Waghorn to Derby (1 Viewer)

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
Yes, I genuinely believe his bout of covid put paid to his City career and perhaps even his career at this level. Shame really. You could never fault his effort so don't get the ridiculous vitriol on here.

Totally agree. He and Gyo seemed to link up well at the beginning of last season and had a decent partnership. Covid definitely took the wind out of his sails and he's not been the same since (regardless of off the pitch stuff).

I argue that him and Gyo is/was a better partnership that Godden/Gyo - not that I'm saying Waghorn is a better player than Godden.
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Totally agree. He and Gyo seemed to link up well at the beginning of last season and had a decent partnership. Covid definitely took the wind out of his sails and he's not been the same since (regardless of off the pitch stuff).

I argue that him and Gyo is/was a better partnership that Godden/Gyo - not that I'm saying Waghorn is a better player than Godden.
I don't disagree with that, but Waghorn isn't a starter when everyone is fit, at best he's competing with Tavares and Walker for a place on the bench, and it looks like Tavares may now be ahead of him in the pecking order.
Waghorn is apparently one of the higher earners too, so it makes sence to offload him if we possibly can.

We desperately need to free up some wages to bring in a AM on loan.
And Waghorn needs to find first team football somewhere.
 

Briles

Well-Known Member
He started well tbf then lost his place when he got injured
He then fell out with the manager when he was fit again and couldn't get back in the side
There was only going to be one winner there

Seems to be a lot of this going on of late, why so many people kicking off? I thought this was a tight knit harmonious group.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with that, but Waghorn isn't a starter when everyone is fit, at best he's competing with Tavares and Walker for a place on the bench, and it looks like Tavares may now be ahead of him in the pecking order.
Waghorn is apparently one of the higher earners too, so it makes sence to offload him if we possibly can.

We desperately need to free up some wages to bring in a AM on loan.
And Waghorn needs to find first team football somewhere.

Yeah, I mean if Waghorn was like he was last season before Covid, I think he'd be starting up top with Gyo with Godden and one of Walker/Tavares taking two attacking options on the bench.

As it stands now though, that's obviously not the case.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I mean if Waghorn was like he was last season before Covid, I think he'd be starting up top with Gyo with Godden and one of Walker/Tavares taking two attacking options on the bench.

As it stands now though, that's obviously not the case.
Of course if we're doing the what-ifs, Walker looked terrific partnering Gyokeres against... Barnsley(?) before he got injured, so there's your front two!
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
Yes it does, I said he was a free signing, the only money being payed was his wages. And that we have payed fees for worse players
Transfer fee versus wages who cares it’s the same pot of money and most transfer fees are paid in instalments. A cheap wage player with a fee is less money than a player for free with significant wages (like Waghorn)

Just saying “he only cost us wages we’ve paid fees for worse” is meaningless
 
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AOM

Well-Known Member
Every changing room is portrayed as this, best set of lads massive club etc. Really everyone’s out for themselves

Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. On a strictly player career level, it's in a players interest for other players in that same position to perform poorly for the team, but I'd imagine their media training and managers are constantly getting them to promote the "team first".

Can't remember which football documentary it was where the team were encouraged to all celebrate goals together, so you'd get centre backs jogging the length of the pitch to celebrate, haha
 

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
He got on the pitch at least! That seemed more he was uncoachable than just well in this case, not being very good.

I think what puts Kasntaneer on par in my eyes is that Badlan had apparently been monitoring him since his youth career prior to bringing him to the club. Regardless no due diligence was done on either, but for different reasons.

Hilssner is certainly one of the strangest signings I can remember though. What made it even more bizarre is the development of his asthma issue more or less as soon as he signed. You have to wonder whether a glaring mistake was made in the medical there...
 

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
Some players just dont fit our system or dynamic. Think hes unfortunate theres a good player in there, hes lacking confidence.

Was under pressure before he even started here with perceived big wages tag. But tbf at the time made sense. But if we can cut some losses here well and good..could work well for both parties.

I'm more than happy fir Tavares and Walker as back up to our front 2.
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
I think what puts Kasntaneer on par in my eyes is that Badlan had apparently been monitoring him since his youth career prior to bringing him to the club. Regardless no due diligence was done on either, but for different reasons.

Not as simplistic as that, signings don't work out for a myriad of reasons, doesn't mean no due diligence was done, as you said yourself we'd been monitoring Kastaneer for years.
He's clearly a very talented footballer, had a Premier League move all but agreed earlier in his career & was even a regular in the Dutch top flight last season.

Badlan's comments that technically he's too good for L1 are probably true but it's not just about ability. Coupled with the fact it's a very different game over here (Holland-England transfers are notoriously hit & miss) & he just didn't have the right mentality to make it work.
 

Pezza

Well-Known Member
Just a point on the transfer activity of Badlan and his team, it's been pretty poor I think.

Hamer, O'Hare and Vik yes, however I'm pretty sure O'Hare was on the radar of most clubs as he was a league player in the Carlise United team, Vik was playing in England in u23 football and then on loan, so hardly a 'find'.

I'll give him Hamer, sure but the rest... we basically recruit players that Adi V knows (Kane, Panzo, Dabo, Maatsan, Palmer).

Point being, the others have all be awful and I'm not really sure what Badlan his team and are adding...
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Just a point on the transfer activity of Badlan and his team, it's been pretty poor I think.

Hamer, O'Hare and Vik yes, however I'm pretty sure O'Hare was on the radar of most clubs as he was a league player in the Carlise United team, Vik was playing in England in u23 football and then on loan, so hardly a 'find'.

I'll give him Hamer, sure but the rest... we basically recruit players that Adi V knows (Kane, Panzo, Dabo, Maatsan, Palmer).

Point being, the others have all be awful and I'm not really sure what Badlan his team and are adding...

Talk about a post contradicting your point, recruitment is terrible apart from 3 of the best players we've had for years.
 

saveitforthewombles

Well-Known Member
Just a point on the transfer activity of Badlan and his team, it's been pretty poor I think.

Hamer, O'Hare and Vik yes, however I'm pretty sure O'Hare was on the radar of most clubs as he was a league player in the Carlise United team, Vik was playing in England in u23 football and then on loan, so hardly a 'find'.

I'll give him Hamer, sure but the rest... we basically recruit players that Adi V knows (Kane, Panzo, Dabo, Maatsan, Palmer).

Point being, the others have all be awful and I'm not really sure what Badlan his team and are adding...

Such a dumb post. Since Badlan and the management team have worked together our league position has improved and the overall value of our squad has gone up massively. Highlights: McFadz (free), Rose (free), Moore (free), Walsh (loan), Dabo (free), O'Hare (free), Godden (free), Sheaf, Hamer, Matty James (loan), Gyokeres, Maatsen (loan), Clarke-Salter (loan). The scouting dept has built year on year with improved knowledge and more people on the ground. AND more budget. Of course there are going to be misses - with tight budgets thats more than possible (side note: Premier League clubs with their millions also get it wrong).
 

procdoc

Well-Known Member
Just a point on the transfer activity of Badlan and his team, it's been pretty poor I think.

Hamer, O'Hare and Vik yes, however I'm pretty sure O'Hare was on the radar of most clubs as he was a league player in the Carlise United team, Vik was playing in England in u23 football and then on loan, so hardly a 'find'.

I'll give him Hamer, sure but the rest... we basically recruit players that Adi V knows (Kane, Panzo, Dabo, Maatsan, Palmer).

Point being, the others have all be awful and I'm not really sure what Badlan his team and are adding...
Weird take
 

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Not as simplistic as that, signings don't work out for a myriad of reasons, doesn't mean no due diligence was done, as you said yourself we'd been monitoring Kastaneer for years.
He's clearly a very talented footballer, had a Premier League move all but agreed earlier in his career & was even a regular in the Dutch top flight last season.

Badlan's comments that technically he's too good for L1 are probably true but it's not just about ability. Coupled with the fact it's a very different game over here (Holland-England transfers are notoriously hit & miss) & he just didn't have the right mentality to make it work.

Yeah talent was never really an issue.

Perhaps that's the wrong phrase. Regardless, it was a pretty strange move from the club's part, especially if they were aware of his sheer lack of application that they would've signed him. Which really they probably did, or at the very least they had an indication, given how long Badlan had been scouting him for, yet seemingly ignored. Well, either that or those that Badlan spoke to at Kastaneer's club at the time seriously glossed over the fact he had a terrible work ethic.

As shown with Nazon, Bright etc. the club certainly isn't totally against taking a chance on these types of players. Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing but to put him on a 3-year deal was absurd when the signing was far more of a calculated risk than most are.

Granted he may not have come if the club had offered him a 2 year contract with year option in the club's favour for instance, but that's probably a risk the club really should've taken if they were set on bringing in a player of his type.
 

Pezza

Well-Known Member
It's not really that dumb though is it...

It's just my take...

To clarify there is a difference between recruitment (budget, financing, selling players on, etc) and scouting (finding and identifying talent), so fair enough when you allude to the former but in terms of scouting:

Clarke-Salter - Chelsea link (Adi)
Dabo (Adi)
Maatsen (was already in league 1 season before and Chelsea link again)
Godden (top goalscorer in league 1 season before)
Matty James (PL winner)
McFadz (season pro)
Moore (was first choice at Sheff Utd before their promotion)

I agree others like Rose were great find, my point is so much seems to be network through Adi and proven players and less from scouting team, most of which have been misses.

Agree though, they're done well to manage budget and work within constraints.
 

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