RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
You are right, it's still in ACL's court tho if they reject the CVA..
Because it is a necessary step in the right direction for CCFC.
To suggest they will not come back is ridiculous. You've defeated yourself with that.
I still believe there will be a cancellation clause, and that this is all a duel between SISU/ACL I sincerely hope ACL are considering how their actions may hamstring them right this moment. I'll be there supporting the club.
If you did then it might open your eyes a bit.
Because it is a necessary step in the right direction for CCFC.
.
How privvy are you to that info?
Everybody is, the details were posted on the Trust website months ago.
Can't see how they can I assume people who agree to invest in such funds are aware these are high risk investments.
Thanks must have been while I was on holiday or something..
Wait your not talking about the time where SISU claimed everything was Sub Judice?
Thank-you chaps - Bottom line is, SISU haven't done a lot right during their time here. But to support the council in their underhanded efforts to prevent our club from capturing the one asset that would bring greatness again is psych-ward committal worthy.
Even though the poster makes a valid point and I do agree it's not all SISU's fault. However, we need a stadium and acl etc have point blank said they won't sell it to SISU. So would they sell it to ccfc ltd instead? Erm, no. Because it would be transfered to SISU for them to do the same as they have done to the club. Run it into the ground.
We live in a supposedly democratic country. However as ever the majority (ad seen on polls on here) don't count for jack shit as the majority don't want SISU as owners. I don't care where we play as long as sisu go. Enough chances. Enough said.
Really? See you wouldn't of got that impression at the forums..
Because it is a necessary step in the right direction for CCFC.
To suggest they will not come back is ridiculous. You've defeated yourself with that.
I still believe there will be a cancellation clause, and that this is all a duel between SISU/ACL I sincerely hope ACL are considering how their actions may hamstring them right this moment. I'll be there supporting the club.
I see another 'FAN' has appeared out of the woodwork to spout more pro hedge fund garbage !! It's all a bit too obvious really !
Yep that's it. I must confess, it's been an enlightening affair engaging with you fans. On the strength of my findings I might become a turncoat and start supporting ACL against my employers.
Get real kiddo! And change the frickin record already!
For anyone thinking coffee man is TF, look at when he joined the forum-pre dates his appointment at CCFC.
37 Pages and 367 posts later.....
I've been posting mainly off my phone lately so didn't notice it till now.
I am largely a reader of this forum, not a poster (I'm unsure of precisely what my post count is, but it will be low), but I have to make an exception in this case.
I've avoided this forum like the plague now for some time because frankly it's depressing watching the majority of supporters peddle the agenda of the club's landlords and particularly the council who have been heavily involved with the skullduggery surrounding our club, principally because they seem to have you all convinced that their hands are not blood stained, despite the punitive measures they have taken against your football club!
I presume you refer to the rental agreement, in which case that was a "punishment", rightly or wrongly, that the club agreed to.
It is no secret that SISU have consistently left us wanting more during their tenure, but yet two facts remain;
1. They have invested a large sum of money in our club (albeit whilst annotating it on the balance sheet as loans).
Definition of investing: Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property etc. Definition of expend - spend or use up. If Sisu have used it up, why is much of it still on the books?
2. Everybody seemed to be happy with progress this year under SISU until this stadium debacle.
Yes, the progress from the Championship to League 1 was excellent.
Ultimately, SISU are in the right here, as painful as it might be to admit it. It has been well publicised that there are impending problems for clubs under the 'financial fair play' rules. Predominantly this is very simple, we can only spend what we make in ticket sales/sponsorship etc on sustaining the club and maintaining a competitive playing squad.
How much are we going to make at Northampton compared to the rental agreement offered in January for use of the Ricoh?
At present we make precious little, and consequently, we will really feel the bite when these rules come into force. If you think a ten point deduction is hard to swallow, the consequences of not fitting in with these rules will have our club in a serious nosedive and have us tumbling down the leagues quicker than you can say 'maybe that coffee guy was right'.
Yes, how far can we fall during the 3 years (minimum) of self-imposed income restriction for playing in Northampton?
Simply put for the primate contingent of this forum; some derp once upon a time made a real balls up when negotiating rent for our stadium and as a result, the cash we get in return for the tickets we sell aren't sufficient to support the club without the owners putting money in - which it is not viable long term for those owners to do because in time they will be prohibited from doing so.
I'm glad you are talking to the humans that inhabit this forum, not the sheep or robots or whatever. Indeed, the previous owners did balls up. I'm glad Sisu saw fit to correct it on purchasing the club. Oh, wait...
The owners are business people, and bought in with the idea one day of either taking a considerable dividend or planning an exit strategy to sell the club on. This is their right and I support that. We aren't playing subbuteo here, we're playing football manager...
Of course they do have a right to make money. Anyone who enters football for the sole purpose of making money is likely to have this ambition severely tested though.
The club had every right to request that the arena bosses revisited the rent agreement. It is in their best interests for the club to prosper! The club and the stadium are supposed to behave like husband and wife. The stadium is cheating on the club at the moment with the council! I'm sure if the club became champions league chasers, then the arena would be looking for a substantial rent increase! This works both ways....
How is the stadium cheating on the club with the council? The club handed off its interest in the stadium when it couldn't afford to pursue it. The club were reportedly offered a rental agreement based on performance but turned it down.
This exercise on SISU's part, is simply to demonstrate to the arena bosses that their arena cannot survive without the club. I support that, and you should too!
Isn't the suggestion that the arena cannot survive without the club an opinion, not a fact? ACL have said they can get by - or do you know better? If so, please share the figures with us.
If we were smart supporters instead of sheeples, your lean would be on the arena bosses and not the club. You'd all turn out in force at Northampton to support our team at home games and frighten the life out of the arena bosses. Additionally you'd all be emailing the businesses that operate on the arena site encouraging them to demand a rent decrease in line with the footfall reduction as a result of CCFC departing from the site.
I thought you said we were primates? And do you mean if we are all unscrupulous, not smart?
Our football club can only survive if we procure the stadium or have a rent agreement that allows us access to a lion share of the money that the supporters invest in watching the team!
Wouldn't it be a better use of Sisu's money to buy back those rights the club sold then rather than build a new stadium?
The council stifled the club's attempt to get serious with the arena bosses by spending FOURTEEN MILLION POUNDS OF TAXPAYERS MONEY propping up ACL. Surely on this forum there are some people who have suffered from council cuts - be it redundancy, policing deficiencies, or perhaps they turn your streetlights off at night turning your area into a criminals wet dream? How can they spend 14M of your money like that, and nobody raise any objection?
Loaned, not spent. It does not lose that money unless ACL defaults on the loan - which you have said you want.
Ultimately, if you were to protest against the council, perhaps their intervention would be punishable. Perhaps they'd have to recover their 14M and ACL would have to remortgage that 14M - Almost impossible with no viable tenants!
Why should I protest against the council for removing the high interest private sector loan and offering a lower interest one which allows the stadium management to make the club an offer to reduce the rent paid by CCFC?
Perhaps then the arena will need to be sold to the people who would most benefit from it. Not SISU - your football club!
If they want to buy it, then buy it, don't go trying to screw people out of money they spent building it because the football club couldn't.
This is all a big game of smoke and mirrors, and SISU will get their way because they are a bunch of sharks - but the supporters are making it unnecessarily difficult for them - Your allegiance is to the club, not the council - I guarantee most here have been wronged by the council some way, at some time in their lives.
Damn that council, building Coventry City a home when they were homeless, paying £900,000 a year or whatever it was to rent their former home and unable to complete the building of their new home.
The club, (in my opinion) will unlikely play long-term at Northants. But if we turned out there in force to support our team, instead of these protests of about five people that frankly look pitiful, perhaps we can affect positive change over our clubs future and restore it to former glory.
I'm glad you are confident the club will not be playing long-term in Northampton. Where is the new ground going to be built? When will Sisu acquire planning permission?
Does anyone understand how irksome it is, every time our captain posts about tennis/golf/his holiday/his pets it is for you all to turn it into some innuendo filled rant about the club and the owners.
My irk would be some, that is true.
I'm sure you will all have your problems with this post, but I could no longer be silent.
See my notes in blue
PUSB!
KCIC!
Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if someone has already made these points in blue...
Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if someone has already made these points in blue...
A judge has listened to both sides and taken a view.
His view? One side was behaving illegally. No?
How can you negotiate with someone who won't honour contracts or the law?
I presume you refer to the rental agreement, in which case that was a "punishment", rightly or wrongly, that the club agreed to.
No Sir, I was referring to the council's high handed approach to the situation business that left the club (YOUR club) in a more unstable position because it provided ACL with the security they needed to refuse to be reasonable, which subsequently they appear to have been.
Definition of investing: Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property etc. Definition of expend - spend or use up. If Sisu have used it up, why is much of it still on the books?
Your definition of investing is a non-primary definition, you have picked the most appropriate definition.
PRIMARY DEFINITION OF INVESTING;
in·vest [in-vest] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.
I think that SISU have done precisely the above. Clearly you don't have a head for business or you're just a facetious prat!
Yes, the progress from the Championship to League 1 was excellent.
Again, more pedantic crap. After the appointment of MR last season and the associated results there was lots of positive talk on this board, and it was quite protracted.
How much are we going to make at Northampton compared to the rental agreement offered in January for use of the Ricoh?
Try reading my posts. SISU accept that they will be making a loss from this. But they've made losses since they got here, and despite this being a measure that will serve to increase the level of losses in the short term, this is a stepping stone towards long term future financial stability. If you'd read my posts and the entire thread you will have seen this being spoken about.
Yes, how far can we fall during the 3 years (minimum) of self-imposed income restriction for playing in Northampton?
See above - SISU will have calculated risk/losses. This is not a money making exercise, it is an exercise in making the club a financially viable business venture; the alternative - it disappearing into the abyss under FFP rules/regulations.
Indeed, the previous owners did balls up. I'm glad Sisu saw fit to correct it on purchasing the club. Oh, wait...
I've addressed this in my posts also - Dredging up the past is not relative to my point. I've agreed with you all on SISU's catalog of failings; I am simply stating this stadium business is not one of them IN MY OPINION.
Of course they do have a right to make money. Anyone who enters football for the sole purpose of making money is likely to have this ambition severely tested though.
Was this an argument? I don't think anyone can disagree with your point. But your argument strengthens SISU's actions; through hardship they have had to take unorthodox measures - this being one of them. I can't stress any more that if a football club cannot sustain it's outgoings in the nearing future, then they will fall foul of FFP which is precisely the problem that leads to these actions. Why do people find it so hard to digest this very point.
How is the stadium cheating on the club with the council? The club handed off its interest in the stadium when it couldn't afford to pursue it. The club were reportedly offered a rental agreement based on performance but turned it down.
Operative word - 'Reportedly'. There is an awful lot of information in the media, SISU peddled and ACL peddled. The difference is SISU have refuted most of ACL'S press releases, but SISU's remain largely unchallenged. You are making credible sources that appear on face value to be unsupported by fact, largely because you are SISU intolerant on account of their blunders over recent years. I will reiterate - I do not believe the stadium affair to be one of these blunders, and I believe that fans need to divorce the stadium business and SISU's failings in recent years to have a clear perspective.
Isn't the suggestion that the arena cannot survive without the club an opinion, not a fact? ACL have said they can get by - or do you know better? If so, please share the figures with us.
You are correct, it is opinion, not fact. Call it an educated guess. If this were the case, would the council have dived in headfirst to scaffold the arena company? If they were on firm ground even without SISU's rental income, would this measure even be welcomed by ACL
I thought you said we were primates? And do you mean if we are all unscrupulous, not smart?
We are all primates, only some of us behave like humans, others like gibbons. I suggested you were sheeples; You all jump on a bandwagon that has little momentum - hence the five or so plonkers 'protesting' with their signs in recent publications. A quick and effective resolution would be if our supporters backed the establishment that has plundered millions into keeping CCFC alive, despite being unrewarded both financially, and with fan support.
Wouldn't it be a better use of Sisu's money to buy back those rights the club sold then rather than build a new stadium?
Only if figures and all parties were fair and reasonable which it appears is not the case.
Loaned, not spent. It does not lose that money unless ACL defaults on the loan - which you have said you want.
The money has been 'spent' - largely with SISU knowing that much of it is unrecoverable. They've agreed an administration exit plan that sees them writing off a considerable sum, so I don't accept your argument - it's invalid!
Why should I protest against the council for removing the high interest private sector loan and offering a lower interest one which allows the stadium management to make the club an offer to reduce the rent paid by CCFC?
Again, we go back to that word 'reported'. It has also been 'reported' that they did this to wrest control of the matter from the club - you believe what you wish, but as per the nature of my post, I do not, and cannot accept that the council are acting in the best interests of CCFC. Nor do I accept that they lawfully offered that loan - they did not canvass their demographic in advance for opinion. In times such as these, it is a ballsy move, and one that a court may still rule as immoral and unlawful; at which point, will you accept you are wrong?
If they want to buy it, then buy it, don't go trying to screw people out of money they spent building it because the football club couldn't.
It has to be bought for a price that is suitable for all parties. Not just ACL/Council.
Damn that council, building Coventry City a home when they were homeless, paying £900,000 a year or whatever it was to rent their former home and unable to complete the building of their new home.
The council have appropriated money from taxpayers and invested a HUGE sum of it in a stadium mortgage. Meanwhile they make cuts to services, redundancies and even turn streetlights off because they are so lacking in resources.
I'm glad you are confident the club will not be playing long-term in Northampton. Where is the new ground going to be built? When will Sisu acquire planning permission?
The new ground IMO will be the old ground, when ACL drop their egos and look at things objectively and work with the club to reduce figures to an acceptable level. The club have bought themselves three years to allow these negotiations to happen. I doubt they will need three months.
My irk would be some, that is true. .
Yep, very good!
Another one 'coffee' forget to respond to. Selective responses illustrate some gaps in his/her wisdom
I think I summed it all up in the last big post on this thread I wrote. Of the multitude of replies on this thread, they fit into a small number of categories; Pedantic and obnoxious replies that largely rely on SISU's previous mistakes to somehow make them guilty by association of one here, Thug-like 'ur tlkin out ur arz m8', and 'You are TF'.
I concede; You are too smart for me.
See above in pink
I won't reply to every point as the shortage of publicly available information means there will be a myriad of different views on our situation and we could go back and forth forever, but a couple of notes:
I accept that maybe I did not make my point about investment as well as I could have, but I was trying to emphasis what you yourself acknowledged, that a lot of the "investment" is in the form of loans and that Sisu have not put as much of their own cash into the club as some people sometimes seem to give them credit for.
"Loaned, not spent. It does not lose that money unless ACL defaults on the loan - which you have said you want." - this line referred to the council loan, not Sisu loans as you appear to have interpreted it as.
Reported - I used that word specifically because it is not a fact, it is a report. I am making it clear I do not know this for certain. I accept there could be another view. Your original post in many places did not offer such nuanced distinctions.
I have used none of the above; but gladly accept your deference.
You can't negotiate with an entity who will break the law, and renege on contracts at a whim. It's like trying to put smoke in your pockets.
What makes it even more troublesome, is an entity that will play hard-and-loose, as SISU have done with CCFC. They have done so for years with this club, continue to do so even now - and yet some people have the temerity to try and justify their immoral or illegal actions.
SISU have lost heavily in their CCFC-project. This isn't about rent. This isn't about F&B's, nor sponsorship.
They, alone can unify the club and it's stadium due to no reason other than incumbent ownership of the primary tenant of the Arena. They are using this lever to break ACL, secure the Arena at a reaction of it's true cost - and none of this for the good of the club; oh no. But to feather the nest of their exit strategy.
Believe it's for the club, it's future, it's fans? Delusional in the extreme. It's for SISU to cash in on the only card they have left, and get out of town with some return to show their stakeholders. The collateral damage? Immaterial to them
Coffee you accuse others of only spouting pure speculation yet you are doing exactly the same. Pot, kettle and black springs to mind
Many businessmen (some even well-liked) have breached contract, it's a common thing. Allan Sugar screwed was sued for breach of contract with one of his apprentice candidates as I recall, National Rail contracts.....These things happen every day, it's not a capital punishment offence to breach a contract, and it's common practice in business for this to happen more often than it should. It should not rob SISU of all of their credibility.
I agree with everything else that you've said;
SISU are looking to unite stadium and club, and they are planning their exit strategy (feathering of nest). They are doing these things selfishly and for their benefit only.
Where I disagree with you, is that this will benefit the club. If they want to make money, they have to overcome obstacles and put the club back on a stable footing. Either as a sale package or as a profitable business venture.
Ultimately - SISU succeeding in their exit strategy = CCFC succeeding as a business unit.
moving to Northampton means it is no longer CCFC. Why can't you see that? Is there a cast iron guarantee that this 'planned' new stadium will ever get built? I can't believe you actually support the ludicrous ground share idea, it says more about you (not in a positive way) than it does about the thousands who oppose this
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