SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
We will always remember and honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom.
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VE Day (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter SkyBlueDom26
- Start date
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
And some will seek to take advantage. If they don’t want to accept and live in and by our culture, fuck off.
Don’t plan to attack a significant celebration and memorial.
Eight men including seven Iranians arrested in two England anti-terrorism operations
Counter-terrorism police disrupt suspected plot amid concern over rise in Tehran-backed hostile activity
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep I did wonder what the arrests were related toAnd some will seek to take advantage. If they don’t want to accept and live in and by our culture, fuck off.
Don’t plan to attack a significant celebration and memorial.
Eight men including seven Iranians arrested in two England anti-terrorism operations
Counter-terrorism police disrupt suspected plot amid concern over rise in Tehran-backed hostile activitywww.theguardian.com
That’s gratitude for you eh?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I think I have said elsewhere that this biting the hand that feeds you (to use the vernacular and despite relatively small numbers involved - but that number can certainly cause some disproportionate death and injury. Can you imagine the headlines and pixelated pictures and videos of victims?
It isn’t all that surprising that there are then the right wing reactions that are so condemned on here, for example. And these security operations can’t be kept secret to avoid winding people up.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Perhaps just a few weeks before VE Day my great great uncle was killed as part of one of many failed attempts to capture Dunkirk which was one of the German holdouts bypassed as the Allies advanced. Seemingly random inexperienced units were sent against a battle hardened garrison resulting in needless deaths in the closing days of the war.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I always feel that those late actions in wars were deplorable. It may not have been quite as obvious that it was the closing days of WW2 as it had been for WW1. It woukd be interesting to know what strategic purpose capturing Dunkirk would have achieved, beyond it being for appearance sakes that is.I doubt they were intending it become a base for small boats to bring thousands over from the UK in small boats, although the reverse process seems to be operating effectively, albeit unopposed from land, sea or air.
Uhhh yeah actually I do disagree
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Not really. Writing off whole generations is weird.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Do we know how much it’s normal people radicalising once here vs Iran sending people specifically? Iran is very tight on ex pats having spoken to some. This seems more like traditional geopolitics than the usual lone wolf self radicalising dickhead we normally see.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Fuck off. Jesus won’t be long before we’ve got Hitler did nothing wrong posts from the right. Outright wishing we lost WW2 is it?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t be a problem if they weren’t here. I also wondered if there could have been some Russian influence at play. Whatever the motivation, if there were to be an anti Iranian response it shouldn’t necessarily come as a surprise to anyone but the lefties.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Allowing the Holocaust to be completed is preferable how, exactly?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
At least we wouldn’t have seen gays and lefties and academics being free to be themselves. It’s like Hitler won!
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Don’t be fucking stupid. Surely even you can’t think the cenotaph surrounded by plastic fencing is a good look. I would prefer a number of SAS located strategically to provide protection.
The war was won but the battle was lost. Created the conditions for multiple countries to pursue and achieve independence despite not having the wherewithal to support that status: including the UK in effect.
Add the development of the USSR and its increasing post war influence.
There are bad apples here, some arrived as such and some may have been radicalised. Does radicalisation lead to grooming gangs? Or is that just behaviour of bad apples who have no respect for host culture and laws? If groups of white men did the same in, say Saudi Arabia, there would be multiple appeals being run in UK media in support of clemency and commuting of their death sentences. So many people seem to not be prepared to respect our laws and customs. If they can’t, they should either not come here in the first place or be fucked off elsewhere. May be some self policing would help.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Is this now an argument that we shouldn’t have opposed Hitler and that we should have kept the empire going?
ccfctommy
Well-Known Member
groups of white men do that over here!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Who exactly are you complaining about? You want to remove all foreigners because of grooming gangs? What is it you’re asking for? The last people to desecrate the centotaph were EDL supporters. Are they not prepared to respect our customs?
It’s just racist ranting at this point.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Clearly not but there is a certain irony that we as the West sold ourselves to another Lucifer to achieve victory
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I don’t think we as the West really had a choice in the circumstances. Churchill did of course float ‘Operation Unthinkable’ in the immediate aftermath of the war to invade Soviet-occupied Poland.
Regardless that’s nothing to do with Malc’s post.
It’s a hotly contested field, but arguing that not only did we not win WW2, but we shouldn’t have even tried to do so, may be the most unhinged shit on this entire forum. Lord knows what your social media diet is, but I would recommend a detox.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
How patriotic of him.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Can you explain a little more about the development of the USSR and its post war influence?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Why should being free to be yourself be limited to gays, lefties and academics?
it would have been contradictory to have opposed Hitler whilst maintaining the empire , so no it isn’t.
That doesn’t mean that the end of either was handled particularly well. The pragmatism of exhaustion intervened along with the surprise election of a Labour government.
in terms of independence , many of the nations seeking it were understandably impatient and hence protest movements were active in drawing the worlds population to their “plight”. The question is were they really ready for independence? Mature enough politically and / or economically to successfully manage the issues of the day and the future? Was the Labour government of the day overly accommodating?
The continued sabre rattling between India and Pakistan would suggest not politically mature enough in terms of Partition. The development of successful space and nuclear weapons programmes whilst still receiving foreign aid would suggest a more positive answer to that question. Possibly with collusion from UK governments over the years. Fuck it, let’s say probably as we are in hypothetical territory.
How well were the consequences of the creation of the Israeli state thought through, or was that more evidence of international acquiescence?
A Churchill quote will suffice as a start.
"From what I have seen of our Russian friends and Allies during the war, I am convinced that there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness. For that reason the old doctrine of a balance of power is unsound. We cannot afford, if we can help it, to work on narrow margins, offering temptations to a trial of strength. If the Western Democracies stand together in strict adherence to the principles of the United Nations charter, their influence for furthering these principles will be immense and no one is likely to molest them. If however they become divided or falter in their duty and if these all-important years are allowed to slip away then indeed catastrophe may overwhelm us all"
They didn't give up the territory of other countries that they had liberated from Germany, whose peoples basically continued to live in occupied territories under the rule of an alien country, government and country. Stalin was not all that much "better" than Hitler. Hitler wanted Liebersraum, Stalin wanted a military buffer but also got the benefits of access to industry and resources that Hitler would have got for Germany. Those seeking independence from the Soviet shackles found life could get quite unpleasant, often terminally so. Exchanged one dictator for another USSR less overt than Hitler in that jostled, at relatively low cost, for influence with poorer nations, having little or no need to pursue acquisition of additional territory having ended up with quite a lot in 1945.
Churchill's quote seems to remain relevant today.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The sitting President of the USA has done more to divide the West than any Russian could have dreamed.
duffer
Well-Known Member
If you've got a problem with the Iranian state, that's one thing.
If you think blaming all Iranians for the actions of a tiny number is acceptable, then you're a racist idiot. Which is it?
Now I'm not saying you are a racist idiot, but let's be fair, the right wing does have more than its fair share of them, so it wouldn't necessarily come as a surprise if someone banging on about lefties turned out to be one.
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MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Why should being free to be yourself be limited to gays, lefties and academics?
it would have been contradictory to have opposed Hitler whilst maintaining the empire , so no it isn’t.
That doesn’t mean that the end of either was handled particularly well. The pragmatism of exhaustion intervened along with the surprise election of a Labour government.
in terms of independence , many of the nations seeking it were understandably impatient and hence protest movements were active in drawing the worlds population to their “plight”. The question is were they really ready for independence? Mature enough politically and / or economically to successfully manage the issues of the day and the future? Was the Labour government of the day overly accommodating?
The continued sabre rattling between India and Pakistan would suggest not politically mature enough in terms of Partition. The development of successful space and nuclear weapons programmes whilst still receiving foreign aid would suggest a more positive answer to that question. Possibly with collusion from UK governments over the years. Fuck it, let’s say probably as we are in hypothetical territory.
How well were the consequences of the creation of the Israeli state thought through, or was that more evidence of international acquiescence?
A Churchill quote will suffice.
"From what I have seen of our Russian friends and Allies during the war, I am convinced that there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness. For that reason the old doctrine of a balance of power is unsound. We cannot afford, if we can help it, to work on narrow margins, offering temptations to a trial of strength. If the Western Democracies stand together in strict adherence to the principles of the United Nations charter, their influence for furthering these principles will be immense and no one is likely to molest them. If however they become divided or falter in their duty and if these all-important years are allowed to slip away then indeed catastrophe may overwhelm us all"
They didn't give up the territory of other countries that they had liberated from Germany, who basically continued to live in occupied territories under the rule of an alien country, government and country. Stalin was not all that much "better" than Hitler. Hitler wanted Liebersraum, Stalin wanted a military buffer but also got the benefits of access to industry and resources that Hitler would have got for Germany.
The plastic fencing is nothing to do David Mitchell playing a comedy German. It is representative of the world as it is following all that bloodshed.At this point it is more to do with non comic Iranians. Which is possibly most of them?When I have to put up some plastic fencing around a war memorial
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I shouldn't be surprised that I am not entitled to bang on about left wingers when it seems perfectly acceptable to left wingers to bang on about right wingers. The left wing has its share of brainwash idiots who simply seem unable to consider any alternative view of the world than their own. There needs to be an accommodation reached which will necessaetiae both left and right actually listening to each other and seriously considering the other view. The left wing clearly feels extremely let down by the government they have elected. That's one disappointment I am not having to suffer. I am probably getting pretty much the shite I was expecting when I realised that Starmer would be PM. TBF its worse, I hadn't expected the Winter Fuel Allowance betrayal.
It would help if people actually read and considered what I have actually written other than doing the mindless, brainwashed knee jerk.
reaction. I have suggested that the uneducated right, as they have been described by shmmeee multiple times, may react in a racist fashion by plots by johnny foreigners. IThat would be blaming all Iranians and possibly all muslims for such things and it may well not be entirely reasonable. It is, however, an explanation that is possibly as valid as anything the bleeding heart left wing can come up with - reasons which are themselves adversarial and unlikely to contribute to community harmony. (The "they are thick, uneducated, easily led, convinced by rhetoric" rationale).
I personally am neither thick nor ill educated. Is rhetoric such a bad thing unless viewed through a particular prism?
Definition of Rhetoric - the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the exploitation of figures of speech and other compositional techniques. Is the left's objection to rhetoric based in the fact that none of the senior members of the Labour party, and hence the government, have a microgram of persuasiveness themselves?
Is it OK if I have a problem with the Israeli state? I am not anti semitic but I am most probably anti Zionist. The hostage taking was appalling but there comes a point where a state has to be "bigger" and more considered than a terrorist organisation.They have taken retribution too far and are now creating conditions wherein atrocities to proliferate. Probably understandably 80 years ago, Israels's swore they would never be put in the same position again and , over the intervening years, do seem to have acted in accordance with that assertion. Little to no concern for anyone else, over learnt and over applied lessons from a nightmare.
Now wanting to control distribution of relief aid in Gaza. Fuck off Israeli government..
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Probably most sensible option5 seconds after trying SBT off-topic chat again.
