bonholders don't think the stadium could be sold for 13m (37% of the 35m) in 2 years time, but isn't it in the books as valued at around 51m?

All very strange, seems like a bargain to buy at this price.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 14, 2020
  • #1,968
CCFC88 said:
So if the 35m is secured against the stadium and they have to sell the stadium to repay bonds, if they sell for 35m all bondholders get their capital back.

If people are selling at (around) 37%, that would suggest the bonholders don't think the stadium could be sold for 13m (37% of the 35m) in 2 years time, but isn't it in the books as valued at around 51m?

All very strange, seems like a bargain to buy at this price.
Click to expand...

It doesn’t really work like that

The price is effectively what a seller can get for his bond. It can be an expression of confidence in what it may yield but the individual sellers may have reasons to sell.

The idea would be to raise the money again through re financing and a large proportion of the funding is not the original debt but loans paid back to Richardson and for other development
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 14, 2020
  • #1,969
Trades @ 34.85 today
 

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
  • Jul 14, 2020
  • #1,970
oldfiver said:
Trades @ 34.85 today
Click to expand...
Curious that there's been a fair bit of trading (and taking losses) ahead of a rumoured CCFC announcement tomorrow...
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 14, 2020
  • #1,971
MusicDating said:
Curious that there's been a fair bit of trading (and taking losses) ahead of a rumoured CCFC announcement tomorrow...
Click to expand...

I would assume a coincidence

If bad news would there be more baling out ? If good news price would go up?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 18, 2020
  • #1,972
Interesting response from Statford Council's Active Communities Team. Seems they're not happy with Wasps community involvement statement. They query the loss of facilities and what will be replacing them and if existing users have been consulted with regard to suitable provision being made for them to continue.

Also calls out some of the 'facts' in Wasps statement about alternative facilities in the area saying a lot of it is incorrect.
 
Reactions: AOM, ccfcchris, Nick and 3 others

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 18, 2020
  • #1,973
I think wasps must be kicking themselves for trying to be the big dog when they came in. If they worked I partnership with the club they could have garnered more support but they wanted to assert themselves as the main show and lost any hope of good Will from city fans.
 
Reactions: TomRad85, Kneeza and Bugsy

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 18, 2020
  • #1,974
chiefdave said:
Interesting response from Statford Council's Active Communities Team. Seems they're not happy with Wasps community involvement statement. They query the loss of facilities and what will be replacing them and if existing users have been consulted with regard to suitable provision being made for them to continue.

Also calls out some of the 'facts' in Wasps statement about alternative facilities in the area saying a lot of it is incorrect.
Click to expand...
Have you got a link
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 18, 2020
  • #1,975
Nick said:
Have you got a link
Click to expand...
Its on the Henley Alliance group page on FB. Just had a look. Couldn't link it.
......also, the local Councillor who should be supporting his local constituents, has, on freedom of information sourced e.mails been actively seen to be supporting the application. Russ and the group aren't impressed!!
Worth a look.....
 

Covstu

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 18, 2020
  • #1,976
Liquid Gold said:
I think wasps must be kicking themselves for trying to be the big dog when they came in. If they worked I partnership with the club they could have garnered more support but they wanted to assert themselves as the main show and lost any hope of good Will from city fans.
Click to expand...
Yep when straight for the throat from the getgo around the stadium which put backs up. Our owners obviously didn’t help prior to this but a partnership approach to the stadium could have been lucrative for both clubs at the time. Their bid to be the top rugby team in the country failed miserably now seeing our club rise and their bargaining power drop.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2020
  • #1,977
Nick said:
Have you got a link
Click to expand...
Not sure if this will work off my phone.
 

Attachments

  • Letter from SDC Active Communities Team.pdf
    760.6 KB · Views: 34

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2020
  • #1,978
shepardo01 said:
Its on the Henley Alliance group page on FB. Just had a look. Couldn't link it.
......also, the local Councillor who should be supporting his local constituents, has, on freedom of information sourced e.mails been actively seen to be supporting the application. Russ and the group aren't impressed!!
Worth a look.....
Click to expand...

It appears quite a lot of Councillors have a lot of self interest when dealing with rugby clubs doesn't it !
 
Reactions: duffer, Wiseoldfool, Nick and 1 other person

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 19, 2020
  • #1,979
jordan210 said:
It appears quite a lot of Councillors have a lot of self interest when dealing with rugby clubs doesn't it !
Click to expand...
I can't see it, what they getting?
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2020
  • #1,980
Nick said:
I can't see it, what they getting?
Click to expand...

Thats the document from the group. Looks like some one from Wasps emailing the Councillor saying he will show his support.

Looks like the earlier conversations are missing mids you
 

Attachments

  • REDACTED_ Update re Henley-In-Arden and Wasps.pdf 1_Redacted.pdf
    207.6 KB · Views: 29

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 25, 2020
  • #1,981
Sport England have put in an objection to the training ground planning application. Its pretty scathing.

Says a statement from Wasps isn't a community agreement and they require an actual agreement to be in place, basically they won't let Wasps give some waffle now and not follow through on anything if they get the go ahead.

Not happy that the current facilities are being removed and not replaced. Say you can't just give a list of other facilities, they need proof they have capacity and the users of the Henly site would be able to access them.

They seem to have spoken to clubs Wasps claim have relocated from Henly and been told no they haven't so have called Wasps out on that.

Wasps have claimed there will be a new pitch available for use which according to Sport England does't actually appear on the plans.

Obviously I'm not a planning officer but looking at what Sport England have submitted I struggle to see how this gets approved.
 

Attachments

  • 5121ca1c-9d62-cf0f-8f48-08d82f1c48ab.pdf
    4.2 MB · Views: 11
Reactions: Frostie, Kneeza, pipkin73 and 2 others
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 25, 2020
  • #1,982
chiefdave said:
Sport England have put in an objection to the training ground planning application. Its pretty scathing.

Says a statement from Wasps isn't a community agreement and they require an actual agreement to be in place, basically they won't let Wasps give some waffle now and not follow through on anything if they get the go ahead.

Not happy that the current facilities are being removed and not replaced. Say you can't just give a list of other facilities, they need proof they have capacity and the users of the Henly site would be able to access them.

They seem to have spoken to clubs Wasps claim have relocated from Henly and been told no they haven't so have called Wasps out on that.

Wasps have claimed there will be a new pitch available for use which according to Sport England does't actually appear on the plans.

Obviously I'm not a planning officer but looking at what Sport England have submitted I struggle to see how this gets approved.
Click to expand...

But the most telling thing is it is not at the Ricoh site as signed up to at the time of the purchase
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 25, 2020
  • #1,983
chiefdave said:
Sport England have put in an objection to the training ground planning application. Its pretty scathing.

Says a statement from Wasps isn't a community agreement and they require an actual agreement to be in place, basically they won't let Wasps give some waffle now and not follow through on anything if they get the go ahead.

Not happy that the current facilities are being removed and not replaced. Say you can't just give a list of other facilities, they need proof they have capacity and the users of the Henly site would be able to access them.

They seem to have spoken to clubs Wasps claim have relocated from Henly and been told no they haven't so have called Wasps out on that.

Wasps have claimed there will be a new pitch available for use which according to Sport England does't actually appear on the plans.

Obviously I'm not a planning officer but looking at what Sport England have submitted I struggle to see how this gets approved.
Click to expand...
I just don’t know how the bastards can sleep at night....
 
Reactions: Gynnsthetonic

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 25, 2020
  • #1,984
CCFC54321 said:
I just don’t know how the bastards can sleep at night....
Click to expand...
Wasps lying?..... surely not!
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 25, 2020
  • #1,985
shepardo01 said:
Wasps lying?..... surely not!
Click to expand...

Wasps-Münchausen syndrome- is a natural reaction to lie when faced with anything asked to them. The city of Coventry has them branded as them telling lies, but the correct diagnosis for the pathological lies told by the broke London rugby club is Wasps-Münchausen syndrome.
 

speedie87

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2020
  • #1,986
So wasps announced they were in breach of the covenants on the bonds a few weeks back.......is there a time limit on when that has to be resolved or a date where bond holders can call in the security on the bonds by?

Surely that would be more realistic way of bond holders seeing a return at the moment?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2020
  • #1,987
speedie87 said:
So wasps announced they were in breach of the covenants on the bonds a few weeks back.......is there a time limit on when that has to be resolved or a date where bond holders can call in the security on the bonds by?

Surely that would be more realistic way of bond holders seeing a return at the moment?
Click to expand...

There is a Trustee (appointed by WASPS) who is responsible to ensure the covenants are being met. However he does not have to disclose to anyone who is not a Bond Holder so we do not know the position. The understanding is more than 25% of the Bond Holders have to agree to any action or changes
 

slyblue57

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2020
  • #1,988
Little chance, sadly, the Bond holders wo nt agree to the Franchise delaying payment again . The crux will be in 2022 . Strange that no action has been taken re the Franchises falsification of their accounts though.
 

speedie87

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2020
  • #1,989
slyblue57 said:
Little chance, sadly, the Bond holders wo nt agree to the Franchise delaying payment again . The crux will be in 2022 . Strange that no action has been taken re the Franchises falsification of their accounts though.
Click to expand...

I contacted the fsa a year or so ago now after the reports in ft about the investigation in them re the accounts fraud, and me not not being able to find anything on their website about its status. They eventually told me there was no investigation.
 
Reactions: covcity4life
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2020
  • #1,990
slyblue57 said:
Little chance, sadly, the Bond holders wo nt agree to the Franchise delaying payment again . The crux will be in 2022 . Strange that no action has been taken re the Franchises falsification of their accounts though.
Click to expand...

Depends on who the majority of bond holders are !
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #1,991
There's certainly dynamite in those redacted emails.

"I’m meeting the new developer who should be purchasing the old college buildings this Thursday to discuss the acquisition of one or both of the existing pitches. They seem keen to sell at least one."
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #1,992
Can you post them up?
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #1,993
Nick said:
Can you post them up?
Click to expand...

jordan210 said:
Thats the document from the group. Looks like some one from Wasps emailing the Councillor saying he will show his support.

Looks like the earlier conversations are missing mids you
Click to expand...



The Email is a bit ambiguous about the plans for the pitches; who wants to sell them, who owns them, if one of the pitches is being kept by the original owners, or if the developer is keen to sell on one of the pitches after acquisition.

There's probably more information somewhere which will clear this stuff up.

Land for development must be at a premium in Henley-In-Arden.
 

Attachments

  • REDACTED_ Update re Henley-In-Arden and Wasps.pdf 1_Redacted-1.pdf
    207.6 KB · Views: 13
Last edited: Jul 29, 2020

speedie87

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #1,994
Does anyone know the case number for eu state aid case can’t find one on eu website - don’t know if they only publish them once final, but want to chase them up and they want a reference.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2020
  • #1,995
speedie87 said:
Does anyone know the case number for eu state aid case can’t find one on eu website - don’t know if they only publish them once final, but want to chase them up and they want a reference.
Click to expand...
It won't be on that website until there is an outcome
 
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