Waggot and SBITC (1 Viewer)

[dongonzalos]

Not at all. I had a chuckle when I read it earlier.

About 10 ten days ago my CCFC employed mate was telling me that the community branch got a little put out that suddenly Waggot was getting involved in things they normally do, taking it off them.

They asked him what was going on and he told them he was doing it to show the Council how the club can operate in the community.

I was expecting him just to use it as a bargaining tool in the boardroom , I didn't expect a full media piece on it.

So transparent

 

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[ashbyjan]

We would be more than happy to be involved in any real community scheme but ask us before assuming and publicising such an association

 

[skyblueman]

We would be more than happy to be involved in any real community scheme but ask us before assuming and publicising such an association

Don't hold your breath Jan I expect once the rent situation is sorted he will suddenly find himself mysteriously a bit too busy for these projects other than token gestures ....

Didn't think our illustrious leaders could embarrass the club any further than they already have.....

 

[Tonylinc]

This whole scenario tells you all you need to know about Sisu and the people that they employ.

 

[georgehudson]

whilst understanding these are all manoevres by sisu, i continue to be amazed that some people are taken in by the continued 'smoke & mirrors' approach

 

[cloughie]

whilst understanding these are all manoevres by sisu, i continue to be amazed that some people are taken in by the continued 'smoke & mirrors' approach

Yes but some johnney come lately's will always know better

they have supported the club for all of the last 5 years and maybe 1 as an adult

 

[georgehudson]

it begs the question as to why no-one has been down the route of 'real investigative journalism',
too many tame journo's perhaps

 

[Grendel]

it begs the question as to why no-one has been down the route of 'real investigative journalism',
too many tame journo's perhaps

To reveal what? The disgusting rental payments this club has been subjected to for nearly a decade?

 

[dongonzalos]

To reveal what? The disgusting rental payments this club has been subjected to for nearly a decade?

Who has trusted SISU with their money would do for me

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

To reveal what? The disgusting rental payments this club has been subjected to for nearly a decade?

What's disgusting? It was a contract entered into freely, and affordable until our incumbent owners steered us to the third tier of football.

Although higher than others, that's life. If you take a Mercedes on HP, then through your own stupidity lose your job and struggle with the payments, it's not 'disgusting' that you're monthly instalments are higher than for Jim's Kia down the road

 

[Grendel]

What's disgusting? It was a contract entered into freely, and affordable until our incumbent owners steered us to the third tier of football.

Although higher than others, that's life. If you take a Mercedes on HP, then through your own stupidity lose your job and struggle with the payments, it's not 'disgusting' that you're monthly instalments are higher than for Jim's Kia down the road

It is if you find the Mercedes has been charged at 500% above RRP.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It is if you find the Mercedes has been charged at 500% above RRP.

But it's at RRP. If that's five times the sticker price of the Kia, don't sign the contract

 

[oldskyblue58]

self inflicted wound though wasnt it ........ the lease was agreed between ACL and CCFC yes ........ but the people doing the signing/agreeing on both sides were directors of both companies, the likes of Mr McGinnity etc. Got to ask why if acting in the clubs best interest they set up such a deal, then why it has taken 5 years of loss making (£35m+ excluding rent costs)under SISU for them to even start addressing one of its major costs. There have been opportunities over the years from 2005 for the matter to be addressed and none of the Board or owners have until now. I find that pretty negligent. It isnt up to ACL to say "sorry chaps we think you are paying too much" they have a responsibility to their own business, that said i think we have a right to expect them to consider the mutual benefit of both businesses

There has been an opportunity for both businesses to work in partnership to mutual success but it seems to me that self interest, inept financial controls & planning plus a large dollop of ego have got in the way to create the current situation. The only people gaining right now are the lawyers, big boy accountants and insolvency consultants

Just to be clear people with fortunes only ever get smaller fortunes from running a football club ....... so why does a money driven hedge fund want to run one ? Just a means to an end perhaps ? Guess we have to wait see what happens next but I find it hard to believe current events are simply and primarily about what is best for CCFC.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What's disgusting? It was a contract entered into freely, and affordable until our incumbent owners steered us to the third tier of football.

Although higher than others, that's life. If you take a Mercedes on HP, then through your own stupidity lose your job and struggle with the payments, it's not 'disgusting' that you're monthly instalments are higher than for Jim's Kia down the road

Hardly freely, the club had a gun to its head. It was enter into the contract or be homeless.

 

[covcity4life]

In the article Waggott claims to have had dealings with the Sky Blue Trust and that we are founder members of his community charter. This is quite simply not true - we have had no discussions with the club on any such programme. Whilst we obviously support the sentiment behind the initiative its strange how its taken 5 years for SISU to remember the community and launch this at this opportune time. Hopefully the rest of the claims and statements in the piece are more accurate than his claims about the Trust.

stop causing trouble

 

[WestEndAgro]

Sisu do not want to run a football club, they want the arena and the land around it, we are a insignificant player in the overall scheme of things.

 

[ashbyjan]

Damn the council for selling Highfield Rd and then having to be bailed out by CCFC when it constantly mismanaged and ran out of money whilst building its stadium or have I got that the wrong way round?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Hardly freely, the club had a gun to its head. It was enter into the contract or be homeless.

No it didn't. It didn't have to leave Highfield Road. Run that one past me, can you?

 

[ashbyjan]

stop causing trouble

Sorry but if there is a blatant inaccuracy about an organisation that I am a representative of we should simply ignore it? That would be irresponsible to the Trust and its members, sorry if the truth is not of interest to you.

 

[fernandopartridge]

No it didn't. It didn't have to leave Highfield Road. Run that one past me, can you?

At the point of contract it didn't own Highfield Rd.

 

[valiant15]

Ignore the troll jan.

 

[covcity4life]

kkk valiant

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

At the point of contract it didn't own Highfield Rd.

And what about the gun to its head with regards selling Highfield Road. Explain that bit can you please?

 

[Grendel]

Damn the council for selling Highfield Rd and then having to be bailed out by CCFC when it constantly mismanaged and ran out of money whilst building its stadium or have I got that the wrong way round?

It does seen though that other council built projects where football clubs are tenants are far more lenient in the rent arrangements doesn't it?

 

[fernandopartridge]

And what about the gun to its head with regards selling Highfield Road. Explain that bit can you please?

What has that got to do with the current owners and their dispute?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Damn the council for selling Highfield Rd and then having to be bailed out by CCFC when it constantly mismanaged and ran out of money whilst building its stadium or have I got that the wrong way round?

The main thrust of the argument is something that was done way before SISU existed.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

What has that got to do with the current owners and their dispute?

They completed due diligence before buying the club, and in so doing accepted responsibility for the contracts and liabilities if the former owners. I mean, it's not like the rentals were a secret, is it.

So, that not really...

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The main thrust of the argument is something that was done way before SISU existed.

Good Lord. Has someone hijacked your account, with the ambition of making you look even more ignorant than normal?

 

[ashbyjan]

On the face of it the rent at £1.2 m does appear high but this was set in conjunction with the club when the decision was taken to finalise the stadium by taking out the loan from Yorkshire Bank, a loan that had to be taken out as yet again the club was not in a position to do so its self. As Fisher so unprofessionally revealed that loan costs ACL £1.6m a year so the clubs original rent doesn't even cover that cost. During the original negotiations over the rent ACL actually offered McGinnity a deal based on attendances but his response was no (it was actually a lot blunter and ruder).
The deal that is on the table is one that as a Trust we feel is fair to all parties. With ACL now making good profits from other parts of the operation it allows it to cover the clubs shortfall with meeting the mortgage payments and allows the club to operate at a fair rent considering the quality of the facilities offered. This will obviously go down to the wire as both sides play brinkmanship with OUR club. Hopefully sense will prevail and we can then just get back to the business of football and not finance.

 

[sky blue john]

It does seen though that other council built projects where football clubs are tenants are far more lenient in the rent arrangements doesn't it?

And your some sort of expert on this Grendel.
Please name some examples and the financial details. Or maybe it is because fisher says this is so ?

 

[Godiva]

The deal that is on the table is one that as a Trust we feel is fair to all parties. With ACL now making good profits from other parts of the operation it allows it to cover the clubs shortfall with meeting the mortgage payments and allows the club to operate at a fair rent considering the quality of the facilities offered. This will obviously go down to the wire as both sides play brinkmanship with OUR club. Hopefully sense will prevail and we can then just get back to the business of football and not finance.

But what if the reality is, that the club cannot afford to pay what is necessary for ACL to meet their mortgages?
Will the Trust then suggest the club lower the wage budget? Even if this eliminate the chance of keeping Goldie or get in a suitable replacement?

What is the Trusts stance on the rent backlog? Should it be paid in full, even if it means selling whatever player that can attract a fee?

I did start with 'what if' as nobody outside ccfc boardroom really know the reality, so please go within this scenario.

 

[cloughie]

But what if the reality is, that the club cannot afford to pay what is necessary for ACL to meet their mortgages?
Will the Trust then suggest the club lower the wage budget? Even if this eliminate the chance of keeping Goldie or get in a suitable replacement?

What is the Trusts stance on the rent backlog? Should it be paid in full, even if it means selling whatever player that can attract a fee?

I did start with 'what if' as nobody outside ccfc boardroom really know the reality, so please go within this scenario.

regarding the backlog of rent it has been publicised that can be payed over 10 years

 

[fernandopartridge]

They completed due diligence before buying the club, and in so doing accepted responsibility for the contracts and liabilities if the former owners. I mean, it's not like the rentals were a secret, is it.

So, that not really...

I'm not disputing that - it doesn't mean they can't now attempt to renegotiate the contract due to a change in circumstances. I think you live in some dream world where all negotiations are carried out with tea and sandwiches.

I don't think either side have conducted themselves particularly well, neither story stands up to any great scrutiny yet some, including you, would have it that it's all the fault of those nasty men from SISU.

 

[fernandopartridge]

On the face of it the rent at £1.2 m does appear high but this was set in conjunction with the club when the decision was taken to finalise the stadium by taking out the loan from Yorkshire Bank, a loan that had to be taken out as yet again the club was not in a position to do so its self. As Fisher so unprofessionally revealed that loan costs ACL £1.6m a year so the clubs original rent doesn't even cover that cost. During the original negotiations over the rent ACL actually offered McGinnity a deal based on attendances but his response was no (it was actually a lot blunter and ruder).
The deal that is on the table is one that as a Trust we feel is fair to all parties. With ACL now making good profits from other parts of the operation it allows it to cover the clubs shortfall with meeting the mortgage payments and allows the club to operate at a fair rent considering the quality of the facilities offered. This will obviously go down to the wire as both sides play brinkmanship with OUR club. Hopefully sense will prevail and we can then just get back to the business of football and not finance.

I thought ACL were a really viable business who wouldn't spend beyond their means

 

[sky blue john]

But what if the reality is, that the club cannot afford to pay what is necessary for ACL to meet their mortgages?
Will the Trust then suggest the club lower the wage budget? Even if this eliminate the chance of keeping Goldie or get in a suitable replacement?

What is the Trusts stance on the rent backlog? Should it be paid in full, even if it means selling whatever player that can attract a fee?

I did start with 'what if' as nobody outside ccfc boardroom really know the reality, so please go within this scenario.

why are the trust going to interfere and advise on the players budgets ?
Thats for the club to decide if they need to make cuts to pay the rent nothing to do with the trust.