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Wasps downward spiral... (4 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 12, 2020
  • #1,296
Bond has taken a big drop in last couple of days.

Some will be corona related but not all bonds have dropped
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 13, 2020
  • #1,297
Bonds are down to their lowest ever level and still dropping..
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 13, 2020
  • #1,298
Devastated for them. It’s a bad time to be massively over-leveraged and with attendances dropping like a stone (and likely to dry up completely for a while).

Refinancing the bond is going to be crippling, and credit might be hard to come by in the coming months with all of the uncertainty around. Markets are pricing in the risk, I’d expect the bond to fall even lower.
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 13, 2020
  • #1,299
duffer said:
Devastated for them. It’s a bad time to be massively over-leveraged and with attendances dropping like a stone (and likely to dry up completely for a while).

Refinancing the bond is going to be crippling, and credit might be hard to come by in the coming months with all of the uncertainty around. Markets are pricing in the risk, I’d expect the bond to fall even lower.
Click to expand...

Id expect it to be at late 50's by middle of next week if the current tend continues.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 13, 2020
  • #1,300
duffer said:
Devastated for them. It’s a bad time to be massively over-leveraged and with attendances dropping like a stone (and likely to dry up completely for a while).

Refinancing the bond is going to be crippling, and credit might be hard to come by in the coming months with all of the uncertainty around. Markets are pricing in the risk, I’d expect the bond to fall even lower.
Click to expand...

TBH the bond price doesn't have any day to day impact on them, but it's going to be another of a long list of factors that mean re-financing is going to be difficult if not impossible. I do wonder if something is afoot in relation to the bonds, @oldskyblue58 pointed out that they'd filed their reports way earlier than expected by the LSE. Is there something to read into that?
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,301
The Drunken Wasps forum don’t hold out much hope for Wasps survival even there fans now starting to realise it was a bad decision moving to Coventry.
 
Reactions: ccfcchris and Skyblueweeman

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,302
Wowza the bond has taken a massive hit today lost about 19%

Currently around £55

edit no idea what's going in with it now. not sure if its been suspended or something as LSE isn't showing data for it.

Some sites showing its under 50 now.
 
Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,303
jordan210 said:
Wowza the bond has taken a massive hit today lost about 19%

Currently around £55
Click to expand...
Said before refinancing might not be as easy as people like to suggest. But now on top of several years of poor figures and the uncertainly around the damage Brexit could do economically, they have this to deal with. All this while the repayment date is getting closer and closer. Only 26 months to go now.

Its so bad even some of their own fans are starting to get it!
 
Last edited: Mar 16, 2020

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,304
chiefdave said:
Said before refinancing might not be as easy as people like to suggest. But know on top of several years of poor figures and the uncertainly around the damage Brexit could do economically, they have this to deal with. All this while the repayment date is getting closer and closer. Only 26 months to go now.

Its so bad even some of their own fans are starting to get it!
Click to expand...

Im currently not sure what's even going on with the bond. LSE website has taken some data away from it. Another site is showing it down to 49.

Not sure if this is just errors or the bind is in free fall.

Quite a few bonds and stocks for some have massively dropped last week, mainly in entertainment and eating out sector so could all be related.
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,305
jordan210 said:
Im currently not sure what's even going on with the bond. LSE website has taken some data away from it. Another site is showing it down to 49.

Not sure if this is just errors or the bind is in free fall.

Quite a few bonds and stocks for some have massively dropped last week, mainly in entertainment and eating out sector so could all be related.
Click to expand...
Mirroring the trajectory of the crowd figures.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,306
jordan210 said:
Im currently not sure what's even going on with the bond. LSE website has taken some data away from it. Another site is showing it down to 49.

Not sure if this is just errors or the bind is in free fall.

Quite a few bonds and stocks for some have massively dropped last week, mainly in entertainment and eating out sector so could all be related.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it most definitely is linked to the wider world but it just won't recover as far as I see it.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,307
It doesn't really have any material effect on them though does it. It's probably people cashing in on investments that they feel are higher risk to ensure they are secure during the coming recession. The big problem will come in May 22 when they can't afford to pay them back or refinance them without payday loan interest rates.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,308
Bond bid offer price now down to 46.80 51.60 since 3.30 today
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,309
Liquid Gold said:
It doesn't really have any material effect on them though does it. It's probably people cashing in on investments that they feel are higher risk to ensure they are secure during the coming recession. The big problem will come in May 22 when they can't afford to pay them back or refinance them without payday loan interest rates.
Click to expand...
That's it, they amount they have to pay back is still the same no matter if the bond price is 50 or 150, only effects the people who have bought the bonds. Great to see the vote of no confidence from the market though, refinancing this is going to be almost impossible if they go on to lose 10m a year till 2022, nobody in their right mind would lend them that money. City going back on a deal massively in their favour is the only way they're saved.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,310
CCFC88 said:
That's it, they amount they have to pay back is still the same no matter if the bond price is 50 or 150, only effects the people who have bought the bonds. Great to see the vote of no confidence from the market though, refinancing this is going to be almost impossible if they go on to lose 10m a year till 2022, nobody in their right mind would lend them that money. City going back on a deal massively in their favour is the only way they're saved.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the good news is the city saying these are not worth the risk, effectively saying you're not going to get your money back as they're a basket case.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,311
When they get to a tenner who will have the means?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,312
Liquid Gold said:
Yeah, the good news is the city saying these are not worth the risk, effectively saying you're not going to get your money back as they're a basket case.
Click to expand...

It also affects the creditor confidence in other areas of their business too
 
Reactions: duffer

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,313
Something odd has happened. The close price is now showing back at 68 but bid price is under 50. Something has gone majorly wrong somewhere.

No idea what the true price is.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,314
jordan210 said:
Something odd has happened. The close price is now showing back at 68 but bid price is under 50. Something has gone majorly wrong somewhe

The 68 was the last trade

The lower figures are market recommendations

No idea what the true price is.
Click to expand...
 

steveo1987

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,315
jordan210 said:
Something odd has happened. The close price is now showing back at 68 but bid price is under 50. Something has gone majorly wrong somewhere.

No idea what the true price is.
Click to expand...

I think the true price is hovering around
-£60m
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2020
  • #1,316

it’s not shown trades since the 13th but normally when there has been movement people sell.

The charts showed down 28% at one point then went and all data wiped. All a bit odd. Hopefully in a few days the data is sorted out.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,317
what a lovely sport
Is genital grabbing a problem in rugby?
 
B

bradwellskyblues

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,318
bond now worth 24p
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,319
bradwellskyblues said:
bond now worth 24p
Click to expand...
Not sure that's right, is that not the price of the highest offer that someone is willing to pay, don't think there has been a sale made at that price
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,320
CCFC88 said:
Not sure that's right, is that not the price of the highest offer that someone is willing to pay, don't think there has been a sale made at that price
Click to expand...

The spread is 25 > 27

That would make them junk
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,321
CCFC88 said:
Not sure that's right, is that not the price of the highest offer that someone is willing to pay, don't think there has been a sale made at that price
Click to expand...

There is a market that happens before a trade
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,322
CCFC88 said:
Not sure that's right, is that not the price of the highest offer that someone is willing to pay, don't think there has been a sale made at that price
Click to expand...
Got to be an error hasn't it? Stock Exchange shows a 42% drop in value in a day.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,323
Coventry looks like it's on course to have its first fatality from Coronavirus.



WASPS 22 retail bond price (WAS1) - London Stock Exchange
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,324
Ooh Chief, beat me to it by a few minutes.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,325
chiefdave said:
Got to be an error hasn't it? Stock Exchange shows a 42% drop in value in a day.
View attachment 14460
Click to expand...

It was low yesterday - people trying to sell?
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,326
The drop is over 60%
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,327
I've no idea what all these bond prices mean or correlate to but it all looks like it's bad news for Wasps.

The best news I've heard in days. Still feel sorry for original London supporters who saw their club ripped away. The rest of them though...sod em.
 
Reactions: TomRad85 and duffer
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,328
Not mentioned yet on Drunken WASPS or Always a WASP forums
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,329
I’m I reading it wrong I see 73p

WASPS 22 retail bond price (WAS1) - London Stock Exchange
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2020
  • #1,330
Grendel said:
I’m I reading it wrong I see 73p

WASPS 22 retail bond price (WAS1) - London Stock Exchange
Click to expand...


Reading wrong - I think - I do not see 73

The guide is the Bid - Offer price
That is market offers coming in from potential buyers and sellers. These are the market makers - some big players are trying to sell by the looks of it
 
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