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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (42 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,881
Grendel said:
You would not be breaking a UN treaty and it’s covered by an option in the Treaty - the uk could legitimately not enforce it and therefore it would be the Eu enforcing it
Click to expand...

Again, it wouldn’t do the UK’s standing any good.

You’d also be allowing banned goods to enter the EU and showing open disrespect after the UK going on about being shown respect.

There’d also be numerous issues of illegal immigration into the UK.

It really would not do the UK’s standing any good at all.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,882
Grendel said:
The French disputes are not to do with poverty
Click to expand...
But they are. That is why Macron has given so much away.

The problem is he won't give back what he has taken away.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,883
Grendel said:
The French dispute is because Macron is symbolic of EU rule. Worship the rich abd ensure they get richer while squeezing the middle classes to pay for it
Click to expand...

Yeah because the people of Brexit like Rees Mogg, Farage, Patel et al are all about making the poorest’s lives so much better and sorting out inequality.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, skybluetony176 and martcov

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,884
Sick Boy said:
Again, it wouldn’t do the UK’s standing any good.

You’d also be allowing banned goods to enter the EU and showing open disrespect after the UK going on about being shown respect.

There’d also be numerous issues of illegal immigration into the UK.

It really would not do the UK’s standing any good at all.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. Also were you not championing the course of a Scottish referendum?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,885
Sick Boy said:
Yeah because the people of Brexit like Rees Mogg, Farage, Patel et al are all about making the poorest’s lives so much better and sorting out inequality.
Click to expand...


Macrons policies are supporting the rich - do you agree?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,886
Grendel said:
Nonsense. Also were you not championing the course of a Scottish referendum?
Click to expand...

If that’s what they wish to pursue then it’s their choice.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,887
Grendel said:
No it’s not about many things at all and yes the specifically demanded concessions
Click to expand...
It is about many things. But it is mainly fuel tax rises that gets the headlines because it affects just about everyone. The workers rights removed involves millions less. Increased tax involved a lot so some has been given back. But he took off those who already couldn't afford to live. And with the fuel rises they couldn't afford to get to work. Millions of the jobs are in areas the rich have taken over. But the poorer people had to move away. So the rich don't need a car as they have the good transport links. The poorer have no choice but to drive in.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,888
Grendel said:
Macrons policies are supporting the rich - do you agree?
Click to expand...

I don’t know enough about them. And I’m particularly a fan of his, not sure what’s given you the impression I could be.

What makes the likes of RM, Johnson and Patel any different? Do you genuinely believe they wish to make the poor’s lives better through Brexit?

You go on about the EU being setup for the rich, it sounds like you’ll be voting for Corbyn next.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,889
Grendel said:
The French dispute is because Macron is symbolic of EU rule. Worship the rich abd ensure they get richer while squeezing the middle classes to pay for it
Click to expand...
Yes that is why many are taking part. But there are many reasons for many people.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,890
Sick Boy said:
If that’s what they wish to pursue then it’s their choice.
Click to expand...

So you would be ok with a hard border across Scotland. If we stayed in the Eu and they left (which they would have had to under terms of the EU) that would be the outcome. If we left and agreed the customs union with the Eu to “save” Ireland but could not with a new independent Scotland I assume we’d have to have a hard Irish border anyway as Scottish goods would flow through the channel into Northern Ireland?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,891
Sick Boy said:
I don’t know enough about them. And I’m particularly a fan of his, not sure what’s given you the impression I could be.

What makes the likes of RM, Johnson and Patel any different? Do you genuinely believe they wish to make the poor’s lives better through Brexit?

You go on about the EU being setup for the rich, it sounds like you’ll be voting for Corbyn next.
Click to expand...

Our government was not proposing 25% hikes in fuel duty, removal of wealth taxes and other taxation measures targeting middle earners to pay for it
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,892
martcov said:
But we don’t have the problems of the UK or France in Germany. Knife crime for example is rare. Cutting reports on abject poverty are not in the news. The crime rate is low. The refugee crisis has died down. Far right demos are directed at foreigners not the price of fuel or cost of living in germany
Click to expand...
That's absolutely fantastic for Germany. No world war 3 imminent by the sound of it. We're here to discuss the UK, not your favourite place on earth.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,893
Grendel said:
So you would be ok with a hard border across Scotland. If we stayed in the Eu and they left (which they would have had to under terms of the EU) that would be the outcome. If we left and agreed the customs union with the Eu to “save” Ireland but could not with a new independent Scotland I assume we’d have to have a hard Irish border anyway as Scottish goods would flow through the channel into Northern Ireland?
Click to expand...

It’s a completely hypothetical and unrelated scenario that’s diverting away from the issue.

However, if they elected to have a hard border with England then it would be inevitable and their decision to do so.

It’s a consequence of Brexit that wasn’t discussed pre-referendum and no plans made for it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,894
Sick Boy said:
It’s a completely hypothetical and unrelated scenario that’s diverting away from the issue.

However, if they elected to have a hard border with England then it would be inevitable and their decision to do so.

It’s a consequence of Brexit that wasn’t discussed pre-referendum and no plans made for it.
Click to expand...

Which would then by default mean a hard border in Ireland
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,895
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
That's absolutely fantastic for Germany. No world war 3 imminent by the sound of it. We're here to discuss the UK, not your favourite place on earth.
Click to expand...
All is well in Germany. Even the rise in antisemitism and the right wing is good.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,896
Astute said:
All is well in Germany. Even the rise in antisemitism and the right wing is good.
Click to expand...
Yes. But surely it doesn't exist ?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,897
Sick Boy said:
It’s a completely hypothetical and unrelated scenario that’s diverting away from the issue.

However, if they elected to have a hard border with England then it would be inevitable and their decision to do so.

It’s a consequence of Brexit that wasn’t discussed pre-referendum and no plans made for it.
Click to expand...
If the Tories hadn't gone for project fear and been truthful they could have told the electorate the reality of the situation. But only if they understood it themselves.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,898
I also don’t get this smuggling theory in Ireland - why would there be smuggling if we left the Eu
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,899
Grendel said:
No it’s not about many things at all and yes the specifically demanded concessions
Click to expand...

They demanded a withdrawal of the fuel tax. They got a postponement. They got a minimum wage rise and an encouragement for firms to give bonuses, and tax free overtime payments. Mayors from all regions will asked to lay out their problems.

Why don’t our government offer these things without having to go through the shit that France is going through? Because they are giving us sovereignty, which we already have, control of our borders, which we have ( except FOM, where we still have the 3 months rule ), and control of our money, which we already have. How about the government taking care of the problems which Ashdown mentioned instead of try to bring us out of the EU?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,900
Astute said:
But they are. That is why Macron has given so much away.

The problem is he won't give back what he has taken away.
Click to expand...

Agree with point one. Still waiting to hear what rights he has taken away.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,901
Grendel said:
Macrons policies are supporting the rich - do you agree?
Click to expand...

Sounds like Tory policies. Do you agree?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,902
Grendel said:
The French dispute is because Macron is symbolic of EU rule. Worship the rich abd ensure they get richer while squeezing the middle classes to pay for it
Click to expand...

Exactly the Tories austerity policy. The only difference being that the French blame Macron and the right wing Tories and their press barons blame the EU.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,903
martcov said:
Agree with point one. Still waiting to hear what rights he has taken away.
Click to expand...
You have been searching because you know more than before.

So are you saying that no rights have been taken away?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,904
Astute said:
So you are admitting that you are clueless?
Click to expand...

It’s you who refuses to answer the question.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,905
martcov said:
Exactly the Tories austerity policy. The only difference being that the French blame Macron and the right wing Tories and their press barons blame the EU.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that no EU rules and regulations have anything to do with it?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,906
martcov said:
They demanded a withdrawal of the fuel tax. They got a postponement. They got a minimum wage rise and an encouragement for firms to give bonuses, and tax free overtime payments. Mayors from all regions will asked to lay out their problems.

Why don’t our government offer these things without having to go through the shit that France is going through? Because they are giving us sovereignty, which we already have, control of our borders, which we have ( except FOM, where we still have the 3 months rule ), and control of our money, which we already have. How about the government taking care of the problems which Ashdown mentioned instead of try to bring us out of the EU?
Click to expand...

What on Earth are you on about? Macron is reviled across the whole of France. He is seen as a corrupt greedy c**t who has deliberately tried to introduce measures to make the rich in the society richer and squeeze the middle classes

The uk haven’t proposed an increase in fuel duty for years (let alone a 25% one) - the bonus scheme is laughed at as another marcon con.

Macron is dead in the water. He is a greedy arrogant pig despised in the whole of France other than by the greedy filthy rich he toadies up to.

What’s your view on macron?
 
Reactions: Astute

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,907
SIR ERNIE said:
On the point of 'what's good for the country', a good start would be for Parliament to fully honour the result of the referendum and for the Government to honour the Brexit pledges in its own manifesto.
Click to expand...

That’s the contradiction and Liam Fox has also just said on the Andrew Marr show. If it was Parliament that were instructed to deliver Brexit why didn’t Parliament draw the red lines instead of Teresa May and the conservatives? Cross party consensus has always been there and hasn’t changed since the day after the referendum, through a general election and to this day. The Tories are now trying to pass responsibility to Parliament now they’ve fucked it up by not giving the responsibility to Parliament in the first place.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,908
martcov said:
It’s you who refuses to answer the question.
Click to expand...
Is it?

So how many times have I asked you and Tony the sane thing without reply?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,909
Astute said:
You have been searching because you know more than before.

So are you saying that no rights have been taken away?
Click to expand...

I am saying you refuse to tell us what rights are being taken away. I don’t know and have asked you. If you cannot answer I have to conclude that you don’t know either. Some debate this is.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,910
Astute said:
It is about many things. But it is mainly fuel tax rises that gets the headlines because it affects just about everyone. The workers rights removed involves millions less. Increased tax involved a lot so some has been given back. But he took off those who already couldn't afford to live. And with the fuel rises they couldn't afford to get to work. Millions of the jobs are in areas the rich have taken over. But the poorer people had to move away. So the rich don't need a car as they have the good transport links. The poorer have no choice but to drive in.
Click to expand...

What rights have been removed?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,911
Grendel said:
What on Earth are you on about? Macron is reviled across the whole of France. He is seen as a corrupt greedy c**t who has deliberately tried to introduce measures to make the rich in the society richer and squeeze the middle classes

The uk haven’t proposed an increase in fuel duty for years (let alone a 25% one) - the bonus scheme is laughed at as another marcon con.

Macron is dead in the water. He is a greedy arrogant pig despised in the whole of France other than by the greedy filthy rich he toadies up to.

What’s your view on macron?
Click to expand...
Macron only got in because it was either him or extreme right wing. If there was another vote now the extreme right would do much better. It isn't because the French want the extreme right in. They just detest Macron and what he has done.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,912
Grendel said:
There won’t be any violence and misery - why would there be
Click to expand...

It’s never really gone away for starters.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,913
martcov said:
What rights have been removed?
Click to expand...
Last time I am asking or I will just ignore your rants.

Are you saying that no rights have been taken away?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,914
Grendel said:
What on Earth are you on about? Macron is reviled across the whole of France. He is seen as a corrupt greedy c**t who has deliberately tried to introduce measures to make the rich in the society richer and squeeze the middle classes

The uk haven’t proposed an increase in fuel duty for years (let alone a 25% one) - the bonus scheme is laughed at as another marcon con.

Macron is dead in the water. He is a greedy arrogant pig despised in the whole of France other than by the greedy filthy rich he toadies up to.

What’s your view on macron?
Click to expand...

The UN just published a report about how Britain has become an economically divided country where the filthy rich toadies are getting richer at the expense of constantly growing numbers depending on food banks and living on the streets. You may have missed this as you are too busy showing concern for the French.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 16, 2018
  • #26,915
martcov said:
I am saying you refuse to tell us what rights are being taken away. I don’t know and have asked you. If you cannot answer I have to conclude that you don’t know either. Some debate this is.
Click to expand...
You don't debate. You just ruin this thread with your rants.
 
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