Grendel
Well-Known Member
And the vast majority of labour areas that voted remain were in the London Boroughs
don't oversimplify it -6 out of 10 Labour constituencies backed a Brexit - just behind 7 out of 10 Conservative.
some of those proposed a separate opt-out just for LondonAnd the vast majority of labour areas that voted remain were in the London Boroughs
Come off it. The fact that we had the referendum was the decision of one party.don't oversimplify it -6 out of 10 Labour constituencies backed a Brexit - just behind 7 out of 10 Conservative.
Come off it. The fact that we had the referendum was the decision of one party.
It should never have been put to the people. We have a representative democracy for a reason. If the consequences of their decision ever calm down enough for the country to return to relative normality maybe they can let the people vote on capital punishment for a bit more fun.
It was a decision of one party - that oddly won the election
There was a referendum in the 70’s as well. Should it have been out to the people then?
It’s an odd argument. If the party has a manifesto commitment to leave and it’s elected to parliament would you agree that we should leave then?
How can I explain to someone who doesn't want to understand?Explain.
Yet this is denied by some. Look at how many times I put a colour coded map up that showed what area voted leave and remain. A few still tried to deny it.don't oversimplify it -6 out of 10 Labour constituencies backed a Brexit - just behind 7 out of 10 Conservative.
Yet this is denied by some. Look at how many times I put a colour coded map up that showed what area voted leave and remain. A few still tried to deny it.
Up north voted leave. London and a few places down South voted remain. It was clear to see.It’s apples and oranges. Referendum votes don’t translate at all into constituency votes.
Marginal seats aren’t won by a majority and lots of people who don’t vote in GEs voted in the referendum.
It’s a fools game to try and translate it. Aside from anything else we’ve had an actual GE since then.
(Side note: I can’t be arsed to go back and check what started this conversation so not entirely sure what’s being argued)
Come off it. The fact that we had the referendum was the decision of one party.
It should never have been put to the people. We have a representative democracy for a reason. If the consequences of their decision ever calm down enough for the country to return to relative normality maybe they can let the people vote on capital punishment for a bit more fun.
obviously not. decision to hold a referendum passed through the Commons 544-53. not even close.I am saying that the responsibility for the shitstorm clusterfuck division of our country as it currently stands, is the fault of one party and one party only. It's not an argument. It is a statement.
If you think everything is great right now then there's not a lot I can say to you. What we don't need now is whataboutism and tribal bollocks. I'm really fucked off with all this.
Up north voted leave. London and a few places down South voted remain. It was clear to see.
It isn't an argument. There was a statement that Labour voters voted leave as a whole.
And yet again my post is highlighted yet the person who made the first post highlighting the fact never got a mention. Yet my posts are not supposed to be jumped on :shifty:
And in case for some reason some can't remember...
EU referendum: The result in maps and charts
How can I explain to someone who doesn't want to understand?
I will try once more with you.
I said what was in the poll. You asked me where I got it from although you had already looked at the poll. So I show you the poll again. So what do you do? You ask me to explain.
You are not thick. You know what is going on. You understand what is being said. But I have had enough of those who are looking for an argument. If you want to make out that you still don't understand I don't mind. I just won't reply to you again. Have had enough of idiots trying to pick arguments to derail any sort of debate.
Twisting words again?You have not understood what I said.
You claim that no one knows what they want. What you mean is that there is no majority for any particular solution. I and others know what we want, but we are not in a majority people’s vote is very popular but not the majority. Yet.
The blame game is tiresome. everyone needs to take their share.Twisting words again?
So where did I say nobody knows what they want?
I want and need us to stay in the EU. But lying and taking the piss out of those who want us to leave won't change anything. Taking the piss out of anyone won't change anything. And I am not prepared to act like a twat to get pats on the back. Wish I could say that for everyone.
Twisting words again?
So where did I say nobody knows what they want?
I want and need us to stay in the EU. But lying and taking the piss out of those who want us to leave won't change anything. Taking the piss out of anyone won't change anything. And I am not prepared to act like a twat to get pats on the back. Wish I could say that for everyone.
What makes me laugh is that there is always someone ready to defend whoever gets some part of the blame. It is as though nobody has any part of the blame.The blame game is tiresome. everyone needs to take their share.
Again it's fine but let's call out these remainers who backed the parliamentary vote for a referendum. Again 544 to 53. Wasn't 544 brexiteers in that vote.What makes me laugh is that there is always someone ready to defend whoever gets some part of the blame. It is as though nobody has any part of the blame.
To me the biggest part was by Cameron for offering a referendum if the Tories got voted back in. But there is a fair few more that have played their part.
The blame game is tiresome. everyone needs to take their share.
I haven't got a tin hat big enough to stop the bullshit hitting me if I mentioned it on here. You are only allowed to have a go at those who want to leave the EU and if you mention anything about anyone at all who wants to remain but won't speak the while truth it means you really want to leave.......Again it's fine but let's call out these remainers who backed the parliamentary vote for a referendum. Again 544 to 53. Wasn't 544 brexiteers in that vote.
Twisting words again?
So where did I say nobody knows what they want?
I want and need us to stay in the EU. But lying and taking the piss out of those who want us to leave won't change anything. Taking the piss out of anyone won't change anything. And I am not prepared to act like a twat to get pats on the back. Wish I could say that for everyone.
Twisting words again?
So where did I say nobody knows what they want?
I want and need us to stay in the EU. But lying and taking the piss out of those who want us to leave won't change anything. Taking the piss out of anyone won't change anything. And I am not prepared to act like a twat to get pats on the back. Wish I could say that for everyone.
Let me know when the petition gets passed 17.4 million.
Somehow I doubt it will, even though some people are bragging that they've signed it 10 times.
Explain what you said then if it wasn't twisting words. It is there for everyone to see.Accusing me of lying as usual. Twisting my words as usual. Not comprehending what I said as usual.
Not a Tory.Nah. You're not an idiot. I get that you're tory. I remember you and ashdown tag-teaming on gmk. At least you've let that nob go. This is more important than party politics imo.
All this shit has emboldened the racist arseholes. It's dredged up all those fucking idiots that had become too ashamed to actually vocalise their nonsense. And here we are.
Leavers were manipulated. There was no mention of no deal in any of the leave party's propaganda. Now it's all 'we voted for no deal'. Bollocks. But nobody will ever admit they were conned. So here we are.
So how do we progress?
Not a Tory.
Time spent involved working with politicians (of all political hues) at the beginning of my career put me off party politics. If you do back as far as gmk then you'll remember some of the stories.
Where do we go now? Somewhere we'll end up by default. Probably a fudge that nobody really wants but not enough really object to. Parliament hasn't a clue where we are going but really don't want a 2nd referendum in-out unless they can guarantee a clear result. Possibility of a people's vote on leave options more likely as politicians can shift the blame away from themselves and back onto the electorate.
Concern remains where we will end up. Going to be large angry sections of the voting public who will feel betrayed whichever way it goes. Platitudes will come from politicians about rebuilding trust which has been in consistent decline for many years anyway.
Idealistically the role of how Govt should be reexamined - hopefully to include a democratic second House, the use of the whipping system and more open govt as a whole. Fat chance.
Both the 2 main parties committed to respecting the referendum at last GE.It was a decision of one party - that oddly won the election
There was a referendum in the 70’s as well. Should it have been out to the people then?
It’s an odd argument. If the party has a manifesto commitment to leave and it’s elected to parliament would you agree that we should leave then?
For all the scorn of the Tory/libdem coalition what it did succeed in doing was have some success in moderating legislation and Govt.To that I would add PR instead of FPTP. Then you would have more parties to choose from and in a coalition system more views can be turned into policy. We must be almost unique with FPTP which wastes people’s votes. Even though I cannot stand Farage or UKIP, he did get millions of votes, but no seats. That is not fair on his voters.
ToryNot a Tory.
Explain what you said then if it wasn't twisting words. It is there for everyone to see.
And then there is a clamour to delay or revoke Article 50, & many saying we should not have been so quick to trigger it...this is the same Article 50 they voted in favour of triggering by a majority of just under 400!Again it's fine but let's call out these remainers who backed the parliamentary vote for a referendum. Again 544 to 53. Wasn't 544 brexiteers in that vote.
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