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  • Thread starter larry_david
  • Start date Aug 23, 2020
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #386
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Appearances at lower league doesn’t equate to better than top prospect at a premier league club and England set up.

At 18 Jones had made more league appearances than Bellingham has - doesn’t mean he’s better
Click to expand...

HA HA HA, the comparison you made was about today, not their potential years ago. Allasani was released by Palace before he had an injury. He might have fleetingly been a prospect at 16 but that's it. Jones on the other hand as stated above was playing league football at 17.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #387
fernandopartridge said:
HA HA HA, the comparison you made was about today, not their potential years ago. Allasani was released by Palace before he had an injury. He might have fleetingly been a prospect at 16 but that's it. Jones on the other hand as stated above was playing league football at 17.
Click to expand...

My quote was
“ The best comparison is Reiss Allasani. Had all the talent at palace, one big injury later he’s dropped to Dulwich Hamlet. ”

That suggests that I was saying that one big injury could in fact be the one thing that stops you making it.

He did have all talent, top prospect etc, then he had a big injury and is now non league.

And league football at 17 - he was playing at a cash strapped side at the bottom of league 2
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #388
fernandopartridge said:
HA HA HA, the comparison you made was about today, not their potential years ago. Allasani was released by Palace before he had an injury. He might have fleetingly been a prospect at 16 but that's it. Jones on the other hand as stated above was playing league football at 17.
Click to expand...

Adam Barton was seen as a huge prospect before his back injury wasn’t he? In the end he was dire. Even Savage was in the Man U youth team it means nothing in the end
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #389
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
My quote was
“ The best comparison is Reiss Allasani. Had all the talent at palace, one big injury later he’s dropped to Dulwich Hamlet. ”

That suggests that I was saying that one big injury could in fact be the one thing that stops you making it.

He did have all talent, top prospect etc, then he had a big injury and is now non league.

And league football at 17 - he was playing at a cash strapped side at the bottom of league 2
Click to expand...

Christ. Once again, Palace released Allasani before the big injury, it is completely false to state that the big injury is why he didn't make it, clearly Palace didn't rate his prospects.

The club's financial status does not have any affect on the standard of the league they're competing in.

This is my last post on the subject now.
 

better days

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #390
There was a done deal to sell Jones to Leeds when he was 20
The injury scuppered it
Leeds have the same recruitment team now as they had then so you assume you know what they're doing as they are now a Premier League team
Fingers crossed the lad can now have a long run free of injury and shows what he can do at Championship level
 
Reactions: Danceswithhorses, shmmeee, Skyblueweeman and 4 others

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #391
Grendel said:
Allassani hadnt even played league football until 22 - Jones was a regular at 18
Click to expand...

Allassani came through the ranks at Premier League Crystal Palace and played for England at schoolboy levels before illness and injuries prevented him breaking through or even getting games on loan. He had glandular fever which knocks the hell out of people in general, let alone those trying to become professional sportsmen.

Jones came through at League 2 Dagenham after failing to impress either Arsenal or West Ham. And in his first season as a first team regular Dagenham got relegated to non-league (although we had him on loan for the past few months but their fate looked pretty certain by then anyway)

I think you can see a fair few reasons why there's differences between them.
 

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #392
Grendel said:
Adam Barton was seen as a huge prospect before his back injury wasn’t he? In the end he was dire. Even Savage was in the Man U youth team it means nothing in the end
Click to expand...
Could be wrong but think it was a triple leg break wasn't it? I'm sure I remember reading people say it was one of the most horrendous breaks in football.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #393
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Allassani came through the ranks at Premier League Crystal Palace and played for England at schoolboy levels before illness and injuries prevented him breaking through or even getting games on loan. He had glandular fever which knocks the hell out of people in general, let alone those trying to become professional sportsmen.

Jones came through at League 2 Dagenham after failing to impress either Arsenal or West Ham. And in his first season as a first team regular Dagenham got relegated to non-league (although we had him on loan for the past few months but their fate looked pretty certain by then anyway)

I think you can see a fair few reasons why there's differences between them.
Click to expand...

Marcus hall was captain of England under 21 and a regular premier league player at 19
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #394
Grendel said:
Marcus hall was captain of England under 21 and a regular premier league player at 19
Click to expand...

So how does that support your argument of pointing out Allassani hadn't played a league game by 22 but Jones was a regular at 18?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #395
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So how does that support your argument of pointing out Allassani hadn't played a league game by 22 but Jones was a regular at 18?
Click to expand...

It proves that someone whose better than an England schoolboy international in terms of credibility at 19 isn’t going to be a sensation. Keep digging.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #396
Grendel said:
It proves that someone whose better than an England schoolboy international in terms of credibility at 19 isn’t going to be a sensation. Keep digging.
Click to expand...

It also proves that someone playing regularly as a teenager won't necessarily end up being great.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #397
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It also proves that someone playing regularly as a teenager won't necessarily end up being great.
Click to expand...
Jones is at a Championship club. Where is Allasani?
 
Reactions: Grendel

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #398
fernandopartridge said:
Jones is at a Championship club. Where is Allasani?
Click to expand...

So? How many Championship games has he played? Two seasons he's played a decent amount of games he got relegated both times from L2 and L1. At best he's unproven.
 

SeaSeeEffCee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #399
Doesn’t half feel like some of our fans want Jones to fail so they can tell us all they told us so
 
Reactions: JimmyHillsbeard, Sky Blue Pete, shmmeee and 2 others

NortonSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #400
SeaSeeEffCee said:
Doesn’t half feel like some of our fans want Jones to fail so they can tell us all they told us so
Click to expand...
And I would like him to succeed because he is a quality player who has improved us as a team this season. Oh and I would like him to succeed so I can say I told them so.
 
Reactions: better days

Cobi Jones's Dreads

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #401
fernandopartridge said:
Jones is at a Championship club. Where is Allasani?
Click to expand...

Still training with us from the clips I've seen online, guess we are doing him a favour to keep fit to find a new club.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #402
SeaSeeEffCee said:
Doesn’t half feel like some of our fans want Jones to fail so they can tell us all they told us so
Click to expand...
Nobody wants him to fail. The guy who posted on twitter doesn’t want him to fail.

The question is whether we think he will succeed. Ultimately he has 1 year on his contract.

The likelyhood is he won’t be here next season. If he doesn’t get over his injury for consistent performances, we’ll release him. If he’s good - he’ll sign for a bigger club
 
Reactions: DavidMCov92

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #403
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Nobody wants him to fail. The guy who posted on twitter doesn’t want him to fail.
Click to expand...
I disagree. His response to the goal in a pre-season friendly was all 'It's just a preseason game, come back to me in 12 months when he's done it in the league.' - If he didn't want him to fail he could easily have just gone with 'Great goal, I'm really happy for him, let's hope he continues.' His immediate response was to turn back to negativity.
 

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #404
I do hope we are not comparing Jones to Allesanni here
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #405
cc84cov said:
I do hope we are not comparing Jones to Allesanni here
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose we could chat great pre-season goals, and what happened afterwards
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #406
GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
I disagree. His response to the goal in a pre-season friendly was all 'It's just a preseason game, come back to me in 12 months when he's done it in the league.' - If he didn't want him to fail he could easily have just gone with 'Great goal, I'm really happy for him, let's hope he continues.' His immediate response was to turn back to negativity.
Click to expand...
He was right though, everyone made out that Jones has already proven him wrong. He’ll only be proven wrong when Jones is consistently performing in the championship.
 
Reactions: DavidMCov92
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #407
fernandopartridge said:
It is laughable on the basis that Jones as it stands has played league football for 5 years at this point and made over 100 appearances despite being injured for most of the last 2.5 getting on for 3 years.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the primary point of the post. I don't believe HDW was making reference to how good each other are as it stands. I think his point was more centred around the all too frequent occurrence of young bright talents having their careers hindered due to injury woes - and that this could still well happen to Jones as how he fares this season is entirely speculative. (Hopefully not though).

It may not have been the best comparison admittedly but I still don't think it qualifies as laughable, as it's not totally ridiculous to suggest that Jones' and Allassani's careers could end up mirroring each other. The beginning of their careers showed that both players were packed with promise and equally, both could well be forced to drop down the football pyramid as a result of their injury troubles (again depending on how Jones fares). Obviously hoping this doesn't happen with Jones but you simply cannot rule it out as a possibility yet. The whole discussion is entirely hypothetical anyway. Plus it's futile as I personally think Jones could actually surprise a few this season.
 
Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
Reactions: HuckerbyDublinWhelan and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

better days

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #408
Cobi Jones's Dreads said:
Still training with us from the clips I've seen online, guess we are doing him a favour to keep fit to find a new club.
Click to expand...
There's an agreement with the PFA that an injured player stays with a club for treatment until he's recovered even if his contract has expired
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #409
SeaSeeEffCee said:
Doesn’t half feel like some of our fans want Jones to fail so they can tell us all they told us so
Click to expand...

I want him to be successful. If he is likelihood is we'll do well.

It just seems that people are determined to make him out as a shoe-in to be effective in the Championship based on a good couple of months at the start of the L2 season before his injuries.

He's hardly played since, has had two major knee injuries which for a winger/tricky player that is likely to be targeted by opposition defenders is a worry and he's now going to be playing two levels higher than when he had that fantastic spell.

There's no guarantee he'll take the Championship by storm. He MIGHT, but it's not something that can be assumed by any means. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and HuckerbyDublinWhelan

SeaSeeEffCee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2020
  • #410
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I want him to be successful. If he is likelihood is we'll do well.

It just seems that people are determined to make him out as a shoe-in to be effective in the Championship based on a good couple of months at the start of the L2 season before his injuries.

He's hardly played since, has had two major knee injuries which for a winger/tricky player that is likely to be targeted by opposition defenders is a worry and he's now going to be playing two levels higher than when he had that fantastic spell.

There's no guarantee he'll take the Championship by storm. He MIGHT, but it's not something that can be assumed by any means. We'll just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I understand that. Personally I think he’ll struggle to make the step up after so long out, but I really hope he does. I’m more talking about the sneering manner in which some seem to speak about him which really give you the sense that they’re waiting for him to fail.
 
Reactions: MAFF and hill83

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2020
  • #411
SeaSeeEffCee said:
Yeah, I understand that. Personally I think he’ll struggle to make the step up after so long out, but I really hope he does. I’m more talking about the sneering manner in which some seem to speak about him which really give you the sense that they’re waiting for him to fail.
Click to expand...

There is an element of that at times. Like with that tweet it wasn't so much the questioning of whether Jones was good enough, as a lot of this board is about giving opinions on player ability, it was more the tone in which it was written which came across as quite nasty.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Aug 28, 2020
  • #412
DavidMCov92 said:
This place is an absolute cess pit. People accusing me of making fake twitter accounts to tweet about JJ madness .
For what it’s worth I thought the reply from the admin was class...and the abuse I’ve got on twitter or here doesn’t bother me in the slightest, not everyone in life are going to like you are they? Is what it is.

David O’Day - give me a shout on Facebook or twitter mate seen you said we worked together?

I won’t be responding to anything else on here as I only made an account to comment on this a couple of days ago.

take care lads, all the best #PUSB
Click to expand...

If you think this place is a cess pit (sic), you should see Twitter.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 2, 2020
  • #413
Had no idea Tony Montana aka Jack hickman had signed for bolton lol... Good luck to him that's some turnaround in what... A year
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

larry_david

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 2, 2020
  • #414
He'll prob go onto bigger and better things as well. Always had hopes for him until that moment
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 2, 2020
  • #415
larry_david said:
He'll prob go onto bigger and better things as well. Always had hopes for him until that moment
Click to expand...

Somewhat ironic that we actually need a RB/RWB right now too.
 

larry_david

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 2, 2020
  • #416
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Somewhat ironic that we actually need a RB/RWB right now too.
Click to expand...
Yep. Could have been in with a shout but we'll see. If he storms league 2 and moves up the ladder, fair play. I think we've progressed to a higher level now. Haven't seen Rowe play but heard good things last season until he got a long term injury.
 

cooperskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 2, 2020
  • #417
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Nobody wants him to fail. The guy who posted on twitter doesn’t want him to fail.

The question is whether we think he will succeed. Ultimately he has 1 year on his contract.

The likelyhood is he won’t be here next season. If he doesn’t get over his injury for consistent performances, we’ll release him. If he’s good - he’ll sign for a bigger club
Click to expand...

I disagree I think he will be here next year, if he plays well up to Christmas I would be flabbergasted if we didn't sign him to a longer 2 year deal or something.
The club showed loyalty to him by giving him this year after 2 injuries and I think Jodi would want to stay given the opportunity to sign a longer deal.
 

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 2, 2020
  • #418
cooperskyblue said:
I disagree I think he will be here next year, if he plays well up to Christmas I would be flabbergasted if we didn't sign him to a longer 2 year deal or something.
The club showed loyalty to him by giving him this year after 2 injuries and I think Jodi would want to stay given the opportunity to sign a longer deal.
Click to expand...
Agree with this
 
D

DavidMCov92

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #419
Hello,
I take no enjoyment whatsoever in the injury and my thoughts and prayers are with Jodi but I’m just back for my apologies.

Thanks.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Sep 10, 2020
  • #420
DavidMCov92 said:
Hello,
I take no enjoyment whatsoever in the injury and my thoughts and prayers are with Jodi but I’m just back for my apologies.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Really?
 
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