The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly. Popular policies that are clearly marked as Corbyns.
Not rejected when people find out they are Corbyn's.

When explicitly linked to Labour they are less popular. Osborne’s lies from 2010 still having an effect

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...a-policies-labour_uk_57fe651be4b0010a7f3da76b

Labour's manifesto policies are popular but they won't determine who wins the election

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course you do.

So are you saying that Corbyn is the best Labour has?

I know that all you do is disagree with what I say unless you agree with it clearly. Then you don't mention it in the slightest. If I mention anyone at all you will just take the piss.

GIVE ME A NAME

 

[tisza]

No you are, unless I’ve misread. Thought you were talking about an abandoning of the centre when surely the centre is where preferred policies lie

Not at all. Nobody is going to move too far from the centre as it's electoral suicide.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I guarantee that a lot of the people that support Corbyn haven't a clue what his policies (today) are or why they agree with them...other than to keep/get the Tories out

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Pay increases for teachers in line with inflation

Renationalising trains and utilities

Tuition free education

Explain which of these is hard left

 

[martcov]

Raises the question of whether Brexit was ever going to work. Politicians wanting to ‘honour the will of the people’ but knowing the country will be worse off as a consequence. Almost like putting it to a referendum was fucking stupid.

The Brexit minister said we are going to take an economic hit, but he prefers that to not honoring the referendum. How stupid is that? It’s the government‘s job to ensure that we don’t take economic hits. If Brexit is a mistake, which he in effect just said, then say sorry, but we cannot knowingly inflict harm on the country. Give it back to the people to say whether, with this knowledge, they want to take an economic hit or not. If they do, fair enough.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not at all. Nobody is going to move too far from the centre as it's electoral suicide.

So why do the Tories get away with it every cycle

Because nobody reads the manifesto and believes the poshos

 

[martcov]

Not at all. Nobody is going to move too far from the centre as it's electoral suicide.

Brexit is a right wing idea and the right are intent on seeing it through. Let’s hope that if it goes ahead, the right wingers get hammered.

 

[Astute]

It's not about been right or wrong and it's not about Corbyn, for me it's about his policies.
There is no one waiting in the wings, with more charisma, with better leadership skills to promote those policies, so it's him or no-one.

Of course the thing most people miss is the negative press he gets is down to one particular policy specifically and it's why they'll constantly hound him - Leverson 2.

So how about as far back as yesterday when he walked out of a very important meeting because an ex Labour MP was invited?

It isn't bad press. It is bad decisions.

 

[Astute]

So why do the Tories get away with it every cycle

Because nobody reads the manifesto and believes the poshos

Very easy.

Name the last decent Labour leader. I go back as far as John Smith. How about you?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Very easy.

Name the last decent Labour leader. I go back as far as John Smith. How about you?

Blair won 3 in a row with one hell of a spin doctor.

Still can’t name any Corbyn replacements? I’ll kick off

Keir Starmer

 

[Astute]

When explicitly linked to Labour they are less popular. Osborne’s lies from 2010 still having an effect

Labour's manifesto policies are popular but they won't determine who wins the election

And your link seems to agree with me.

 

[Astute]

Blair won 3 in a row with one hell of a spin doctor.

Still can’t name any Corbyn replacements? I’ll kick off

Keir Starmer

This will be fun. When I got asked before I got ripped to bits for naming Starmer. Now we can see how honest some are on here as if they are they will also rip you to bits for naming him.

But of course it won't happen.

 

[tisza]

When explicitly linked to Labour they are less popular. Osborne’s lies from 2010 still having an effect

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...a-policies-labour_uk_57fe651be4b0010a7f3da76b

Labour's manifesto policies are popular but they won't determine who wins the election

So it's still the same issue individual policies maybe popular regardless of whose they are.
People vote for a total group of policies rather individual ones.
Don't think many Agreed with university fees for example but it wasn't enough on its own to deter voters.
Every party has vote winners and vote losers. We'd all like the best education, health etc and low taxes difficult to put all 3 together.
Is the argument as simple as getting an attractive, media savvy personality to lead a party in order to get policies across and parties elected?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This will be fun. When I got asked before I got ripped to bits for naming Starmer. Now we can see how honest some are on here as if they are they will also rip you to bits for naming him.

But of course it won't happen.

When did you name him? Will you now take back the idea that I refuse to discuss replacements?

 

[Astute]

Blair won 3 in a row with one hell of a spin doctor.

Still can’t name any Corbyn replacements? I’ll kick off

Keir Starmer

Bliar won because John Smith sorted out the Labour party just before he sadly unexpectedly passed away. Then Bliar used Tory policies.

 

[Astute]

When did you name him? Will you now take back the idea that I refuse to discuss replacements?

I will say we agree with someone.

Would you like to guess what page I named him on?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So it's still the same issue individual policies maybe popular regardless of whose they are.
People vote for a total group of policies rather individual ones.
Don't think many Agreed with university fees for example but it wasn't enough on its own to deter voters.
Every party has vote winners and vote losers. We'd all like the best education, health etc and low taxes difficult to put all 3 together.
Is the argument as simple as getting an attractive, media savvy personality to lead a party in order to get policies across and parties elected?

Seems to me like the whole bundle of policies is popular. More to the point they are mainstream in some parts of Europe.

Throw that against Tory pledges to deny teachers a pay rise, reinstate a 3 tier education system, grant above inflation increases to military funding etc

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bliar won because John Smith sorted out the Labour party just before he sadly unexpectedly passed away. Then Bliar used Tory policies.

How did he win the next 2

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I will say we agree with someone.

Would you like to guess what page I named him on?

Certainly wasn’t recent as it’s like drawing blood from a stone with you

 

[Astute]

Certainly wasn’t recent as it’s like drawing blood from a stone with you

Here is a post from a different thread from me

QUOTE="Astute, post: 1347269, member: 2627"]I know that we are not going to see it the same way. But the way I see it is Labour should have won. Two elections ago the Tories had to jump into bed with the Lib Dems. And that was with Labour having a leader that wasn't trusted by anyone. Brown couldn't even smile in a nice way. The Bliar days were over. He knew that so walked before he was pushed. So bye bye Brown...... So then we got Ed Miliband. Not much better than a wet fart. No charisma. No idea. But the Tories still only just crossed the line with a majority. Lots of Lib Dems had deserted their party for getting into bed with the Tories. They are not Tory voters. But we didn't have a leader to take advantage. Close call but the Tories scraped home. So somehow we end up with Corbyn. He only got put forward at the last minute to make the leadership race look competitive. He was a 200/1 shot. But there was a call on the internet to pay £3 so you could vote him in. Corbyn becomes leader. Labour support goes downhill after Corbyn becomes leader. But as the election comes closer reality hits home. And to help a lot of younger voters register and vote for Labour. But the Tories still nearly made the majority. There has been years of austerity which is the norm with a Tory government. They were ready for the taking. Labour wasn't ready with a strong leader yet again though. I can't see this coalition working. May should walk. But if she does they will put someone in place that will do a better job. They will turn up next time on TV. They will put more effort in. They will have a manifesto that people will vote for. Whereas Labour will have Corbyn. He tried his best. But it only reduced the Tories seats by 12. Yet Corbyn celebrated a victory. I don't want a leader that celebrates losing. I want a leader that can celebrate a win. What is needed is a leader like Starmer. Someone honest and likeable. Someone with a lot of experience in life. He didn't become an MP for the money. He is respected away from politics. No skeletons in the closet. Labour should get a landslide victory with him. A proper victory to celebrate.[/QUOTE]

 

[Sick Boy]

This will be fun. When I got asked before I got ripped to bits for naming Starmer. Now we can see how honest some are on here as if they are they will also rip you to bits for naming him.

But of course it won't happen.

Go on then, who ‘ripped you’?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Here is a post from a different thread from me

QUOTE="Astute, post: 1347269, member: 2627"]I know that we are not going to see it the same way. But the way I see it is Labour should have won. Two elections ago the Tories had to jump into bed with the Lib Dems. And that was with Labour having a leader that wasn't trusted by anyone. Brown couldn't even smile in a nice way. The Bliar days were over. He knew that so walked before he was pushed. So bye bye Brown...... So then we got Ed Miliband. Not much better than a wet fart. No charisma. No idea. But the Tories still only just crossed the line with a majority. Lots of Lib Dems had deserted their party for getting into bed with the Tories. They are not Tory voters. But we didn't have a leader to take advantage. Close call but the Tories scraped home. So somehow we end up with Corbyn. He only got put forward at the last minute to make the leadership race look competitive. He was a 200/1 shot. But there was a call on the internet to pay £3 so you could vote him in. Corbyn becomes leader. Labour support goes downhill after Corbyn becomes leader. But as the election comes closer reality hits home. And to help a lot of younger voters register and vote for Labour. But the Tories still nearly made the majority. There has been years of austerity which is the norm with a Tory government. They were ready for the taking. Labour wasn't ready with a strong leader yet again though. I can't see this coalition working. May should walk. But if she does they will put someone in place that will do a better job. They will turn up next time on TV. They will put more effort in. They will have a manifesto that people will vote for. Whereas Labour will have Corbyn. He tried his best. But it only reduced the Tories seats by 12. Yet Corbyn celebrated a victory. I don't want a leader that celebrates losing. I want a leader that can celebrate a win. What is needed is a leader like Starmer. Someone honest and likeable. Someone with a lot of experience in life. He didn't become an MP for the money. He is respected away from politics. No skeletons in the closet. Labour should get a landslide victory with him. A proper victory to celebrate.

[/QUOTE]

I agree with the reasons for Starmer-didn’t read the post at the time. Which is why I mentioned him here.

 

[Astute]

How did he win the next 2

Are you denying his Tory policies

 

[skybluetony176]

The EU had red lines too. That's how 'negotiate' a deal works. If there is no overlap at all between them - then negotiation, as we appear to be seeing from this fiasco, is pointless

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

May has refused point blank to renegotiate her red lines either with our sovereign parliament or the EU. Where’s her negotiation?

 

[Grendel]

Do you still think Jezza is involved in a child abuse cover up because you read it in the Telegraph?

I was responding to a poster who said may covered up an abuse scandal. To my knowledge that is a criminal offence so I don’t think I believe that either

 

[Astute]

I agree with the reasons for Starmer-didn’t read the post at the time. Which is why I mentioned him here.[/QUOTE]
If I would have mentioned him first the normal crew that reword what I say would have told you how bad he is.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Are you denying his Tory policies

Absolutely not but if we are judging ‘good’ as successful he was the most successful of all time

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree with the reasons for Starmer-didn’t read the post at the time. Which is why I mentioned him here.

If I would have mentioned him first the normal crew that reword what I say would have told you how bad he is.[/QUOTE]

Maybe not-it’s a paranoid assumption and I think I’ve shown I’m open to the debate be it Starmer or anyone else. I want Labour in so that these policies get rolled out-don’t really care who it is

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was responding to a poster who said may covered up an abuse scandal. To my knowledge that is a criminal offence so I don’t think I believe that either

Points on May aside you were bullshitting

 

[Grendel]

Points on May aside you were bullshitting

No I was quoting a source I can quote others if you wish

I don’t think Mr Corbyn took action against the story did he?

 

[Astute]

Absolutely not but if we are judging ‘good’ as successful he was the most successful of all time

It was a joint thing between Smith making the Labour party good again and policies from the Tories. Once people saw through him he got out.

 

[Sick Boy]

It was a joint thing between Smith making the Labour party good again and policies from the Tories. Once people saw through him he got out.

I’ve always thought that England is a country that is conservative with a small c. It’s hard to believe a true Labour leader would be able to become PM

 

[Astute]

Maybe not-it’s a paranoid assumption and I think I’ve shown I’m open to the debate be it Starmer or anyone else. I want Labour in so that these policies get rolled out-don’t really care who it is

Paranoid?

Why is it the same posters jump on nearly every post even if it is in line with what they would like to see? That is why I ignore them most of the time. Sometimes I press the show ignored content tab so I can see what someone has replied to. But all it ever does is get them on my back again.

I am only here for the debate. I am not on here for idiots to constantly take shots at me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ve always thought that England is a country that is conservative with a small c. It’s hard to believe a true Labour leader would be able to become PM

Social attitude surveys show very little difference between England and Scotland

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Paranoid?

Why is it the same posters jump on nearly every post even if it is in line with what they would like to see? That is why I ignore them most of the time. Sometimes I press the show ignored content tab so I can see what someone has replied to. But all it ever does is get them on my back again.

I am only here for the debate. I am not on here for idiots to constantly take shots at me.

You avoided it because you assumed I wouldn’t engage. I can and will