Think being a fan-owned club in England is easy? (1 Viewer)

smoo310pusb

New Member
Well if Uri Gellar realized what NEO did, that "there is no spoon", he could of saved him a shit career. With that out of mind, and the King of Pop dead, no more celebrity help for them it seems.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Nobody said it was gonna be easy.


[video=youtube;Q3VEPWDha_Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3VEPWDha_Y[/video]
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
What ownership model would you prefer?
The ownership model is almost irrelevant in the current football world. Football is just not sustainable. Fan ownership would be nice but must be backed by serious capital and decision making must be objective to even begin to prosper.
 

Gary.j

New Member
It's all relative. They've over estimated attendances which they then budgeted against. The same could easily happen here.

It's only relative if we made the same mistakes. If we didn't over estimate attendances, and therefore budgeted accordingly, we shouldn't have a problem? Is that what you're saying?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
The ownership model is almost irrelevant in the current football world. Football is just not sustainable. Fan ownership would be nice but must be backed by serious capital and decision making must be objective to even begin to prosper.

"Serious capital" is exactly the problem IMO. Agreed that the current "business model" (lol) in football is ridiculous.

Anyway, aren't we self sustaining at the moment? Even if it is with player sales. Arguably, they wouldn't be needed if the current squad was playing in front of 8-10k paying fans.

Maybe it's a dream, but I think fans could take it from here, and I think you'd see an increase in both attendance and local sponsorship with a fan owned side. Especially after all we've been though.

I'm yet to be convinced any other model is any better or less likely to end in the catastrophic failure of our club.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
It's only relative if we made the same mistakes. If we didn't over estimate attendances, and therefore budgeted accordingly, we shouldn't have a problem? Is that what you're saying?
Are you saying that because we're the mighty Coventry City that similar mistakes are less likely?
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
The ownership model is almost irrelevant in the current football world. Football is just not sustainable. Fan ownership would be nice but must be backed by serious capital and decision making must be objective to even begin to prosper.

I think the ownership model is important as the greater the number, consent takes over from megalomania; and if that consent is passionate about the long term sustainability of the club they support; then that's surely preferable to what we currently have?
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
I think the ownership model is important as the greater the number, consent takes over from megalomania; and if that consent is passionate about the long term sustainability of the club they support; then that's surely preferable to what we currently have?

and if the majority prefer giving it a go, going for a push this season, just signing the odd extra player as this is our year...?

Benign dictatorship is the way forward.

To work properly that probably needs some reverses in changes too, so the constitution of clubs no longer allows money to be pumped in to the extreme it is, in the form of loans, where shareholdings are limited to avoid total autocracy, but where ultimately... the owners have the wherewithal to ride out the peaks and troughs, without the profit motive corrupting.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
I think the ownership model is important as the greater the number, consent takes over from megalomania; and if that consent is passionate about the long term sustainability of the club they support; then that's surely preferable to what we currently have?
While that's true I haven't seen much evidence of City fans clamouring for long term sustainability being key to decision making. For example; see the constant sniping about not buying x players or trying to reduce the wage bill. Or even the hints at wanting Pressley out. Of course, these may be the minority view.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
In the past, undoubtedly. Do you not think we could learn from other peoples' mistakes?

No, unfortunately we're a Premier League Club/Sleeping Giant, etc. our fan-base wouldn't have the patience for fan ownership long term model.

It might be good for a season or two whilst the novelty is still there, then the fans will start to be impatient, and we know the rest...
 

Gary.j

New Member
No, unfortunately we're a Premier League Club/Sleeping Giant, etc. our fan-base wouldn't have the patience for fan ownership long term model.

It might be good for a season or two whilst the novelty is still there, then the fans will start to be impatient, and we know the rest...

The current situation has probably made many re-evaluate how they would like/accept the club to be run. I'd take long-term sustainability and realism any day.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
The current situation has probably made many re-evaluate how they would like/accept the club to be run. I'd take long-term sustainability and realism any day.

The problem is... that never lasts.

Exeter had more than reasonable fans, after enduring the odd convicted fraudster and Yuri Geller. Then, against the odds, Tisdale got them not just back into the league, but into our division too. When the board didn't spend money, there was an ever louder muttering from the fanbase that they weren't showing any ambition, they weren't looking to improve the club - this completely missed there was actually no money *to* improve the club!

So the fan-owned model saw tension, fan against fan. It saw the club start to lose its focus as a result, as the cry of those demanding marquee signings got louder. Where they are now is a bit shit... but is probably a damned site better than it could have been, had the board not resisted the babble in the background to the extent they did.

Ultimately, however, they're crippled by not having the capital to ride out a dip. Ultimately they have a choice of, do they accept falling down, maybe, back into non league or do they accept that to reach their general level (fair to say Exeter are a mid-lower bottom division team as the mean, occasionally going higher) then they need to abandon a fan-owned model?

It's the same issues the likes of Notts County, Mansfield, Lincoln etc. have found - in this country fan ownership works for firefighting, but the system isn't set up for long term. Wimbledon will be an interesting case study long term, as to whether a desire to move back to Wimbledon actually ends up putting too much pressure on the ownership structure.

Notts County are the extreme example of this, of course. They found themselves under financial pressure and also fan pressure, so sold to chancers with zero cash whatsoever, who nearly killed the club in so doing... the fan pressure wasn't happy with fan ownership and a struggle to survive.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
While that's true I haven't seen much evidence of City fans clamouring for long term sustainability being key to decision making. For example; see the constant sniping about not buying x players or trying to reduce the wage bill. Or even the hints at wanting Pressley out. Of course, these may be the minority view.

Is some of that due to owners saying one thing and doing another? Or dare I say it being economical around the true financial figures.

If fans were more involved, having access to the true figures and having a vote on decisions; Would that not make their expectations more realistic, would it not cultivate a desire for long term sustainability.

Local community funding and fan funding may bring a bit more pride and commitment back to the club?

Although I wouldn't suggest such a route is easy, I see no reason why it cannot work as a business model.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Although I wouldn't suggest such a route is easy, I see no reason why it cannot work as a business model.

The fact you have to speak of a football club in terms of a business model shows, to my eyes, why it just won't work.

To work, it needs refocussing of rules, regulations and various incentives so they're not about money. It needs a rebalancing so that clubs no longer live hand to mouth. We really should get to the stage where having £millions sat in the bank for a rainy day is not seen as a bad thing!

As we stand, it's constantly rolling the roulette wheel, and that always needs a benefactor in the background to hand out some more chips when you run out.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
The fact you have to speak of a football club in terms of a business model shows, to my eyes, why it just won't work.

To work, it needs refocussing of rules, regulations and various incentives so they're not about money. It needs a rebalancing so that clubs no longer live hand to mouth. We really should get to the stage where having £millions sat in the bank for a rainy day is not seen as a bad thing!

As we stand, it's constantly rolling the roulette wheel, and that always needs a benefactor in the background to hand out some more chips when you run out.

The reason football generally is in a mess is because it doesn't follow business models.....it relies on as you rightly say benefactors. There is no reason though why clubs cannot be run on strict budgets....Arsenal haven't faired too badly.

Clyde have survived, as well as being homeless and having no revenue streams from a rented stadium. A signed short term lease was their downfall way back in time. Unfortunately they have been long term victims of a nomadic existence.

If more and more clubs go this way then the playing field will level out. Many of the small Scottish clubs seem to have little choice but to go down this route.

Ultimately no business venture guarantees profit honey and roses, whether backed by rich benefactors or not.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
While that's true I haven't seen much evidence of City fans clamouring for long term sustainability being key to decision making. For example; see the constant sniping about not buying x players or trying to reduce the wage bill. Or even the hints at wanting Pressley out. Of course, these may be the minority view.

I think many fans live in a bubble of ignorance. It's only when faced with fortunes such as those we've experienced of late that fans wise up to the true sustainability of a club. Of course, our club has fans who hold extremes of views; but the vast majority get 'it'. Notwithstanding the obvious issue of playing in another town, and if we move the morality of our current owners aside for a moment, the last few years have seen a plethora of young talent breaking into the team. That's a glorious model, and eminently more sustainable than what we've done in previous times; brining in the Dean Holdsworths and Tim Sherwoods of the world
 
The ownership model is almost irrelevant in the current football world. Football is just not sustainable. Fan ownership would be nice but must be backed by serious capital and decision making must be objective to even begin to prosper.
The big clubs in germany are largely fan owned and sustainable.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest problems with fan ownership in this country is having to keep pace with the other teams who aren't fan owned and are quite happy to lose millions each year. Imagine if we were fan owned. Back at the Ricoh we should have a big enough fan base generating enough income to get us out of this division but then what? Do we stick around as a mid table championship side. How long before others get fed up of that and demand the cheque book comes out?
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest problems with fan ownership in this country is having to keep pace with the other teams who aren't fan owned and are quite happy to lose millions each year. Imagine if we were fan owned. Back at the Ricoh we should have a big enough fan base generating enough income to get us out of this division but then what? Do we stick around as a mid table championship side. How long before others get fed up of that and demand the cheque book comes out?

Surely is the vast majority understand that, and buy into it, you just stick to your guns. The shouty folk would surely be in the minority. It has to start with a decent academy - like Southampton or Crewe further down the leagues - feeding in talent at low cost; some of whom you'd want to keep. I think most fans are intelligent and understanding. It's just a case of honestly explaining what the parameters are. False hope, lies and being disingenuous are what builds more discontent in my view
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest problems with fan ownership in this country is having to keep pace with the other teams who aren't fan owned and are quite happy to lose millions each year. Imagine if we were fan owned. Back at the Ricoh we should have a big enough fan base generating enough income to get us out of this division but then what? Do we stick around as a mid table championship side. How long before others get fed up of that and demand the cheque book comes out?

Mid table championship?? We've be seasonal relegation candidates based on turnover.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Mid table championship?? We've be seasonal relegation candidates based on turnover.

Fag packet maths but if you take average attendance as a rough indication of income based on previous championship season we'd be around mid table. Of course it depends what you do wit the money but you get the idea. The point I'm making is would people stick around if there was practically zero chance of us getting above that level.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
What ownership model would you prefer?

I'd like for my club to be owned by a hedge fund with no interest in football and a woeful track record in expensive litigation..

Hold on a minute!
 

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