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Transfer Shouts (8 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Tea & Busquets
  • Start date Apr 22, 2022
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SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,221
Liquid Gold said:
Definitely.

We should be looking to sell Hamer and replace with 4 players of similar quality though. Not 1 player and deal with it as has been alluded to.
Click to expand...

I’m also not massively fussed about spending on transfers. We need to increase our wage budget so even if Hamer going out gave us the opportunity to increase our wage budget by £2m per year for the next 3 years then that would give us far more opportunity to progress. Or even a bit of a balancing act between the two.
 
Reactions: Blind-Faith
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,222
ovduk78 said:
I remember seeing Kevan Smith play and sure he was, along with Kevin Mcdonald, the slowest player I've ever seen.
Click to expand...
It's fair to say that Sillett wasn't always the finest judge of a player from lower leagues. We had Smith, Martin Lane was another, Edwards... I guess Houchen was God for the cup games, but not that great as a top flight forward really. Emerson a hit, obviously, but struggling to think of other lower league gems that made it under Sillett (wait for somebody to reel off a list now!)
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,223
SBAndy said:
I’m also not massively fussed about spending on transfers. We need to increase our wage budget so even if Hamer going out gave us the opportunity to increase our wage budget by £2m per year for the next 3 years then that would give us far more opportunity to progress. Or even a bit of a balancing act between the two.
Click to expand...
Yeah at the end of the day it depends who, and what potential they have. How they're signed doesn't really bother me... although loan replacements won't work beyond the one-offs, for obvious reasons.
 
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,224
SBAndy said:
I’m also not massively fussed about spending on transfers. We need to increase our wage budget so even if Hamer going out gave us the opportunity to increase our wage budget by £2m per year for the next 3 years then that would give us far more opportunity to progress. Or even a bit of a balancing act between the two.
Click to expand...

Transfer fees received are unlikely going to enhance our ability to increase our wage bill, not significantly anyway.

As that's completely unsustainable and one sure way for the club to bankrupt itself.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,225
Grendel said:
Culpin was before that

Nick Pickering and Dean Emerson?
Click to expand...

I think Pickering was signed in the last month or so of Don Mackays stewardship
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,226
The only thing I’m slightly concerned about is us stagnating and not building upon last season.
 
Reactions: Ann Proctor-Brown

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,227
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Transfer fees received are unlikely going to enhance our ability to increase our wage bill, not significantly anyway.

As that's completely unsustainable and one sure way for the club to bankrupt itself.
Click to expand...

Very interesting take. What I’m getting at isn’t an ongoing increase, merely using funds (like suggested) to give us the ability to bring in half-decent players on half-decent 3-year contracts this summer. If it all goes tits up then they’re out of contract by the time the wage bill has to be reduced again.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,228
SBAndy said:
It’s also the issue with people getting hung up on “keeping hold of the big 3”. If we want to progress in the medium term we *need* to sell and reinvest. Hamer, O’Hare or Gyokeres get to their last year of contract and we’re fucked.
Click to expand...


Equally if we are going to see little of the money me might as well keep them and use them.
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains and Northeast sky blue

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,229
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Transfer fees received are unlikely going to enhance our ability to increase our wage bill, not significantly anyway.

As that's completely unsustainable and one sure way for the club to bankrupt itself.
Click to expand...

It's budgetable. For instance if you use the money to bring in a player on 10k per week, that's roughly 500k per year, £1.5m over 3 year contract. Appreciate that's not quite accurate with other costs such as NI contributions & other employment costs but it can be used in that way without risking the future of the club - particularly as a lot of the transfer fee would be received in installments anyway.
 
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KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,230
SBAndy said:
Very interesting take. What I’m getting at isn’t an ongoing increase, merely using funds (like suggested) to give us the ability to bring in half-decent players on half-decent 3-year contracts this summer. If it all goes tits up then they’re out of contract by the time the wage bill has to be reduced again.
Click to expand...

Oh apologies I thought you meant over the coming years - meaning we'd essentially have to be relying on significant player sales season after season in order to sustain the continuous hikes. One bad window would essentially cripple the club.
 

scottccfc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,231
nothing more then just a name but IF vik was to go, what about trying to go for Josh Maja
 
Reactions: PUSB-We_are_going_up
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,232
Nick said:
I AM SO ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING I DONT KNOW WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN!
Click to expand...

I’m going to book a romantic weekend with the wife in Middlesbrough. I’d ask for suggestions on where to stay but the thread’s full of them
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains and mr_monkey
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,233
mark82 said:
It's budgetable. For instance if you use the money to bring in a player on 10k per week, that's roughly 500k per year, £1.5m over 3 year contract. Appreciate that's not quite accurate with other costs such as NI contributions & other employment costs but it can be used in that way without risking the future of the club - particularly as a lot of the transfer fee would be received in installments anyway.
Click to expand...

It's not particularly in the medium term. As you're relying on consistent sales to fund that.

What happens if O'Hare or Hamer suffer either a massive drop-off in form or perhaps more likely suffer serious injuries ultimately affecting their value? There's no guarantee the players brought in on the aforementioned significant wages will succeed given that every transfer has an element of risk attached to it and as such the club could be left with few saleable assets to sustain their now unsustainable wage bill.

As mentioned they might perhaps in the short term to increase the wage bill marginally in order to give Robins some extra room to manoeuvre but in the medium term they're highly unlikely to take such a risk.

However I'm not particularly holding my breath when there's interest payments owed, operational costs to cover and the EFL loan looming.
 

edgy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,234
A name out of the blue with no substance other than the Brighton link.

Moisés Caicedo

Ecudorian international, signed for Brighton last summer for £4,5m but sent out on loan to Beershot in Belgium. Recalled by Brighton during a midfielder shortage and played a few games in the PL towards the end of last season. Very higly thought of by Potter and Brighton but maybe an English loan would be his next likely destination?
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,235
edgy said:
A name out of the blue with no substance other than the Brighton link.

Moisés Caicedo

Ecudorian international, signed for Brighton last summer for £4,5m but sent out on loan to Beershot in Belgium. Recalled by Brighton during a midfielder shortage and played a few games in the PL towards the end of last season. Very higly thought of by Potter and Brighton but maybe an English loan would be his next likely destination?
Click to expand...

I’d imagine he will be very much in the first team frame now Bissouma has gone.

Edit: and I wonder whether the loan to Belgium (a trick Man Utd used to use) was more to do with work permit issues.
 
Reactions: edgy

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,236
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
It's not particularly in the medium term. As you're relying on consistent sales to fund that.

What happens if O'Hare or Hamer suffer either a massive drop-off in form or perhaps more likely suffer serious injuries ultimately affecting their value? There's no guarantee the players brought in on the aforementioned significant wages will succeed given that every transfer has an element of risk attached to it and as such the club could be left with few saleable assets to sustain their now unsustainable wage bill.

As mentioned they might perhaps in the short term to increase the wage bill marginally in order to give Robins some extra room to manoeuvre but in the medium term they're highly unlikely to take such a risk.

However I'm not particularly holding my breath when there's interest payments owed, operational costs to cover and the EFL loan looming.
Click to expand...

If you continually recycled the method I’ve mentioned then you’d be able to organically grow the wage budget without risking the club’s future. Yes of course it relies on player sales but without a change in ownership it’s the only way we’ll be able to improve.
 

Briles

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,237
I think we will keep waghorn
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,238
I beg of you all to please stop talking as if instalments make a difference. All transfers of a significant value in or out are paid in instalments. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference.
 
Reactions: mark82, shmmeee and robbiekeane
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,239
SBAndy said:
If you continually recycled the method I’ve mentioned then you’d be able to organically grow the wage budget without risking the club’s future. Yes of course it relies on player sales but without a change in ownership it’s the only way we’ll be able to improve.
Click to expand...

Personally, with how we operate - i.e. SISU's only form of investment being short-term high-interest loans - I think our wage bill can realistically only be constructed mainly from consistent sources of income. E.g. Commercial and ticketing revenue, TV money, F&B and sponsorship.

If we get ourselves into a situation of using received transfer fees as a basis from which to establish a wage budget then that's more likely than not to land us in hot water as there's far too many uncertainties and irregularities in football to rely on transfer fees as a consistent source of income and to subsidise a growing wage bill.
 
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edgy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,240
SBAndy said:
I’d imagine he will be very much in the first team frame now Bissouma has gone.

Edit: and I wonder whether the loan to Belgium (a trick Man Utd used to use) was more to do with work permit issues.
Click to expand...

Yes you're probably right. Was daydreaming on how to soften the blow of a potential Hamer deal.
 

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,241
Briles said:
I think we will keep waghorn
Click to expand...


I fucking hope not, never seen such a waste of a city shirt since Neil Wood
 
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,242
Saddlebrains said:
I fucking hope not, never seen such a waste of a city shirt since Neil Wood
Click to expand...

Ridiculous post
 
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Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,243
fernandopartridge said:
Ridiculous post
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Why is it?

I suppose you thought he 'brought something to the team'

Na im joking great, season 1 goal 1 assist, lets extend him
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,244
Saddlebrains said:
Why is it?

I suppose you thought he 'brought something to the team'

Na im joking great, season 1 goal 1 assist, lets extend him
Click to expand...

Grow up, and yes he did bring something when he played and he was much better than Neil fucking Wood.
 
Reactions: TwistAndShoutCCFC1987 and mr_monkey

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,245
fernandopartridge said:
Grow up, and yes he did bring something when he played and he was much better than Neil fucking Wood.
Click to expand...


What did he bring?
 

edgy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,246
Swaghorn
 
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K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,247
Saddlebrains said:
I fucking hope not, never seen such a waste of a city shirt since Neil Wood
Click to expand...

I think that's a bit unfair. He's been pretty unfortunate. Showed some initial promising signs but then caught Covid, suffered injuries then when he was returned his place was lost to an in-form Godden.
 
Reactions: mr_monkey

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,248
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Personally, with how we operate - i.e. SISU's only form of investment being short-term high-interest loans - I think our wage bill can realistically only be constructed mainly from consistent sources of income. E.g. Commercial and ticketing revenue, TV money, F&B and sponsorship.

If we get ourselves into a situation of using received transfer fees as a basis from which to establish a wage budget then that's more likely than not to land us in hot water as there's far too many uncertainties and irregularities in football to rely on transfer fees as a consistent source of income and to subsidise a growing wage bill.
Click to expand...

And on a base level I’d agree *if* we were speculatively increasing the wage bill on potential future transfer fees. What I’m suggesting is the reverse of that - using fees received as a means to fund future wages. I’ll hypothesise this quickly (and I’ll use round numbers to make it easier to explain so don’t read into the figures used!):

Say we get £8m for Hamer. £2m taken by SISU either for club overheads or as interest payments (rightly or wrongly, it’ll probably happen). This leaves £6m. You could then split that £6m over the next 3 years and increase the wage bill by £2m per year using this income that has already been received.

In a year’s time, we come to sell Gyokeres and he commands a fee of £12m. Again, £3m cut to SISU leaving £9m. Spread that over 3 years again and you can inflate by a further £3m per year based on income received.

Then one of the players we’ve brought in using Hamer’s funding blossoms and is worth £6m. £1.5m to SISU and £4.5m spread over 3 years again. You’re now in a situation where, instead of having a wage budget in a year of £15m (rough estimate of where we are at the moment) this is organically increased to £21.5m. If the rest of the players signed using those initial Hamer funds fail then their contracts roll off in time for the £2m drop the following year.

It’s just a rough working theory and crucially doesn’t take into account contract extensions but as a framework I think it has legs. For reference, that extra £6.5m that we’ve created on the wage bill for the ‘top performing’ season equates to an additional £125,000 per week on wages.
 
Reactions: edgy and Saddlebrains
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,249
SBAndy said:
And on a base level I’d agree *if* we were speculatively increasing the wage bill on potential future transfer fees. What I’m suggesting is the reverse of that - using fees received as a means to fund future wages. I’ll hypothesise this quickly (and I’ll use round numbers to make it easier to explain so don’t read into the figures used!):

Say we get £8m for Hamer. £2m taken by SISU either for club overheads or as interest payments (rightly or wrongly, it’ll probably happen). This leaves £6m. You could then split that £6m over the next 3 years and increase the wage bill by £2m per year using this income that has already been received.

In a year’s time, we come to sell Gyokeres and he commands a fee of £12m. Again, £3m cut to SISU leaving £9m. Spread that over 3 years again and you can inflate by a further £3m per year based on income received.

Then one of the players we’ve brought in using Hamer’s funding blossoms and is worth £6m. £1.5m to SISU and £4.5m spread over 3 years again. You’re now in a situation where, instead of having a wage budget in a year of £15m (rough estimate of where we are at the moment) this is organically increased to £21.5m. If the rest of the players signed using those initial Hamer funds fail then their contracts roll off in time for the £2m drop the following year.

It’s just a rough working theory and crucially doesn’t take into account contract extensions but as a framework I think it has legs. For reference, that extra £6.5m that we’ve created on the wage bill for the ‘top performing’ season equates to an additional £125,000 per week on wages.
Click to expand...

Some interesting thoughts. I think there are more costs to be considered - and I doubt Robins would be given up to 75 per cent of a sale but it's something the club could at least consider for the short term at the very least.
 
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,250
Hull City have put a bid in of £3m for Scott Twine. Strong statement of intent from them.
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,251
Liquid Gold said:
I beg of you all to please stop talking as if instalments make a difference. All transfers of a significant value in or out are paid in instalments. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference.
Click to expand...
Does my fucking head in
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,252
Same as people talking about transfer fees and wages as if they come out of different pots
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,253
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Some interesting thoughts. I think there are more costs to be considered - and I doubt Robins would be given up to 75 per cent of a sale but it's something the club could at least consider for the short term at the very least.
Click to expand...

Cut it down to 50% then. Still results in £4.6m (or £90k per week) extra on the wage budget at the peak.

Again, appreciate there’s other elements such as signing on bonuses, possible transfer fees, contract extensions, etc. Though you’d hope that the only contract extensions would be for those who carry value.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,254
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’m going to book a romantic weekend with the wife in Middlesbrough. I’d ask for suggestions on where to stay but the thread’s full of them
Click to expand...

You might be better off heading over to the divorce thread in that case.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #3,255
robbiekeane said:
Same as people talking about transfer fees and wages as if they come out of different pots
Click to expand...

And people talking about us not being able to afford a players wages as if they are going to expect their current wage for the rest of their career, even if they are in decline or in need of a fresh start.
 
Reactions: TomRad85 and Deleted member 5849
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