update on odds and ends off the pitch (1 Viewer)

[Captain Dart]

There was an options appraisal on the councils website which discusses the merits of the two sites (which shows who really chose the location). I can't find it now mind you.

A discussion on options for political reasons & reality, not necessarily the same thing ;-)

 

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[oldfiver]

I wouldn't have thought so, I think that an embargo or points deduction only relates to filing the accounts

The Annual return lists the registered office, the company secretary, the directors and the shareholders. It is just a simple information type form with a £13 fee I don't see really why it hasn't been filed. I am assuming it is an oversight on the part of the club, (failing that there is something in the directors or shares they are not ready for everyone to see). However non filing is an offence and could result in the following

Companies House will remind you that it is a criminal offence not to deliver the annual return on time and that the company and its directors could be prosecuted. This could mean the directors have a criminal record and also a £5,000 fine for each document not filed on time.

Companies House will not impose a penalty (unlike the late filing of accounts). Companies House will send increasingly threatening letters warning of removing the company from the register.

Ultimately the company will be removed from the register and if you want to keep the company you will have to pay a fee to have it restored.

It is filed just not online yet - so try and be less negative and more charitable!

 

[oldskyblue58]

It is filed just not online yet - so try and be less negative and more charitable!

you would know that because ? :thinking about: Can I suggest that the club file it online in future, very simple process and it is on the Companies House website in hours. Saves unnecessary questions and speculation

"I am assuming it is an oversight on the part of the club," is being charitable for a club that has a regular history of filing things late.

Wasn't a case of being negative, only factual which is precisely why I put the first sentence in the OP

 

[James Smith]

It still got us out of pay extortionate levels of rent to ACL

True but cost us the chance to own ACL as well.

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[Grendel]

True but cost us the chance to own ACL as well.

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Hell would freeze over before that chance came.

 

[Astute]

Hell would freeze over before that chance came.

But they pulled out when everything was agreed. Are you saying that they did the right thing to choose litigation over paying? Because they have wasted millions since and now we are one step from being homeless. At least Fisher has kept his gob shut lately. Something to do with TM?

 

[skybluetony176]

Hell would freeze over before that chance came.

Yeah and SISU had moved on blah blah blah!

 

[Grendel]

But they pulled out when everything was agreed. Are you saying that they did the right thing to choose litigation over paying? Because they have wasted millions since and now we are one step from being homeless. At least Fisher has kept his gob shut lately. Something to do with TM?

I agree with NW that without the action it's unlikely the club would still exist.

 

[ccfcway]

Yeah and SISU had moved on blah blah blah!

and the new stadium is coming....

 

[Grendel]

Yeah and SISU had moved on blah blah blah!

And ACL are profitable

CCFC only accounts for 10% of the turnover

We need to build bridges before looking at potentially selling ACL to ccfc

Blah blah blah

 

[skybluetony176]

And ACL are profitable

CCFC only accounts for 10% of the turnover

We need to build bridges before looking at potentially selling ACL to ccfc

Blah blah blah

We've narrowed it down to two sites

Exciting announcement coming in the new year

We have an option for a further two years

SISU's investors won't deal with CCC Blah blah blah.

My personal favourite. SISU lost the JR on purpose. Wait SISU didn't say that one. Who did :thinking about:

 

[Grendel]

We've narrowed it down to two sites

Exciting announcement coming in the new year

We have an option for a further two years

SISU's investors won't deal with CCC Blah blah blah.

My personal favourite. SISU lost the JR on purpose. Wait SISU didn't say that one. Who did :thinking about:

I did. Actually I didn't. What I said was there was zero chance of success. So they went in knowing they would lose and the victory was to gain the right of appeal.

They couldn't win - the non payment of rent would mean that and legal advice would have told them that as well.

It was actually a brilliant strategy and worked. What they hadn't reckoned on was how little the council valued the club in its community and would sell its shirt to get anyone else in but them. The council out hedge funded the hedge fund in the morality stakes.

They should have done it the minute they walked through the door but we're seduced by ransons baloney that he would earn the investors millions by signing Steven Wright Freddie Eastwood Guillame Beuzilin Carl Baker and get the wonderful Chris Coleman to manage them, thorn to scout and Steve Keane to coach. The premier league was in the bag.

 

[skybluetony176]

I did. Actually I didn't. What I said was there was zero chance of success. So they went in knowing they would lose and the victory was to gain the right of appeal.

They couldn't win - the non payment of rent would mean that and legal advice would have told them that as well.

It was actually a brilliant strategy and worked. What they hadn't reckoned on was how little the council valued the club in its community and would sell its shirt to get anyone else in but them. The council out hedge funded the hedge fund in the morality stakes.

They should have done it the minute they walked through the door but we're seduced by ransons baloney that he would earn the investors millions by signing Steven Wright Freddie Eastwood Guillame Beuzilin Carl Baker and get the wonderful Chris Coleman to manage them, thorn to scout and Steve Keane to coach. The premier league was in the bag.

You should have just admitted that you said they lost on purpose. It would have made you look less ridiculous than you do by posting what you did instead.

 

[Grendel]

You should have just admitted that you said they lost on purpose. It would have made you look less ridiculous than you do by posting what you did instead.

They did so they could get the appeal. They couldn't win. What would victory have got them?

 

[skybluetony176]

They did so they could get the appeal. They couldn't win. What would victory have got them?

Same as winning the right to appeal. Nothing.

Wasps were clearly waiting in the wings. Whatever the outcome unless SISU were willing to stop playing silly buggers and do things the right way it was always going to end up in Wasps hands. Guess what happened next?

SISU are the only show in town blah blah blah. Another good one. Who said that again :thinking about:

 

[Grendel]

Same as winning the right to appeal. Nothing.

Wasps were clearly waiting in the wings. Whatever the outcome unless SISU were willing to stop playing silly buggers and do things the right way it was always going to end up in Wasps hands. Guess what happened next?

SISU are the only show in town blah blah blah. Another good one. Who said that again :thinking about:

Wasps weren't clearly waiting in the wings according to Lucas were they? When I said Richardson was conniving to own the stadium prior to buying wasps you rubbished the idea and defended Lucas that the deal was only discussed in July before purchase. What an odd thing for you to say.

There is no doubt the victory in the JR was the right of appeal in my view. The history of sisu is that they lose many court cases but that they are prepared to go the long haul with their opponents. This is no secret and the council would have been aware when they were the preferred bidder.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wasps weren't clearly waiting in the wings according to Lucas were they? When I said Richardson was conniving to own the stadium prior to buying wasps you rubbished the idea and defended Lucas that the deal was only discussed in July before purchase. What an odd thing for you to say.

There is no doubt the victory in the JR was the right of appeal in my view. The history of sisu is that they lose many court cases but that they are prepared to go the long haul with their opponents. This is no secret and the council would have been aware when they were the preferred bidder.

Did I? I think you've just invented that?

If a certain story is to be believed on here certain SISU employees were showing fans in meetings the wasps prospectus before the JR. If that's true then they certainly were waiting in the wings and not only that SISU knew and still went ahead with the JR you say they knew they couldn't win. Not exactly a combination that's going to succeed in delivering control of ACL and the Ricoh if true.

 

[Grendel]

Did I? I think you've just invented that?

If a certain story is to be believed on here certain SISU employees were showing fans in meetings the wasps prospectus before the JR. If that's true then they certainly were waiting in the wings and not only that SISU knew and still went ahead with the JR you say they knew they couldn't win. Not exactly a combination that's going to succeed in delivering control of ACL and the Ricoh if true.

So you agree that the council lied regarding the timing of wasps interest - how very strange.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you agree that the council lied regarding the timing of wasps interest - how very strange.

Why is it strange? It's become blatantly obvious that there had been contact prior to when it was initially suggested by CCC representatives. What depth those discussions went to is what's unclear, not that they hadn't taken place.

 

[Grendel]

Why is it strange? It's become blatantly obvious that there had been contact prior to when it was initially suggested by CCC representatives. What depth those discussions went to is what's unclear, not that they hadn't taken place.

Yet you went out of your way to rubbish the blogs of respected wasps fans when they suggested the same didn't you? Or was that one of the other members of the Hill Billy Gang?

 

[skybluetony176]

Yet you went out of your way to rubbish the blogs of respected wasps fans when they suggested the same didn't you? Or was that one of the other members of the Hill Billy Gang?

By saying it's an opinion piece? It was an opinion piece. You didn't like it because I pointed out that there was no factual evidence in it which there wasn't. I also said (something that you fail to mention) that for all we know he could be 100% correct but as there's no submitted evidence to back anything up it could equally be 100% incorrect. Exactly why it's an opinion piece.

I also asked you at the time and I don't recall if you ever answered "do you believe it yourself to be factual or do you just want other people to believe it's factual?"

 

[Astute]

I agree with NW that without the action it's unlikely the club would still exist.

But how could wasting millions and having nothing to show for it had saved us and paying just a bit more to secure a ground have finished us when they will have to pay many millions more to do the same still?

 

[skybluetony176]

But how could wasting millions and having nothing to show for it had saved us and paying just a bit more to secure a ground have finished us when they will have to pay many millions more to do the same still?

I'm sure the money SISU have spent to gain nothing could have been spent much wiser.

 

[Astute]

They did so they could get the appeal. They couldn't win. What would victory have got them?

You did say that they planned to lose the JR. I thought that they didn't think that CCC would contest the JR and would hand it over to them. As in Joy saying it was worthless and wanting it without outstanding loans. Then there was the threat of suing councillors when they won the JR.

 

[Grendel]

You did say that they planned to lose the JR. I thought that they didn't think that CCC would contest the JR and would hand it over to them. As in Joy saying it was worthless and wanting it without outstanding loans. Then there was the threat of suing councillors when they won the JR.

Of course they would contest it. Why wouldn't they - they couldn't lose. Admittance would have been political suicide.

 

[Grendel]

I'm sure the money SISU have spent to gain nothing could have been spent much wiser.

I don't know the cost of legal bills that have been incurred so cannot give an opinion

 

[Grendel]

By saying it's an opinion piece? It was an opinion piece. You didn't like it because I pointed out that there was no factual evidence in it which there wasn't. I also said (something that you fail to mention) that for all we know he could be 100% correct but as there's no submitted evidence to back anything up it could equally be 100% incorrect. Exactly why it's an opinion piece.

I also asked you at the time and I don't recall if you ever answered "do you believe it yourself to be factual or do you just want other people to believe it's factual?"

I believe it is factual yes.

 

[Astute]

I don't know the cost of legal bills that have been incurred so cannot give an opinion

It is about 1m just to wind up CCFC LTD. That got them out of the rental agreement that put pressure to sell on CCC. Then you have the JR. They had a legal team of 8 IIRC. All on a lot of money every day. How about all of the paperwork? Too much to carry by hand. Then you have the compensation they had to pay. Like I said earlier in the millions.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't know the cost of legal bills that have been incurred so cannot give an opinion

We know CCC's. I doubt SISU's is less and I doubt you do either. Not withstanding SISU are also picking up CCC's tab.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is about 1m just to wind up CCFC LTD. That got them out of the rental agreement that put pressure to sell on CCC. Then you have the JR. They had a legal team of 8 IIRC. All on a lot of money every day. How about all of the paperwork? Too much to carry by hand. Then you have the compensation they had to pay. Like I said earlier in the millions.

Then there's the never to be really known cost of ongoing losses by moving to Northampton.

 

[James Smith]

OK, OK...

I don't think that, although it's not really their fault.

Firstly, they were always up front (or at least Dave Nellist, who had the casting vote was) about the project being about urban regeneration first, football club second. That was why the ground was built, not because it would help a football club.

One could surmise that's where and how Robinson could have sold the idea in the first place, too... but we fall into speculation there.

The problem with urban (re)generation is that central government expects such things to pay their way. That hampers the local government, forces them to put in place ridiculous deals that aren't to the benefit of the club in community, but are about the balance sheet. I can, incidentally, believe that certain elements of the council signed off the build with the best of intentions, but central government dictats would always stymie any effort. Those elements also signed off with a lot better intentions than the club board, which was all about a stay of execution, and therefore positioned the Ricoh or bust as sole strategy, conveniently forgetting they held the option to buy back Highfield Road, and conveniently forgetting that while the club held rights over the site, the club could always be passed on for someone elseto pick up the baton. That, of course, didn't suit the agenda of the board at the time.

Now urban regeneration is all very well, but it doesn't always take into account the needs of a club. The gasworks site probably not the best site available in truth (Parkside as mentioned) but did suit a political aim too. Club, as ever, comes second.

Of course at the time, public opinion was very much for the Ricoh being built, so for the vote to be as close as it was certainly suggests that it wasn't built just for cheap votes. The vote was hoever close as much because of misgivings (probably fair, too) about the cost to the public purse - hence the commitments to regeneration at the last minute, hence ridiculous deals.

If we go back to then, then CCC certainly come out of that better than the football club's board in terms of motivation, but it';s still arguable that the club was first on their priorities. And, like it or not, to gain that the other options were marginilised in order to make it seem like it was Ricoh or bust.

When it wasn't.

Wasn't the train station a condition of planning permission?

 

[skybluetony176]

I believe it is factual yes.

Fair play. I remain sceptical until something factual comes out to back it up.

 

[James Smith]

Hell would freeze over before that chance came.

At the very beginning before Sisu had pissed off the Higgs and ACL we could have done so but we didn't. Igwe along with Ranson had a different plan for the club and we are where we are, homeless!

 

[NorthernWisdom]

At the very beginning before Sisu had pissed off the Higgs and ACL we could have done so but we didn't. Igwe along with Ranson had a different plan for the club and we are where we are, homeless!

I don't think we could have bought the council share of ACL tbf, that always seemed out of any deal.

Also... nobody thought ACL worth buying as originally constituted, which suggests any interested parties who didn't pursue the Higgs option to conclusion were probably... right not to.

What probably should have been done as use the goodwill on arrival to push for a better deal to own the ground but... why would our owners have done that for any more magnanimous reasons on arrival than now?!? They'd still have been the same owners with the same motivations, just ith public opinion on their side rather than against.

 

[wingy]

It is about 1m just to wind up CCFC LTD. That got them out of the rental agreement that put pressure to sell on CCC. Then you have the JR. They had a legal team of 8 IIRC. All on a lot of money every day. How about all of the paperwork? Too much to carry by hand. Then you have the compensation they had to pay. Like I said earlier in the millions.

Plus the receipts from the sales of Clarke and Wilson to mitigate against equity Investment, likely to have Bern £3.5M +
However I agree with Grendel that they not necessarily wanted to lose the JR but we're prepared to.