The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (15 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
By doing a really shit job on Brexit and Covid he has sent support for independence through the roof

Which maybe the case, but with the new brexit bill, it effectively takes away much of the SNPs powers and strengthens Westminsters grip on Scotland,As I said, Rightly or wrongly.
Besides brexit and our opinions of shit head Johnson... Sturgeon is a one trick pony that Scotland shouldn't blindly follow.
Internal market bill that's it

Either way, it's about time somebody put sturgeon back in her box... She's a clown
 

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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Which maybe the case, but with the new brexit bill, it effectively takes away much of the SNPs powers and strengthens Westminsters grip on Scotland,As I said, Rightly or wrongly.
Besides brexit and our opinions of shit head Johnson... Sturgeon is a one trick pony that Scotland shouldn't blindly follow.
Internal market bill that's it

Either way, it's about time somebody put sturgeon back in her box... She's a clown

If public opinion up there goes overwhelmingly in favour of it then Johnson would have to act like a dictator to deny them
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
If public opinion up there goes overwhelmingly in favour of it then Johnson would have to act like a dictator to deny them
The reality is, Scotland can't play up every 5 or 6 years and westminster bows to them...it's not going to happen.
Maybe sturgeon has done more damage than some want to admit, Westminster will make sure she doesn't get her vote for Many years yet.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The reality is, Scotland can't play up every 5 or 6 years and westminster bows to them...it's not going to happen.
Maybe sturgeon has done more damage than some want to admit, Westminster will make sure she doesn't get her vote for Many years yet.

Difference is they can't block an NI referendum unless they want to break the GFA, which admittedly isn't beyond them
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever
I read, although could be wrong that the Lords can only delay it for 1 year.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever

Not sure about that Salisbury-Addison is the convention that the Lords don't pass wrecking bills against government bills that are expressly indicated in the governments manifesto. It hasn't ever been used to make a government stick to their manifesto pledges.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Peston has been tipped off from a senior Tory that the Lords are going to kill this bill. The Salisbury-Addison Convention apparently means that they have to hold the Government to account on their election manifesto and the bill contradicts their not even a year old election manifesto.
#easiestdealever

The key word there is convention. It doesn’t carry legal weight. The government has a 80 seat majority to force the Internal Market Bill through the commons and potentially new legislation to deal with a non-compliant Lords. Which let’s not forget is an unelected house. The Lords can only defer legislation a couple of times.

Frankly, the Northern Ireland Protocol ought to be rewritten because it is messy for both the EU and the UK to govern. Won’t go into details, but I do quite a bit of customs work related to NI.

A backstop was certainly a simpler solution to the issue and probably less costly to the UK taxpayers.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
The key word there is convention. It doesn’t carry legal weight. The government has a 80 seat majority to force the Internal Market Bill through the commons and potentially new legislation to deal with a non-compliant Lords. Which let’s not forget is an unelected house. The Lords can only defer legislation a couple of times.

Frankly, the Northern Ireland Protocol ought to be rewritten because it is messy for both the EU and the UK to govern. Won’t go into details, but I do quite a bit of customs work related to NI.

A backstop was certainly a simpler solution to the issue and probably less costly to the UK taxpayers.

The Supreme Court is also likely to nix the bill anyway.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
The whole thing smells like a plan to try and force the hand of the EU

It's pretty silly then isn't it? Why don't they get it, it is not buying a car. It is trying to negotiate a withdrawal treaty that does not conflict with any of the EU's existing treaties. We are not going to get any special deals or exemptions unlike when we were a member.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
It's pretty silly then isn't it? Why don't they get it, it is not buying a car. It is trying to negotiate a withdrawal treaty that does not conflict with any of the EU's existing treaties. We are not going to get any special deals or exemptions unlike when we were a member.

It plays up for the brexiters though, I am beginning to suspect that no deal is what they want. Either that or they know their promised great deal is never going to happen so are laying the groundwork that will enable them to blame the EU for the shit storm the economy will become.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
The Supreme Court is also likely to nix the bill anyway.

It’s not that simple. In practice, once a legislation passes through parliament, only another act of parliament can reverse it. Our Supreme Court is not like it’s USA counterpart.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
See Pelosi has come out and said if the withdrawal agreement undermines the GFA the UK can forget about a US trade deal.

So it could prevent the opening up of the NHS?

Mind you, I'm sure if they knew there was money to be made they'd find a loophole round it.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
With the 'festival' where they're asking for creatives to come up with things to 'heal' the country...

As the entire point of Brexit has supposedly been to regain our sovereignty and control of our laws, why not have that celebration as geting parliament to use those powers to pass bills creating a fairer and more just society?

Would have far more effect on healing the country than Brexit: The Musical or the Withdrawal Agreement expressed through modern dance.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
It’s not that simple. In practice, once a legislation passes through parliament, only another act of parliament can reverse it. Our Supreme Court is not like it’s USA counterpart.

It can nix secondary legislation that is created from powers delegated by a primary and you can make an over whelming case to show that this is what this is.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I think we all know Johnson will just push for no deal rather than upset America

But the noise coming from the States is no deal with them if he undermines the GFA.
He's got himself in a bit of a pickle - or should that be Cummings has got him in a bit of a pickle?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
You do realise that no deal will upset America as it will necessitate a hard border in N.I. you can't have your cake and eat it

I think the government, if push came to shove, would say they won’t police the border and put the onus on the EU to police it, if at all. The issue here is that NI would be staging point for smuggling between the EU and the UK.

The issue is the customs border, because as things stand, the UK doesn’t want to police the sea border between NI and GB. Yet, the EU is policing that border on the island of Ireland.

The issue over the NI border would be taken to the WTO and so on. It is a mess.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
It plays up for the brexiters though, I am beginning to suspect that no deal is what they want. Either that or they know their promised great deal is never going to happen so are laying the groundwork that will enable them to blame the EU for the shit storm the economy will become.
Boris’ own sister said as much during the GE campaign. Something along the lines of Boris does not represent the voters he represents the disaster capitalist that have backed him to this point and a no deal Brexit suits them.
 
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Even ERG members are starting to criticise the bill. Got a feeling that this might not prove to be as easy as Cummings... err, sorry, Boris thinks it will be.
 
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chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Good news that we have an agreement in principle for a trade deal with Japan. Of course the devil will be in the detail in terms of what it gives us that last years EU - Japan deal lacked.
 

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