Tommy Robinson (2 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Also like to add , I’ve never voted right wing in my life , but modern day left wing ideals are fucking warped .
True liberal values and morals out the window , shambles .

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

Also like to add , I’ve never voted right wing in my life , but modern day left wing ideals are fucking warped .
True liberal values and morals out the window , shambles .

Have we descended to the evel of idiotic generalisations?

Yep.

 

[chiefdave]

Which one is it then?

One minute it is 28%, the next 4%.

One minute you are denying you are trying to say there isn't a problem, the next you are denying there is a problem.

Where did those figures come from ? How are the stats just in England ?

The 28% you are quoting is a 2011 CEOP study into grooming gangs only not child sex abuse overall. There is a caveat as the CEOP have stated using those figures to state Asian overrepresentation isn't backed by the study due to the poor quality of the raw data available.

The 4% is a more reliable statistic from the Ministry of Justice as they hold data for all child sex offences. That has Asian offending at 4%.

The UK population figures are from the last census.

 

[Grendel]

The 28% you are quoting is a 2011 CEOP study into grooming gangs only not child sex abuse overall. There is a caveat as the CEOP have stated using those figures to state Asian overrepresentation isn't backed by the study due to the poor quality of the raw data available.

The 4% is a more reliable statistic from the Ministry of Justice as they hold data for all child sex offences. That has Asian offending at 4%.

The UK population figures are from the last census.

Again you make Tommy Robinson’s day

 

[Evo1883]

Have we descended to the evel of idiotic generalisations?

Yep.

No

I actually care about women receiving equal opportunity and equal rights
I actually care that homosexuals are not stoned to death and are not thrown off buildings
I actually don’t think women should be covering their body and face just to satisfy their man and make him feel empowered whilst she feels oppressed .
I actually care about children being groomed , it’s disgusting
I actually don’t enjoy people being blown up all over Europe and the world
I actually believe my daughters are equal to my son

Liberals today say the same , then put every effort into backing a religion that has all these problems in a far more severe way than any other religion .

Called hypocrisy

 

[clint van damme]

No

I actually care about women receiving equal opportunity and equal rights
I actually care that homosexuals are not stoned to death and are not thrown off buildings
I actually don’t think women should be covering their body and face just to satisfy their man and make him feel empowered whilst she feels oppressed .
I actually care about children being groomed .
I actually don’t enjoy people being blown up all over Europe and the worlds .
I actually believe my daughters are equal to my son

Liberals today say the same , then put every effort into backing a religion that has all these problems in a far more severe way than any other religion .
Called hypocrisy

I believe in all of those things, and I also don't believe in stigmatising whole communities based on the actions of a minority.
I also don't believe that our government should be best mates with the backers of the extremist ideology that adhere to some of the practices you've listed.

 

[Evo1883]

I believe in all of those things, and I also don't believe in stigmatising whole communities based on the actions of a minority.
I also don't believe that our government should be best mates with the backers of the extremist ideology that adhere to some of the practices you've listed.

A minority ?

Look at the size and populations of the worlds largest Muslim countries .
How can you call it a minority ?? Some of these countries have appalling attitudes right across the board towards homosexuals and women , even their own daughters .

It’s NOT a minority.
They are teaching kids all accross the Middle East that jews are the enemy ?
That’s not a minority

A Muslim I once worked with told me Islam was the only true religion as they live by its word and it’s not been reformed .
It’s still pure
Now go read the book

 

[chiefdave]

Again you make Tommy Robinson’s day

He's never stuck me as the sort of person who is a big fan of facts but clearly you know better.

 

[Evo1883]

I’m an atheist , I disagree with a lot of things that go on as a whole under the name of religion .
ALL religions , but Islam takes the cake for the most medieval and barbaric , truly disgusting .

 

[clint van damme]

A minority ?

I'm referring to in this country.
To be fair, I would imagine that most in the middle east actually like living under the regimes they have in charge they don't have much choice but that's just a guess.
I agree regarding the attitude of many towards women and gays.

 

[Evo1883]

I'm referring to in this country.
To be fair, I would imagine that most in the middle east actually like living under the regimes they have in charge they don't have much choice but that's just a guess.
I agree regarding the attitude of many towards women and gays.

I accept Other religions have issues with homosexuality .
But I just don’t recall people being buried and stoned routinely because of it

 

[Evo1883]

I just want to live in a society where we see things that are wrong we sort it , we don’t hold back because they believe in a Sky fairy .
I don’t want us to hold back because they are black , brown or white .
I want justice to be done to any wrong doers , I also want any Saudi funded mosques to be closed down immediately in this country .
These places are nothing but hate centres .

The establishment , the justice system the police and the media are creating thousands of tommy Robinson’s .They are feulling right wing rhetoric by failing to enforce basic justice , consistent for all .
If it’s not addressed then eventually your 23000 jihadis living in Britain and your 4-500,000 tommy Robinson’s will clash , and it won’t be nice

 

[chiefdave]

I would start with implementing a public zero tolerance policy straight away. They need to know they are not going to get away with it, or be able to hide behind their religion. Community leaders need to be brought onside to echo this and a mass clean up is needed. The time of getting away with it is over.

That all sounds great and there's nothing there anyone would disagree with but on a practical level how do you achieve that? I don't think you'd find many people who would complain if you said we were rounding up all the perpetrators of child sexual abuse tomorrow and chucking them in the sea but thats not going to happen.

You can throw out a zero tolerance but that implies everyone is currently walking around condoning chid abuse which simply isn't the case. For the vast majority it is something to be reviled.

Are you talking about changes to the burden of proof to make it easier to secure convictions?

She is a bit ignorant about the wider picture but talks a lot about younger vulnerable girls 'covering themselves up' and going to meet groups of men in hotels all the time. They frequently report it to the police and they do nothing. That has to change.

When talking about grooming gangs this is one area that research would suggest could make a big difference. Studies show that the majority of child sexual abuse is based on a sexual attraction towards children but with grooming gangs it has been found not to be the case and instead the most vulnerable are targeted. While it should certainly not be the only tactic more resources to ensure vulnerable children are properly cared for and their activities monitored can only be a good thing.

If problems are being reported to the police and being ignored then that is a serious problem. That is something that certainly should be taken further and if that was what the likes of Tommy Robinson was exposing rather than turning up at court appearances of those already on trial he would most likely get more support.

 

[clint van damme]

I just want to live in a society where we see things that are wrong we sort it , we don’t hold back because they believe in a Sky fairy .
I don’t want us to hold back because they are black , brown or white .
I want justice to be done to any wrong doers , I also want any Saudi funded mosques to be closed down immediately in this country .
These places are nothing but hate centres .

Again I agree, but I don't want to see all Muslims stigmatised because of the few.
I've always had Muslim neighbours who've been good as gold, normal families who just want to work and raise their kids.

I don't think it's right to lump them in with the extremists and the perverts.

 

[Evo1883]

Again I agree, but I don't want to see all Muslims stigmatised because of the few.
I've always had Muslim neighbours who've been good as gold, normal families who just want to work and raise their kids.

I don't think it's right to lump them in with the extremists and the perverts.

Not all the people in nazi Germany were bad people , but the nazis and their ideology needed to be stopped

 

[Evo1883]

Not being argumentative it just frustrates me that’s all .
I was in the army , i went to Iraq Afghanistan Kuwait and I spent time in Israel Training on UAVs .
I’ve seen the propaganda machine at work , I’ve seen how nice people treat each other in these countries .
I can’t buy into the old “religion of peace “ nonsense .
Given half a chance their religion comes first they would drop any morals they have to do whatever for their god , many people of other religions are the same but like I said Islam is a different beast

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Again I agree, but I don't want to see all Muslims stigmatised because of the few.
I've always had Muslim neighbours who've been good as gold, normal families who just want to work and raise their kids.

I don't think it's right to lump them in with the extremists and the perverts.

It's ridiculous and offensive to do so. If we descend to that level, then all white Christians are MASSIVE paedos who abuse HUNDREDS of people thanks to issues within the Catholic church, and cases such as Jimmy Saville.

It's nonsense of course.

As it is nonsense to suggest that by saying so, you're pro child abuse by Muslims!

 

[clint van damme]

Not all the people in nazi Germany were bad people , but the nazis and their ideology needed to be stopped

That was a war though so bombing civilians was part and parcel of that both for the Nazis and the allies.
I would suggest, (and you've alluded to it), that pressurising the government to stop allowing the Saudis to spread Wahhibism with impunity and not backing Al Qaeda affiliates in Syria would be more effective than hate crime against moderate Muslims on the streets of this country, (I appreciate that isn't what you personally are advocating).

 

[Evo1883]

That was a war though so bombing civilians was part and parcel of that both for the Nazis and the allies.
I would suggest, (and you've alluded to it), that pressurising the government to stop allowing the Saudis to spread Wahhibism with impunity and not backing Al Qaeda affiliates in Syria would be more effective than hate crime against moderate Muslims on the streets of this country, (I appreciate that isn't what you personally are advocating).

The Saudi funded mosques should be shut with immediate effect. But Theresa may is in bed with the saudi government so won’t happen

 

[Evo1883]

I also think the withdrawal of all and any Foreign troops from these countries with immediate effect would be another step in the right direction

 

[Evo1883]

Just think how much better it would all be without fucking religion lol

 

[clint van damme]

The Saudi funded mosques should be shut with immediate effect. But Theresa may is in bed with the saudi government so won’t happen

to be fair to her, (which is something I don't like doing!), every PM and their cabinet since the 50s have been.

 

[clint van damme]

I also think the withdrawal of all and any Foreign troops from these countries with immediate effect would be another step in the right direction

As someone who has been over there, how do you think that would play out?

 

[Ashdown]

It's ridiculous and offensive to do so. If we descend to that level, then all white Christians are MASSIVE paedos who abuse HUNDREDS of people thanks to issues within the Catholic church, and cases such as Jimmy Saville.

It's nonsense of course.

As it is nonsense to suggest that by saying so, you're pro child abuse by Muslims!

The catholic church was and still is to an extent a disgusting refuge for all sorts of deranged sexual predators, it has been for centuries. I'm no fan of radical Islam or the hierarchical crap from the catholics either.

 

[Evo1883]

As someone who has been over there, how do you think that would play out?

Well for starters we need to remain until a government is in place voted for by the people .problem is wether the governments can remain in power as their will be coups by terror organisations within these countries
Syria is a different beast , I’m appalled that the British and the Americans have gone against Russia in the region as on the surface it looks like we are backing the wrong people , ISIS .
Obviously I said immediate but I meant as fast as possible whilst trying to help implement a democracy for the people , but beyond that what can we do ?
It would halt the influx of refugees initially .
It’s very difficult but there is no denying our roles over the last 20 years have helped drive terror , although terrorism was happening long before that anyway .
The old saying , let them get on with it could never be more true
Help them rebuild , move on and let history judge us

All these countries will have problems with terrorism and extremism for many years to come , people like Saddam just kept the extremists in order through fear.

Israel will never have peace , I’d rather not talk about this particular issue as my experiences in Israel do not reflect what the media tell everybody

 

[clint van damme]

Well for starters we need to remain until a government is in place voted for by the people .problem is wether the governments can remain in power as their will be coups by terror organisations within these countries
Syria is a different beast , I’m appalled that the British and the Americans have gone against Russia in the region as on the surface it looks like we are backing the wrong people , ISIS .
Obviously I said immediate but I meant as fast as possible whilst trying to help implement a democracy for the people , but beyond that what can we do ?
It would halt the influx of refugees initially .
It’s very difficult but there is no denying our roles over the last 20 years have helped drive terror , although terrorism was happening long before that anyway .
The old saying , let them get on with it could never be more true

I don't think for one minute that Islamic extremism hasn't existed for years, I do think western foreign policy has helped it to spread more virulently.

With regard to the Syria situation, there is a war being fought all across the middle east between Sunni and Shia and the west and Russia have allowed themselves to become embroiled especially in Syria, in it and it's not going to be easy to get out. Think it will be at least a couple of decades until the whole thing settles down.

 

[Ashdown]

We would all be out in a jiffy if the Arab world wasn't the centre of the oil industry !

 

[fernandopartridge]

He's never stuck me as the sort of person who is a big fan of facts but clearly you know better.

In fairness chief you've posted up a fact that shows that grooming gangs are almost equally Asian or White British. That means that an Asian person in the UK is roughly 13 times more likely to be in a grooming gang doesn't it?

 

[Ashdown]

In fairness chief you've posted up a fact that shows that grooming gangs are almost equally Asian or White British. That means that an Asian person in the UK is roughly 13 times more likely to be in a grooming gang doesn't it?

I wouldn't just say Asian though, would you ?, that suggests a whole lot of other largely innocent people from a variety of Asian communities ?!

 

[Sick Boy]

The catholic church was and still is to an extent a disgusting refuge for all sorts of deranged sexual predators, it has been for centuries. I'm no fan of radical Islam or the hierarchical crap from the catholics either.

It happens in the CoE as well and that's full of hierarchies, yet people blindly defend the head of it who has supposedly been put there by the grace of God and then bang on about the Pope?!

What's the difference, both are as bad as each other.

It's all massively outdated for the 21st century, both religion and the monarchy...

 

[Sick Boy]

I wouldn't just say Asian though, would you ?, that suggests a whole lot of other largely innocent people from a variety of Asian communities ?!

Your post suggests you're singling out Muslims and tarring millions of innocent people with the same brush.

 

[dancers lance]

Not being argumentative it just frustrates me that’s all .
I was in the army , i went to Iraq Afghanistan Kuwait and I spent time in Israel Training on UAVs .
I’ve seen the propaganda machine at work , I’ve seen how nice people treat each other in these countries .
I can’t buy into the old “religion of peace “ nonsense .
Given half a chance their religion comes first they would drop any morals they have to do whatever for their god , many people of other religions are the same but like I said Islam is a different beast

Thank you for your service brother, I would just like to refer you to a post of mine from a while back......

I despise all religions equally, however, other religions seem to have grown up a bit whilst islam has gone backwards. All religions are bad, but not quite as bad as islam is bad. One thing islam does, that no other religion does is call itself the 'final solution, the final revelation' .......that it is, and will be, the final word of god (that all other religions are bullshit) and that it's final aim is world domination and to get world domination you must use jihad, which it seems they are very quick to obey.

There are no 'softer versions' of the koran, if you are a muslim you have to take this book as fact, that it is perfect, to even question it would class you as an apostate (have a guess what the punishment for that is)......i'll give you a clue, it's the same as the one for the gays.

Okay, let's take the case of Louis Smith, a man who played a massive part in changing the fortunes of his sport, not only in this country, but on the world stage, an Olympic hero. Now, this man dared to make a video that muslims considered 'mocking' islam, ('mocking' is the first label muslims like to use if you even mention islam) and for which he was lambasted from all and sundry, his actions were called stupid in the house of commons, he was called an islamaphobe by the muslim council of Great Britain, threatened with death constantly (and it's still happening), forced to make a groveling apology then still punished by his sports governing body.

People sport vicar and nun costumes every weekend, at every stag and hen night, the country wide, where is the anger? where are the leaders or followers of these religions? why are they not threatening beheading, forcing statements to be made in government, why do they not spout...... 'mocking' 'offence' 'phobia' 'racism' ?

To say that something 'offends' you therefore it is wrong, is bullshit, grow up, nothing happens, you just feel offended? If something offends you then so fucking what! Do not use that as a reason to stifle free speech and fucking kill people (which is exactly the objective of fairy tale loving, infantile, religious types) and sadly, the types which many are quick to defend and fall for.

 

[Captain Dart]

Thank you for your service brother, I would just like to refer you to a post of mine from a while back......

I despise all religions equally, however, other religions seem to have grown up a bit whilst islam has gone backwards. All religions are bad, but not quite as bad as islam is bad. One thing islam does, that no other religion does is call itself the 'final solution, the final revelation' .......that it is, and will be, the final word of god (that all other religions are bullshit) and that it's final aim is world domination and to get world domination you must use jihad, which it seems they are very quick to obey.

There are no 'softer versions' of the koran, if you are a muslim you have to take this book as fact, that it is perfect, to even question it would class you as an apostate (have a guess what the punishment for that is)......i'll give you a clue, it's the same as the one for the gays.

Okay, let's take the case of Louis Smith, a man who played a massive part in changing the fortunes of his sport, not only in this country, but on the world stage, an Olympic hero. Now, this man dared to make a video that muslims considered 'mocking' islam, ('mocking' is the first label muslims like to use if you even mention islam) and for which he was lambasted from all and sundry, his actions were called stupid in the house of commons, he was called an islamaphobe by the muslim council of Great Britain, threatened with death constantly (and it's still happening), forced to make a groveling apology then still punished by his sports governing body.

People sport vicar and nun costumes every weekend, at every stag and hen night, the country wide, where is the anger? where are the leaders or followers of these religions? why are they not threatening beheading, forcing statements to be made in government, why do they not spout...... 'mocking' 'offence' 'phobia' 'racism' ?

To say that something 'offends' you therefore it is wrong, is bullshit, grow up, nothing happens, you just feel offended? If something offends you then so fucking what! Do not use that as a reason to stifle free speech and fucking kill people (which is exactly the objective of fairy tale loving, infantile, religious types) and sadly, the types which many are quick to defend and fall for.

Spot on. I can have no respect for intolerance & claims of superiority.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The "offended" status is an interesting one.....

I see recently both a British pub chain & a German beer manufacturer have both felt obliged to apologise for offense caused by daring to include the flag of Saudi Arabia on marketing material.......apparently it is offensive to Muslims as their flag contains religious text so should not be associated with alcohol production, sale or consumption.....

.....could be tricky considering Budweiser is a major sponsor of the tournament......

 

[chiefdave]

The Saudi funded mosques should be shut with immediate effect. But Theresa may is in bed with the saudi government so won’t happen

I also think the withdrawal of all and any Foreign troops from these countries with immediate effect would be another step in the right direction

Couldn't agree more with these two statements.​

Amazes me that there isn't more opposition to the governments cosy relationship with the likes of Saudi.

And we need to realise we're not a super power and not the worlds police. You only have to look at our history in the middle east to see that every time we involve ourselves the outcome is eventually something worse than we had in the first place.