Think being a fan-owned club in England is easy? (2 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The ownership model is almost irrelevant in the current football world. Football is just not sustainable. Fan ownership would be nice but must be backed by serious capital and decision making must be objective to even begin to prosper.

17/18 Bundesliga clubs ran at a profit last season.

 

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[blend]

How about Chester FC doing quite well now re-born following liquidating in 2010........http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22053844

I would say they are certainly a success story and I know someone who follows them was devastated in 2010 and now says following them since they have been re-born has been the best time supporting them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

17/18 Bundesliga clubs ran at a profit last season.

Whereabouts in England is that?

 

[stupot07]

Fag packet maths but if you take average attendance as a rough indication of income based on previous championship season we'd be around mid table. Of course it depends what you do wit the money but you get the idea. The point I'm making is would people stick around if there was practically zero chance of us getting above that level.

Unfortunately our turnover was in the bottom 3-4 the season we got relegated despite having better attendances than 9-10 other teams.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Unfortunately our turnover was in the bottom 3-4 the season we got relegated despite having better attendances than 9-10 other teams.

Wasn't our wage bill something like 112% of turnover that season as well?

Yet many were demanding we spend more money.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Whereabouts in England is that?

So what if it's not in England? Clubs with majority fan shareholdings can be profitable and competitive. That doesn't mean 100% fan ownership and it's not an ownership structure that would be impossible to implement here.

 

[Hobo]

Barcalona seem to manage, their fans/members get a big say in running "their" club.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So what if it's not in England? Clubs with majority fan shareholdings can be profitable and competitive. That doesn't mean 100% fan ownership and it's not an ownership structure that would be impossible to implement here.

How are wages in England going to be brought down to German levels or how is revenue going to be increased to German levels?

You're posting on a board where the fans think it's wrong that the club are looking to move a highly paid player on.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

 

[shmmeee]

How are wages in England going to be brought down to German levels or how is revenue going to be increased to German levels?

You're posting on a board where the fans think it's wrong that the club are looking to move a highly paid player on.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

I think it'd be a bit different with open accounts and us not reducing our income massively. Also, a fan owned club probably wouldn't treat him how it appeared he was treated (although in hindsight maybe he wasn't).

 

[oldskyblue58]

Keep hearing about the German model being better but I don't actually know much about how it really works other than fans own 51%

so some questions
1) are all clubs 51% owned by the fans ?
2) what are the debt/ borrowing restrictions if any?
3) are fans involved in all decisions?
4) are the fans involved only in the AGM decisions?
5) what financial information is made available to fans - how when and how often?
6) are there any voting restrictions on the fans shares?
7) if not all clubs are 51% owned what is the correlation between success and fans ownership?
8) do the governing body rules differ greatly to our own?
9) is there any form of football creditors rule in Germany?
10) what is the main sources of income for the top division teams (ie whats the sponsorship money like compared to Premier League)
11) what is the debt burden held by German clubs?
12) do all the teams (and therefore the fans)own their own ground?
13) how much does it cost to buy a share in a German team and are shares available every year?
14) what are the salary levels like in Germany and what %age of turnover do they represent?
15) what are player transfer values internally?
16) what are attendances like compared to here?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Keep hearing about the German model being better but I don't actually know much about how it really works other than fans own 51%

so some questions
1) are all clubs 51% owned by the fans ?
2) what are the debt/ borrowing restrictions if any?
3) are fans involved in all decisions?
4) are the fans involved only in the AGM decisions?
5) what financial information is made available to fans - how when and how often?
6) are there any voting restrictions on the fans shares?
7) if not all clubs are 51% owned what is the correlation between success and fans ownership?
8) do the governing body rules differ greatly to our own?
9) is there any form of football creditors rule in Germany?
10) what is the main sources of income for the top division teams (ie whats the sponsorship money like compared to Premier League)
11) what is the debt burden held by German clubs?
12) do all the teams (and therefore the fans)own their own ground?
13) how much does it cost to buy a share in a German team and are shares available every year?
14) what are the salary levels like in Germany and what %age of turnover do they represent?
15) what are player transfer values internally?
16) what are attendances like compared to here?

!7) Is the beer better?

Can answer that one, most definitely yes.

 

[fernandopartridge]

!7) Is the beer better?

Can answer that one, most definitely yes.

I'm in. At least we could get some half decent ale in to make the football more palatable.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

 

[lordsummerisle]

I'm in. At least we could get some half decent ale in to make the football more palatable.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

Probably one of the things I miss most about Highfield Road is having a really good skinfull before the game in any amount of pubs around the ground.

Only seen us sober at The Ricoh, so a bit of a shock to the system to realise we were a bit shit really.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How are wages in England going to be brought down to German levels or how is revenue going to be increased to German levels?

You're posting on a board where the fans think it's wrong that the club are looking to move a highly paid player on.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

Revenues can be increased through fairer distribution of TV money (which is bigger in England than anywhere else) and higher attendances which you can get by introducing standing areas in the ground (cheaper tickets so more money to spend in the ground).

I don't have all the answers but from following, watching and talking to fans of clubs over there things seem a lot brighter. Put it this way-we wouldn't be in Northampton with 50+1.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Revenues can be increased through fairer distribution of TV money (which is bigger in England than anywhere else) and higher attendances which you can get by introducing standing areas in the ground (cheaper tickets so more money to spend in the ground).

I don't have all the answers but from following, watching and talking to fans of clubs over there things seem a lot brighter. Put it this way-we wouldn't be in Northampton with 50+1.

The fairer distribution thing is something we really need but won't happen. Only today are the Premier League cracking down on people posing Vines ffs.

As for higher attendances, sorry but I don't believe that standing is the answer. Cheaper tickets is but that won't happen until the biggest cost is addressed which is player wages.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The fairer distribution thing is something we really need but won't happen. Only today are the Premier League cracking down on people posing Vines ffs.

As for higher attendances, sorry but I don't believe that standing is the answer. Cheaper tickets is but that won't happen until the biggest cost is addressed which is player wages.

#CarlBakerDay #ClivePlattWeek #JohnGayleMonth

The whole ground isn't terraced I should've added. Standing is cheaper, you get more people in and the atmosphere is invariably better. Seating areas still remain for those who don't fancy standing.

The result of the German model is you have competitive, profitable and well supported clubs with generally happy fans and a strong national team. We have few of those at the moment.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Probably one of the things I miss most about Highfield Road is having a really good skinfull before the game in any amount of pubs around the ground.

Only seen us sober at The Ricoh, so a bit of a shock to the system to realise we were a bit shit really.

Lord,
Don't believe you went to the Ricoh without having a pint!!
Now that is a news headline lol