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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,111
tisza said:
any Brexit deal gets passed in Parliament is not going to go to a referendum.
Click to expand...

Of course it isn’t
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,112
tisza said:
any Brexit deal gets passed in Parliament is not going to go to a referendum.
Click to expand...

That wasn’t my point at all?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,113
Grendel said:
Most tories voted to remain - it’s a small minority that didn’t
Click to expand...

We have a minority government so the Tories need to keep the bloc of Brexiteer MPs they have.

Again, a soft Brexit isn’t even on the table and even if it was, I’d say I agree with the argument that it isn’t exactly what the people who voted Leave had in mind. To me, a soft Brexit is worse than remaining, but I could live with it.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,114
Grendel said:
Most tories voted to remain - it’s a small minority that didn’t
Click to expand...

Based on what?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,115
Sick Boy said:
Based on what?
Click to expand...

Er most tories in parliament are pro Europe? It’s only a small proportion that’s ever been opposed
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,116
Grendel said:
Er most tories in parliament are pro Europe? It’s only a small proportion that’s ever been opposed
Click to expand...
Ahh thought you were on about voters
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 17, 2019
  • #33,117
Grendel said:
Er most tories in parliament are pro Europe? It’s only a small proportion that’s ever been opposed
Click to expand...
What data are you using for that? Thought it was about 175 that campaigned for remain.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,118
Astute said:
So why would you do anything differently? Been listening to Mart and SB?

We haven't left the EU. We won't be leaving this month without a deal. The EU said hardly anything would change for at least a year if we did leave for their benefit not ours.

So why ask these questions?
Click to expand...

What have I said on the subject? Apart from possible problems for UK airlines flying inside the EU as in my link. I haven’t mentioned private driving licenses or visas being a problem as I don’t think they are, at least for this year.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,119
The plot thickens. Where do we go from here?

Speaker rules out Brexit vote on same motion

So May cannot try again in parliament with the same deal.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,120
PM’s spokesman: “The Speaker did not forewarn us of the content of his statement or the fact that he was making one.”
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,121
May trying the same sort of things the EU are accused of doing strangely enough
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and shmmeee
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,122
SkyBlueDom26 said:
That speaker is the biggest twat going, should have remain painted on his forehead

He needs to realize he isn't 'PM'
Click to expand...

Much like Bill Cash eh...?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,123
Otis said:
The plot thickens. Where do we go from here?

Speaker rules out Brexit vote on same motion

So May cannot try again in parliament with the same deal.
Click to expand...
Makes sense
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,124
fernandopartridge said:
May trying the same sort of things the EU are accused of doing strangely enough
Click to expand...
You mean they are both doing the same thing?

All these cosy chats between them. May says she has a new deal. Then the EU says nothing has changed. Time has about run out. EU offers a long extension of between 2 and 4 years. We accept it. And during this long extension we end up remaining in the EU in everything but name. Or we end up remaining.

Leaving and having no ties with the EU isn't going to happen now.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,125
Astute said:
Leaving and having no ties with the EU isn't going to happen now.
Click to expand...
That was never going to happen.
 
Reactions: bezzer, fernandopartridge, martcov and 2 others

tommydazzle

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,126
Otis said:
The plot thickens. Where do we go from here?

Speaker rules out Brexit vote on same motion

So May cannot try again in parliament with the same deal.
Click to expand...
Think it goes to penalties?
 
Reactions: Astute and Sky Blue Pete

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,127
Otis said:
The plot thickens. Where do we go from here?

Speaker rules out Brexit vote on same motion

So May cannot try again in parliament with the same deal.
Click to expand...

good news
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,128
Essentially there is now a choice of no deal or a long extension and taking part in the European elections
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,129
Captain Dart said:
PM’s spokesman: “The Speaker did not forewarn us of the content of his statement or the fact that he was making one.”
Click to expand...

Bollocks.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 18, 2019
  • #33,130
Captain Dart said:
PM’s spokesman: “The Speaker did not forewarn us of the content of his statement or the fact that he was making one.”
Click to expand...

There was a motion to stop a third attempt. It was withdrawn because it was the job of the speaker to rule. The speaker said he would rule on it. It is a 400 year convention. He has made a preliminary ruling with 2 days warning before the proposed vote. Every one knew that as it was said in parliament.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,131
SIR ERNIE said:
good news
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. May goes to EU to ask for extension to avoid no deal.

EU says yes as long as it includes people’s vote.

Labour says it will accept May‘s deal with amendment that includes it will be put to a vote at the people‘s vote.

May’s deal is accepted with the amendment and with the help of labour votes.

May goes back to the people with the questions: 1. remain or leave and then 2. if we leave, do we leave via the only deal on the table ( May‘s deal ), or no deal? Votes only count when both questions answered.

I can’t see anything more democratic than that.

The ERG and their fans are frightened of a people’s vote, which acknowledges that the will of the people is against Brexit. The mood has changed. The „we won, get over it“, is now „ for god‘s sake don’t let the people have a vote“.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,132
tommydazzle said:
Think it goes to penalties?
Click to expand...

That’s England screwed then. I don’t know about Scotland and Northern Ireland though.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,133
Deleted member 5849 said:
Much like Bill Cash eh...?
Click to expand...

Funnily enough the speaker is following a 400 year tradition of a sovereign parliament. Not surprised at all at the rage of poorly educated/ ill informed leavers. I thought one of the main reasons for leaving , apart from immigration ( dislike of foreigners), was sovereignty. Bercow is applying the rules of a sovereign parliament.

Maybe it was just dislike of foreigners after all?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,134
Sick Boy said:
Essentially there is now a choice of no deal or a long extension and taking part in the European elections
Click to expand...

May‘s deal with an amendment that it has to be ratified by the people, against a remain option and a no deal option.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,135
martcov said:
Funnily enough the speaker is following a 400 year tradition of a sovereign parliament. Not surprised at all at the rage of poorly educated/ ill informed leavers. I thought one of the main reasons for leaving , apart from immigration ( dislike of foreigners), was sovereignty. Bercow is applying the rules of a sovereign parliament.

Maybe it was just dislike of foreigners after all?
Click to expand...

It's a dislike of foreigners running a country they neither live nor work in.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,136
Deleted member 5849 said:
That was never going to happen.
Click to expand...
Read this thread again and you will see that it wasn't the thought on what would happen by many. Not even recently.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,137
dutchman said:
It's a dislike of foreigners running a country they neither live nor work in.
Click to expand...
There is a dislike throughout Europe on how they rule all the countries in the EU. Even the deniers know this is the case. That is why they all call for reform. But there won't be reform as they hold all the power and only promote others to the top jobs that have the same ideals.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,138
Astute said:
There is a dislike throughout Europe on how they rule all the countries in the EU. Even the deniers know this is the case. That is why they all call for reform. But there won't be reform as they hold all the power and only promote others to the top jobs that have the same ideals.
Click to expand...

If the UK leaves there are many who say reforms will be easier for the EU to get through. You keep on about people wanting reforms as if everyone wants the same reforms and an evil body is stopping the reforms. People want different reforms. To get reforms passed you need a majority, or in some cases, a unanimous decision because of veto rights. It is called democracy. Without the UK‘s veto rights, it may be easier to introduce things like a fiscal union, or an European army, should they be wanted by the rest of the EU.

Apropos top jobs: Any comments on May‘s appointment of her loyal lieutenant as head of the UK civil service? Thought not.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,139
dutchman said:
It's a dislike of foreigners running a country they neither live nor work in.
Click to expand...

We are part of the decision making process of EU law. Other EU countries could use that argument about the UK being involved. It is called pooling sovereignty. The EU doesn’t rule the UK, there is a sovereign parliament. There are foreigners at the UN, other foreigners have signed up with us to the Geneva convention, others will defend us if we are attacked via NATO and we have less influence in the foreigner dominated WTO than in the EU. Funny that the only foreigners you don’t like being involved with are our biggest trading partner and our closest allies in the fight against international crime.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,140
dutchman said:
It's a dislike of foreigners running a country they neither live nor work in.
Click to expand...

Leavers when asked cited immigration and sovereignty as the two main reasons for voting leave. Wanting less foreigners suggests you don’t like having too many foreigners around. Seeing as leavers also blame foreigners for everything from crime to potholes, lack of affordable housing etc, I get the impression that a dislike of foreigners was a strong motivation for leave voters.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,141
Captain Dart said:
PM’s spokesman: “The Speaker did not forewarn us of the content of his statement or the fact that he was making one.”
Click to expand...
Sky reported it 30 minutes before statement made in the House
 
Reactions: martcov

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,142
dutchman said:
It's a dislike of foreigners running a country they neither live nor work in.
Click to expand...

I’m not a fan of Russian interference either, but it looks like the referendum result will stand

 
Reactions: Sick Boy and skybluetony176

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,143
martcov said:
Yes indeed. May goes to EU to ask for extension to avoid no deal.

EU says yes as long as it includes people’s vote.

Labour says it will accept May‘s deal with amendment that includes it will be put to a vote at the people‘s vote.

May’s deal is accepted with the amendment and with the help of labour votes.

May goes back to the people with the questions: 1. remain or leave and then 2. if we leave, do we leave via the only deal on the table ( May‘s deal ), or no deal? Votes only count when both questions answered.

I can’t see anything more democratic than that.

The ERG and their fans are frightened of a people’s vote, which acknowledges that the will of the people is against Brexit. The mood has changed. The „we won, get over it“, is now „ for god‘s sake don’t let the people have a vote“.
Click to expand...

We've already had a peoples vote, no thanks
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,144
SkyBlueDom26 said:
We've already had a peoples vote, no thanks
Click to expand...

Doesn’t that also apply to the previous referendum that kept us in Europe?

Can we not have one that hasn’t been corrupted by foreign powers and rich dickheads?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, skybluetony176 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,145
SkyBlueDom26 said:
We've already had a peoples vote, no thanks
Click to expand...

Not on no deal or May’s deal, or on what we now know about Brexit.
 
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