I think you are missing the point. We have suddenly a sign that takes us from 'take it or leave it' territory.
Slagging the tories is all very well, but what about Labour? All they want to do is get into Government & are manipulating Brexit as best they can to do so!
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One of the things needs clearing up is that Brussels unilaterally decided after Brexit how to interpret Article 50. The part about the framework of future relations with EU was expected to include trade. Nothing in Article 50 that says trade is excluded from future framework agreements.Brexit is a disaster. It is not what was promised. It cannot make us better off under no deal or May‘s deal.
All that is left is clutching at straws in the hope that somehow it won’t be a total disaster and/ or finding people to blame. Labour, remainers, the EU, people who don’t believe enough.., whatever. The people I blame are the people who sold this idea of leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world without a „business plan“ or a concept of how leave should take form.
One of the things needs clearing up is that Brussels unilaterally decided after Brexit how to interpret Article 50. The part about the framework of future relations with EU was expected to include trade. Nothing in Article 50 that says trade is excluded from future framework agreements.
The EU were lax pre-referendum as there was a complacency that the remain vote would win albeit by a small majority. Let's not forget the backlash from many member states against Brussels for not doing enough to encourage UK to vote remain.
Brexit process maybe a bit of a disaster but no-one can judge the actual Brexit until all talks/treaties/deals are concluded.
Why don’t you ask our crack negotiators who said it would be the easiest deal in history.
Nope. History will revisit the facts of how there was a cross party support for Brexit, how 2 major parties promised to respect outcome of referendum, why a remainer was put in charge of a Brexit party, how people misjudged what they though would be a remain vote, why there was such a lack of consensus on Brexit targets and how the oppostion were still prepared to deliver a Brexit on their own terms, were parties putting self-interest ahead of the popular vote and was Brexit the final nail in a Conservative party coffin.It’s hardly ‘a blink’ it’s more the EU trying to find a solution despite the incompetence of the UK government.
Nice attempt at a deflection onto Labour there too. Brexit is a mess that the Tory’s will be forever associated with.
True but it will beOne of the things needs clearing up is that Brussels unilaterally decided after Brexit how to interpret Article 50. The part about the framework of future relations with EU was expected to include trade. Nothing in Article 50 that says trade is excluded from future framework agreements.
The EU were lax pre-referendum as there was a complacency that the remain vote would win albeit by a small majority. Let's not forget the backlash from many member states against Brussels for not doing enough to encourage UK to vote remain.
Brexit process maybe a bit of a disaster but no-one can judge the actual Brexit until all talks/treaties/deals are concluded.
Nope. History will revisit the facts of how there was a cross party support for Brexit, how 2 major parties promised to respect outcome of referendum, why a remainer was put in charge of a Brexit party, how people misjudged what they though would be a remain vote, why there was such a lack of consensus on Brexit targets and how the oppostion were still prepared to deliver a Brexit on their own terms, were parties putting self-interest ahead of the popular vote and was Brexit the final nail in a Conservative party coffin.
Name a credible leaver who’d have gone about it better then? It’s strange how they’re the biggest blowhards but never actually have any firm suggestions and all go into hiding. Or perhaps the whole thing just isn’t workable.
It’s hardly ‘a blink’ it’s more the EU trying to find a solution despite the incompetence of the UK government.
Nice attempt at a deflection onto Labour there too. Brexit is a mess that the Tory’s will be forever associated with.
No - Labour promised a referendum but never delivered it.Labour didn’t call the referendum without a plan B
Labour didn’t fuck up negotiations for 3 years
But yes it is Labour’s fault for Brexit being shit. Funnily enough it is the objective of the opposition party to get into government
One of the things needs clearing up is that Brussels unilaterally decided after Brexit how to interpret Article 50. The part about the framework of future relations with EU was expected to include trade. Nothing in Article 50 that says trade is excluded from future framework agreements.
The EU were lax pre-referendum as there was a complacency that the remain vote would win albeit by a small majority. Let's not forget the backlash from many member states against Brussels for not doing enough to encourage UK to vote remain.
Brexit process maybe a bit of a disaster but no-one can judge the actual Brexit until all talks/treaties/deals are concluded.
It is a blink, because last week the deal twice voted down was the only option other than no deal according to all voices in the EU. Not any longer it seems.
No attempt at deflection either. Labour ARE the only other option to seek a deal for Brexit. And they have been complicit in creating the mess.
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It was a double edged sword. Gone against Brexit and could easily handed Tories a general election majority big enough to pass what they wanted.Complicit? The biggest complaint I have against Labour, is not having the balls to call Brexit for what it is, detrimental to the UK working class and middle class.
Bollocks to Brexit.
It was a double edged sword. Gone against Brexit and could easily handed Tories a general election majority big enough to pass what they wanted.
no. last election.if Labour gone against Brexit too many marginals with high leave vote.Yes, i realise that it may yet result in stopping Brexit when it is clear that everything else has failed and there is no way out for the Tories but to admit defeat and call an election. But it is frustrating.
No - Labour promised a referendum but never delivered it.
I have not blamed Labour in solitary for the mess. Plus, whilst yes to get into Govt is rightly an I objective for the opposition - the method should not be to be ruinous to the nation as a whole.
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treaty of lisbonWhen did Labour promise a referendum and not deliver it?
Name them then.I’m calling out your inaccurate sweeping statements.
Stop playing the victim, as usual.
I don't disagree. But what I do disagree with is those who try to gloss over the faults with the EU whilst constantly having a go at anything to do with Brexit.I don’t disagree with either sentiment. The problem is we are very unlikely to get a world full of honest and selfless politicians so we must ask are the imperfections tolerable.
In my view the EU’s are less deep rooted than our own.
I don't disagree. But what I do disagree with is those who try to gloss over the faults with the EU whilst constantly having a go at anything to do with Brexit.
Brexit is shit. But that doesn't mean anyone should only look at one side. It doesn't mean others with different views are idiots.
t
treaty of lisbon
Name them then.
You are not calling out any statement I have made. You are making out I have made one but not saying what it is.
Just like recently when I said Brexit wasn't going to happen this month. What was your reply?
Yes IF.Don't think even Mart has done that. It's not the views being different that makes me think someone stupid, it's the view being stupid. If you voted Brexit because of immigration, you're ignoring that most comes from outside the EU and that we have just not exercised our ability to send immigrants back
where do you think the roots of Brexit started?Which has got what to do with causing a Brexit shitfest?
I said it would go to the last minute. Then to get a deal the EU would finally start to talk. But it won't happen now as a no deal is off the table.Hahaha! That is one hell of a deflection...can you name those countries yet?
You also said the EU would cave in due to the UK buying wine and cheese and they needed us more etc etc
So you don't read what he says then.Don't think even Mart has done that.
I said it would go to the last minute. Then to get a deal the EU would finally start to talk. But it won't happen now as a no deal is off the table.
I suppose you knew that no deal would be taken off the table.
Blair promised twice...but didn't delivert
treaty of lisbon
tbf Cameron promised to as well.Blair promised twice...but didn't deliver
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Numerous?You’ve put forward numerous outcomes, so one of them has to be correct, I suppose.
Not going to tell us about the tap water then?
I don't disagree. But what I do disagree with is those who try to gloss over the faults with the EU whilst constantly having a go at anything to do with Brexit.
Brexit is shit. But that doesn't mean anyone should only look at one side. It doesn't mean others with different views are idiots.
Yes IF.
But if you believed what is said on here everyone who voted to leave was because of immigration.
Or does over half the population of the UK want to stop immigration?
So what have I said to do with this?It means you can pick faults with an organisation coordinating 28 different countries, but they don’t justify leaving and trying to go it alone.... without even agreement on how to do it. It would be more sensible to have a say in improving the EU and not having this nightmare.
All leavers?It was quoted by leavers as a major reason. Do you think they Lied?
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