Thursday 4th May (1 Viewer)

shmmeee said:

Do you want to force people to live together who don’t want to? Otherwise I’m not sure what can be done.

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No.

We need to increase the birth rate in the U.K. by taking away the restrictions and barriers that discourage couples having kids and staying together.

Schools open longer so that both parents can pursue careers should they choose. Better access to funded childcare. Ban homework (nightime should be family social time (sounds daft at first but follow it through)).

The alternative is a U.K. population crash or huge immigration necessity in order to avoid such things as raising retirement age (see France for details).

Ashdown said:

I was referring to governments around the world adapting to life without relying on population growth….The UK is just a tiny part of the problem.

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You’ll see a shift in demographic but not necessarily as you’d predict.

Eg.

Last time I was in India the notion of emigrating there became less crazy.

Vibrant growing economy with ever improving infrastructure and opportunity.

The crazy notion of my lad going to Bangalore to go to uni to study started to sound less mad (alternative: huge student debt at higher and higher int rate? Can live very well over there for relatively little).

Because of my parentage he can go without normal visa requirements.

It sounds crazy, but is it?

(The point I’m trying to illustrate is that the “pull” of coming to the U.K. may well lessen as developing nations thrive)

The Philosopher said:

(The point I’m trying to illustrate is that the “pull” of coming to the U.K. may well lessen as developing nations thrive)

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Or alternatively as the UK continues its descent under its authoritarian right wing governments

shmmeee said:

What do you think was a fuck up? The lower debt? The increased number of surpluses? The improvement in public services? The reduction in homelessness? The growing economy?

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You seem to have developed selective amnesia, did you not remember the continued bullshit he poured out over the WMD!!! The illegal war, remember that? his desire to fawn over president Bush, countless innocent dead in Iraq, lying to the UN, lying to countless enquiries, sexed up documents, etc etc
And let's not even open the lid on tuition fees, foundation hospitals, mass immigration and his personal ambitions to bring closer alliance with the EU.
He was such a liability towards the end of his tenure that he Labour Party didn't wait for a general election, they chose instead to force him out the door, as his own ambitions were no longer in line with the party or the country.

fatso said:

You seem to have developed selective amnesia, did you not remember the continued bullshit he poured out over the WMD!!! The illegal war, remember that? his desire to fawn over president Bush, countless innocent dead in Iraq, lying to the UN, lying to countless enquiries, sexed up documents, etc etc
And let's not even open the lid on tuition fees, foundation hospitals, mass immigration and his personal ambitions to bring closer alliance with the EU.
He was such a liability towards the end of his tenure that he Labour Party didn't wait for a general election, they chose instead to force him out the door, as his own ambitions were no longer in line with the party or the country.

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No, I just care more about the U.K. doing well than Iraq or the EU

shmmeee said:

No, I just care more about the U.K. doing well than Iraq or the EU

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That's very public spirited of you.
We won't mention shariah law taking controll of inner city areas then. As someone has pointed out this is a footy forum.

fatso said:

That's very public spirited of you.
We won't mention shariah law taking controll of inner city areas then. As someone has pointed out this is a footy forum.

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Which inner city areas are under shariah law these days?

fernandopartridge said:

Or alternatively as the UK continues its descent under its authoritarian right wing governments

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This government is authoritarian right wing?

Often, towards the end of a government tenure they attempt to outflank their rivals.

A few years back the Tories tried to out UKIP UKIP and of late tried to out overspend the left with their ridiculous furlough and business bounce back initiatives which were rife with fraud and put the country into huge debt.

Blair tried to outflank Cameron by veering right towards the end.

Now, businesses are being taxed like never before and the outlook is bleak.

And as for authoritarianism, I’ve never known a less funded and softer police situation. Crime and fraud is rife.

Doom and gloom.

Let hope CCFC gives us something to cheer about.

fatso said:

That's very public spirited of you.
We won't mention shariah law taking controll of inner city areas then. As someone has pointed out this is a footy forum.

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In the U.K.? Under Tony Blair? Are you feeling quite well?

fatso said:

It is true though. I'm of an age to of witnessed it.

I was in the poll tax riots and anti Thatcher marches, but trust me, I don't know many of my age who would of even considered voting for that prick Corbyn at the last election

The next general election will undoubtedly be closer, but in all honesty, Starmer has got fuck all going for him apart from the fact that he isn't Rishi Sunak, and will that be enough? It's hardly a manifesto.

Incidentally, there was an old saying that used to piss me off big time, but now kind of rings true.....

"If your not a socialist in your twenties, then you have no heart, if your still a socialist in your forties, then you have no brain"

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Manifestos really have little baring on GE results, the Non-Dom billionaire media magnate’s coupled with the now ‘under conservative rule’ BBC will ultimately choose our Government for us.

The Philosopher said:

This government is authoritarian right wing?

Often, towards the end of a government tenure they attempt to outflank their rivals.

A few years back the Tories tried to out UKIP UKIP and of late tried to out overspend the left with their ridiculous furlough and business bounce back initiatives which were rife with fraud and put the country into huge debt.

Blair tried to outflank Cameron by veering right towards the end.

Now, businesses are being taxed like never before and the outlook is bleak.

And as for authoritarianism, I’ve never known a less funded and softer police situation. Crime and fraud is rife.

Doom and gloom.

Let hope CCFC gives us something to cheer about.

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Why not go out and try and make anti-monarchy views known in London this weekend

fernandopartridge said:

Why not go out and try and make anti-monarchy views known in London this weekend

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The monarchy, as an institution, has some uses.

Better turnouts in one of the wards adjacent to mine (49%) and the two incumbent Tories have held their seat.

Just looking at turnout in our area and the wards range between 26-34 %
Really doesn’t offer a lot of insight that … at council level the majority wonder if it’s worth bothering

Ashdown said:

Just looking at turnout in our area and the wards range between 26-34 %
Really doesn’t offer a lot of insight that … at council level the majority wonder if it’s worth bothering

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They should remove peoples right if they don’t bother

shmmeee said:

Didn’t vote. First time in ages. Didn’t have the car and couldn’t be arsed to walk.

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Do what I do, use your Postal vote, saves all the hassle.

Sky Blue Pete said:

They should remove peoples right if they don’t bother

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The right to vote includes the right not to

Sky Blue Pete said:

They should remove peoples right if they don’t bother

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I didn't vote. I had absolutely no clue who any of them were.


At least back in the day you would get a metro with a loud speaker driving about telling people who to vote for.

fernandopartridge said:

The right to vote includes the right not to

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To choose not to yep

Nick said:

I didn't vote. I had absolutely no clue who any of them were.


At least back in the day you would get a metro with a loud speaker driving about telling people who to vote for.

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They have them in Italy still, last time a candidate was driven around while swearing and insulting a rival.

Sick Boy said:

They have them in Italy still, last time a candidate was driven around while swearing and insulting a rival.

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Had his rival momentarily dithered at a roundabout

Sky Blue Pete said:

They should remove peoples right if they don’t bother

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Why - if no one voted - that’s a great message

Grendel said:

Why - if no one voted - that’s a great message

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Why is it?
if you can’t be arsed to engage why do you think you should be included in making decisions
Decisions are made by those who turn up
Apathy is not choice

Sky Blue Pete said:

Why is it?
if you can’t be arsed to engage why do you think you should be included in making decisions
Decisions are made by those who turn up
Apathy is not choice

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it’s sending a message politics needs to change

Tory won by 17 votes from Labour in my ward, 50% turnout apparently.

Sick Boy said:

They have them in Italy still, last time a candidate was driven around while swearing and insulting a rival.

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I'd have voted for him.

Sick Boy said:

They have them in Italy still, last time a candidate was driven around while swearing and insulting a rival.

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What Mark Robins should be doing in Middlesbrough before the game on Monday

Jeez! The Tories lost in my area for the first time in history! (Stratford)

shmmeee said:

The people who want to limit population growth, British birth rate isn't high enough to replenish on its own let alone grow the population. So if you want to keep it low you're either keeping out foreigners or telling UK citizens they can't have babies. Which is it?

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I'm not talking just about UK. I don't care where people are from or where they go. It's literally a numbers game. If, in order to survive we're working off the basis that we need more people in every generation in order to afford to pay for the previous one then we're fucked. It CANNOT happen forever, but we'll just blindly carry on working off that saying to ourselves 'it won't be us that suffers, so who cares'. It may be your great, great, great, great grandchildren, but who gives a fuck about them.

Improvements in working peoples pay and conditions almost always come at a time after there has been some disaster resulting in significant population loss - wars, pandemics etc. - because their overall value becomes higher purely because there is less supply. Places with high populations have low wages and poor conditions because workers are seen as dispensable as there is a plentiful supply to replace.

And the problems goes way beyond humans. So many things are getting worse because of the huge human population explosion post-industrial revolution. Climate and weather is becoming more extreme. We have huge problems with flooding because of us building on it. Air, land and water are polluted. We're currently in a period of mass extinction, and much of the reasons for that can be laid at humanity's door as we destroy or contaminate habitats so animals have fewer places to live, breed and feed.

Diseases like cancer are through the roof. Living in closer contact means diseases can spread like wildfire, and as current anti-biotics become ineffective (for those parts of the world lucky enough to have ready access to them) the risk of an untreatable disease/infection rises. The pandemic, in reality, was quite mild compared to previous ones, such as Spanish Flu or previous plagues. Imagine a quarter of the population being wiped out now in the space of a few years? 2BN people! And chances are given how quickly and easily we can travel the world these days, as well as living in closer proximity the conditions would be ripe for it to be way higher.

Relying on population growth can ONLY end in eventual disaster, and rather than being selfish and working on the (fair) assumption that it probably won't be us that bears the brunt of the suffering, we need to accept responsibility and look at different ways we can survive on this earth sustainably without taking over and destroying the entire thing.

But, yeah, that's not going to make someone put an X in the little box is it.

I think that's why there were changes to pension rules recently allowing you to put more in pensions tax free, by the time I get there I think state pensions will be means tested rather than a guarantee. That would reduce the burden a heck of a lot.

skyblu3sk said:

I think that's why there were changes to pension rules recently allowing you to put more in pensions tax free, by the time I get there I think state pensions will be means tested rather than a guarantee. That would reduce the burden a heck of a lot.

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The burden on whom? Tax does not pay for spending. It is simply impossible.

fernandopartridge said:

How original

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How true

fernandopartridge said:

The burden on whom? Tax does not pay for spending. It is simply impossible.

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I don't understand what you mean... what I was saying is if the country no longer has to pay pensions for everyone it would take it closer to a sustainable model with an aging population. Obviously still strains on the NHS and social care but social care is means tested anyway...

The Philosopher said:

No.

We need to increase the birth rate in the U.K. by taking away the restrictions and barriers that discourage couples having kids and staying together.

Schools open longer so that both parents can pursue careers should they choose. Better access to funded childcare. Ban homework (nightime should be family social time (sounds daft at first but follow it through)).

The alternative is a U.K. population crash or huge immigration necessity in order to avoid such things as raising retirement age (see France for details).

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I agree.

Here my children are at school from 8am to 5pm 4 days a week. Wednesdays are a half day. So many workers only have to sort out Wednesday childcare.

Add that to the time of the school buses. Leave 7:25 get home just before 6pm.