Wasps current finances & hope (1 Viewer)

duffer · Mar 3, 2018

italiahorse said:
Just enjoying watching Rugby at many levels.
It doesn't really effect CCFC or CRFC so I have a clear conscience.

It's a shame your thought processes aren't as clear as your conscience. Clearly the fact that CCFC will never own the Ricoh has an absolutely massive impact on the club.

With regard to CRFC they're doing pretty well and looking very good for promotion this year. I wonder how much better they would do though in terms of crowds if:

a) They had the Council cheerleading for them as much as they did for Wasps.
b) They didn't have to compete for fans on their doorstep. Especially when Wasps very quickly ditched the promise not to play on Saturdays.

The truth is that we'll never know the impact that Wasps have had or will have on CRFC...

And again, it's the hypocrisy of the argument that staggers me. It's OK for Wasps to move 80 miles up the road permanently, but you're outraged that CCFC went to Northampton.

Hiding behind 'nomadic' doesn't cut it, West London to High Wycombe isn't 'nomadic', any more than CCFC going to Northampton makes us nomads.

Moving to 'survive' doesn't cut it, unless you're willing to accept that our owners could make exactly the same argument to move us away again.

I don't mind people going to Wasps to enjoy themselves, it's a free country and I wouldn't abuse anyone for making that choice. However, where I get annoyed is when people start with the spurious arguments to salve their conscience. There's no need, enjoy it by all means but don't make up stuff to make yourself feel better about it.

italiahorse · Mar 3, 2018

chiefdave said:
Shame Wasps owners have given no indication of feeling the same way since the day they rolled in to the city.

Yes because everybody enjoys a court case solely to put them out of business ?

Grendel · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
Yes because everybody enjoys a court case solely to put them out of business ?

You say you enjoy rugby at all levels but when I last looked hadn’t bothered to look at the CRFC thread once.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Grendel said:
You say you enjoy rugby at all levels but when I last looked hadn’t bothered to look at the CRFC thread once.

Coventry Welsh for me.
I do look at the thread for the latest but rarely comment.

Nick · Mar 4, 2018

Not really all levels is it?

It's like me saying I love football at any level because I watch my brother play sunday league and support Man Utd.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Nick said:
Not really all levels is it?

It's like me saying I love football at any level because I watch my brother play sunday league and support Man Utd.

Coventry Welsh beat Bedworth last week so no its a reasonable level.
Throw in that my daughter and now my granddaughter play for Coventry Welsh ladies and that's my Rugby fix.

Nick · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
Coventry Welsh beat Bedworth last week so no its a reasonable level.
Throw in that my daughter and now my granddaughter play for Coventry Welsh ladies and that's my Rugby fix.

So it's not at all levels, it's at the glory level and the family playing for them at a low level which is understandable.

Just like I said in the first post.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Nick said:
So it's not at all levels, it's at the glory level and the family playing for them at a low level which is understandable.

Just like I said in the first post.

No you said Sunday League level.
The fact that my family play doesn't mean it is low level. [ They have my Genes ]
Are you saying Bedworth level does not count and only CRFC does ?
I can't get to watch CRFC because they nearly always play when CCFC play but I do hope they get promoted and now have a passing interest.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
A new owner could build a new stadium surely ?

Which would require them to:

a) Find a suitable site
b) Secure planning permission
c) Buy the land
d) Build the stadium

Which would all take a very long time and cost a very large amount of money. Doesn't make a great deal of sense when the stadium built for the football club and which still has its initials in the seats is all there and ready to go. What also doesn't make sense to me is that the club you support for 51 years has been permanently shafted by the arrival of a club that has been here for 2 and a half, and you're OK with it?

That and Nick 'We're not a franchise' Eastwood.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Which would require them to:

a) Find a suitable site
b) Secure planning permission
c) Buy the land
d) Build the stadium

Which would all take a very long time and cost a very large amount of money. Doesn't make a great deal of sense when the stadium built for the football club and which still has its initials in the seats is all there and ready to go. What also doesn't make sense to me is that the club you support for 51 years has been permanently shafted by the arrival of a club that has been here for 2 and a half, and you're OK with it?

That and Nick 'We're not a franchise' Eastwood.

But surely if you can afford to buy the Ricoh you can afford to build your own stadium ? (Unless you want the freehold for nothing LOL)
Okay it will take 5 to 10 years but if Sisu had started it when they said, it would be up and running now.
Sisu are building us a stadium and CCC have moved on.

Nick · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
But surely if you can afford to buy the Ricoh you can afford to build your own stadium ? (Unless you want the freehold for nothing LOL)
Okay it will take 5 to 10 years but if Sisu had started it when they said, it would be up and running now.
Sisu are building us a stadium and CCC have moved on.

So why didn't wasps build down south?

Nick · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
No you said Sunday League level.
The fact that my family play doesn't mean it is low level. [ They have my Genes ]
Are you saying Bedworth level does not count and only CRFC does ?
I can't get to watch CRFC because they nearly always play when CCFC play but I do hope they get promoted and now have a passing interest.

I'm saying it's clearly not all levels...

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
But surely if you can afford to buy the Ricoh you can afford to build your own stadium ? (Unless you want the freehold for nothing LOL)
Okay it will take 5 to 10 years but if Sisu had started it when they said, it would be up and running now.
Sisu are building us a stadium and CCC have moved on.

And you have just given a perfect reason as to why Wasps didn't need to move. Nick, frame this post.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Nick said:
So why didn't wasps build down south?

Empty stadium nobody wanted at commercial rates ?

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Nick said:
I'm saying it's clearly not all levels...

It's a good spread.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
And you have just given a perfect reason as to why Wasps didn't need to move. Nick, frame this post.

So Wasps would have been better at Wycombe financially ?
TF said they wouldn't have paid what Wasps paid.

Grendel · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
So Wasps would have been better at Wycombe financially ?
TF said they wouldn't have paid what Wasps paid.

Irrelevant.

Nick · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
Empty stadium nobody wanted at commercial rates ?

Make your mind up, if people can afford to buy they can afford to build.

This is where you get stuck every time.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Nick said:
Make your mind up, if people can afford to buy they can afford to build.

This is where you get stuck every time.

You need to pick up the argument above where he said that the stadium was built for CCFC and now Wasps have moved in they can't buy it.
If they want to buy it the cost will be similar to building a new stadium.
This is the same argument where people say they CCFC can't be bought because they can't also buy the stadium.
Buy the club first then build a new ground later and combine the two. It will be similar costs.

Grendel · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
You need to pick up the argument above where he said that the stadium was built for CCFC and now Wasps have moved in they can't buy it.
If they want to buy it the cost will be similar to building a new stadium.
This is the same argument where people say they CCFC can't be bought because they can't also buy the stadium.
Buy the club first then build a new ground later and combine the two. It will be similar costs.

The stadium cost wasps under £6 million.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Grendel said:
The stadium cost wasps under £6 million.

But we are talking ownership above.
We have already lost interested parties because the freehold was not for sale pre Sisu.

Grendel · Mar 4, 2018

Waspy Bob said:
Lol, not quite.

I'm not Italia, I dont even know who he is. I'm one of the admins from the Wasps forum you guys love so much. I lurk here from time to time because I remember how shit it was being a tennant for a club that didn't want us there. I'd like to think we'd treat you guys better than we were treated by WW, but to be honest I think most of your club's downfall is self inflicted, however nice it feels to blame Wasps.

You banned me from your site you tosser

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
You need to pick up the argument above where he said that the stadium was built for CCFC and now Wasps have moved in they can't buy it.
If they want to buy it the cost will be similar to building a new stadium.
This is the same argument where people say they CCFC can't be bought because they can't also buy the stadium.
Buy the club first then build a new ground later and combine the two. It will be similar costs.

There is your argument that anyone who can afford to buy a ground can afford to build one. So why didn't Wasps build one?

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
There is your argument that anyone who can afford to buy a ground can afford to build one. So why didn't Wasps build one?

They couldn't afford it, particularly in London area.

fernandopartridge · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
There is your argument that anyone who can afford to buy a ground can afford to build one. So why didn't Wasps build one?

Remember when SISU had been told that the council share was sacrosanct and the council would need a clear business case to sell to the club? Did it apply those same tests to Wasps who subsequently loaded the stadium with £34m debt?

chiefdave · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
But surely if you can afford to buy the Ricoh you can afford to build your own stadium ? (Unless you want the freehold for nothing LOL)

italiahorse said:
If they want to buy it the cost will be similar to building a new stadium.

Cost of building the Ricoh was £113m, adjust that for inflation and today that would be £165m

Wasps paid £6.54m, adjust that for inflation and today that would be £7.13m

Now I'm not a maths genius but I'm pretty sure £165m and £7m aren't equitable amounts.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
So Wasps would have been better at Wycombe financially ?
TF said they wouldn't have paid what Wasps paid.

I don't give a toss about whether or not they'd be better off because funnily enough I wasn't a Wasps fan nor will I ever be. Though again, you're applying one set of standards for them and another for the football club. If it wasn't sustainable to stay at the Ricoh under present conditions why should they have stayed and put up with it?

The aim of going to Northampton was to devalue ACL with a view to getting it on the cheap. Which worked-for Wasps. So in a roundabout way you have SISU to thank for the half time steak ciabatta.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Grendel said:
You banned me from your site you tosser

You were an idiot. Bit like on here.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
They couldn't afford it, particularly in London area.

Ah so if you buy one you can't always build one?

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I don't give a toss about whether or not they'd be better off because funnily enough I wasn't a Wasps fan nor will I ever be. Though again, you're applying one set of standards for them and another for the football club. If it wasn't sustainable to stay at the Ricoh under present conditions why should they have stayed and put up with it?

The aim of going to Northampton was to devalue ACL with a view to getting it on the cheap. Which worked-for Wasps. So in a roundabout way you have SISU to thank for the half time steak ciabatta.

Fair do's for getting it cheap, that's business.
But then they thought they could go for the freehold.
Only one party at fault here and I know who it is.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Remember when SISU had been told that the council share was sacrosanct and the council would need a clear business case to sell to the club? Did it apply those same tests to Wasps who subsequently loaded the stadium with £34m debt?

Cllr Lucas was also insistent that there was a basis for acquiring the share once arrangements to return were made. At the same time putting the finishing touches on gifting the ground to Wasps.

chiefdave · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Cllr Lucas was also insistent that there was a basis for acquiring the share once arrangements to return were made. At the same time putting the finishing touches on gifting the ground to Wasps.

As well as insisting that ACL weren't losing money.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 4, 2018

italiahorse said:
Fair do's for getting it cheap, that's business.
But then they thought they could go for the freehold.
Only one party at fault here and I know who it is.

So it was legitimate to move to Northampton to try and bust ACL?

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Cllr Lucas was also insistent that there was a basis for acquiring the share once arrangements to return were made. At the same time putting the finishing touches on gifting the ground to Wasps.

I guess they can spot a sound business case ?
CCFC only returned because Wasps were coming. No other reason.

italiahorse · Mar 4, 2018

Brighton Sky Blue said:
So it was legitimate to move to Northampton to try and bust ACL?

No they had ample opportunity to buy into Higgs share. A little more negotiation and who knows.
Applying a strangle hold to CCC was always risky and it went wrong.
Having said that we lost the stadium long before Sisu arrived.

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