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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,521
Grendel said:
Come on. Racist attitudes in Europe is highly prevalent.

My experience in Germany less so actually but France, Spain, Italy are fell less tolerant societies than ours and their hard right parties get far more support than they would here.

The EU movement to get some of the former Eastern block countries into the EU makes this all a bit silly. Some of these countries are incredibly anti Muslim and anti black to an extent rhat would never be tolerated here.

To suggest the uk is heading to some kind of Pre war Nazi Germany is pretty offensive.

The reality is migrants will be better received in the uk than pretty much any country in Europe I can think off.

Despite the rhetoric politically the uk is a fairly middle ground society - it's certainly not a society that would tolerate and actively elect the facist right as many in Europe do.
Click to expand...

No-one is suggesting that it will get that far. But....we have always had scumbags. They were just below the surface and are now coming out. The Eastern Europeans are probably more racist than we are - when foreigners turn up to live in their countries. They do not have many foreigners. E.g. Estonia has a few Aserbaijanies ( if that is how you spell it ) and plenty of Russians, who were put there by Breschnew to be a problem if Estonia wanted independance ( which they now have ). Black and brown coloured people are not known... They are seen as a threat as are muslims.... It seems to be that the countries with least muslims and coloured people tend to be the most racist. Inside Germany, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, which is sparsley populated and has the lowest percentage of immigrants, is the area with the highest vote for the far right anti-immigration party. In Rumania, on the black sea coast around Constanca there are 16 different ethnic groups that live together in relative harmony ( apart from they don't like the gypsies ) - but the coast was always a melting pot for immigrants, so they are not so racist. I can, of course, only speak generally from what I have seen and heard. There are always exceptions.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,522
Grendel said:
Yes the country you are going to sounds like a place of freedom and love for all

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...klet-controversy-italys-fertility-day?0p19G=c
Click to expand...

I have never once said it was perfect or free of racism. The UK can't really make any claims of superiority either, can it? The younger generations in Italy are mostly quite open-minded and liberal. It is the older generations that have ruined their society, a bit like what is happening here
 
Last edited: Oct 31, 2016

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,523
Hilarious. Off to Italy to get away from racism.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,524
It does make me laugh how a few frustrated and bitter losers on here are desperately trying to paint the Brexit vote as a racist one. How pathetic.

The fact is that the vote was an anti-EU vote, pure and simple. The EU has been exposed as a corrupt, undemocratic institution, doomed to certain failure. Brexit will help accelerate the demise of the rotten shambles.

Get over it.
 
Reactions: Astute

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,525
Hahahahaha

According to you the rest of the EU is saying how great Brexit is. That is actually true but all those political parties are openly racist or fascist.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,526
SIR ERNIE said:
Hilarious. Off to Italy to get away from racism.
Click to expand...

Sadly racists, like you, are in every country. It's impossible to get away from them.

For the record we are also leaving to escape the endless cycle of renting, to be better off financially, to have a better quality of life and for the climate.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,527
Ashdown said:
Ah it's that 'The English are racists' line again....................from the Irishman with a grudge !
Click to expand...

I was born in England.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,528
Grendel said:
My experience in Germany less so actually but France, Spain, Italy are fell less tolerant societies than ours and their hard right parties get far more support than they would here.
Click to expand...
Some of the rhetoric that has been coming out of the Tories is not that much different to the bile UKIP and the BNP used to come out with. I actually used to feel proud being from the UK when living in La Lega Nord voting Veneto; this all changed when I came back though and was made even worse during the referendum campaign. The majority of young Italians are a lot more open minded and outlook looking that the older generations though.
Italy is also a country of great polarity though, go to the smaller cities and towns in the central regions and here you will find more tolerant and left wing people. You even get a few communist shrines in the streets.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 31, 2016
  • #2,529
SIR ERNIE said:
The fact is that the vote was an anti-EU vote, pure and simple.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it was just anti-government, an opportunity to give Cameron and Osborne a good kicking. No one who voted Brexit thought they had a hope in hell of winning yet they still made the effort to vote anyway.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,530
No brexit without parliamentary approval.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,531
Liquid Gold said:
No brexit without parliamentary approval.
Click to expand...

That's if it sticks as Supreme Court will rule finally. Either way brexit will happen so whatever will be will be.

The politicians really don't like the public. Shame really
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,532
So if it is down to MPs to vote, why make a public referendum?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,533
Nick said:
So if it is down to MPs to vote, why make a public referendum?
Click to expand...

It's a question many have asked time and again!

The referendum was always just an indicator, anyway. Again, bungled, when there can be such a small margin for or against really.

Should have had a series of questions if an indicator, rather than a simplistic yes/no.
 
Reactions: martcov
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,534
Nick said:
So if it is down to MPs to vote, why make a public referendum?
Click to expand...

That's the point Isn't it. Mps approve the referendum and then don't like the result so then they can take it away. It's a nonsense that the Supreme Court will clear up and even if they don't then MPs will vote for brexit anyway because of all the areas that voted for it. It's just a process for sore losers but they won't win. Hold your nerve as they were never going down without a fight. How dare the peasants vote the leave and win?
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,535
Kingokings204 said:
That's the point Isn't it. Mps approve the referendum and then don't like the result so then they can take it away. It's a nonsense that the Supreme Court will clear up and even if they don't then MPs will vote for brexit anyway because of all the areas that voted for it. It's just a process for sore losers but they won't win. Hold your nerve as they were never going down without a fight. How dare the peasants vote the leave and win?
Click to expand...

What is nonsense? Britain is a Parliamentary Democracy- that means parliament is sovereign. The decision just confirmed what we all knew ( or should have known).

The referendum was, and could only be, advisory.

It's British democracy- get over it.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,536
Nick said:
So if it is down to MPs to vote, why make a public referendum?
Click to expand...

Maybe Cameron thought that remain would win and nobody would notice the small print, that is was only advisory and parliament is sovereign anyway.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,537
martcov said:
Maybe Cameron thought that remain would win and nobody would notice the small print, that is was only advisory and parliament is sovereign anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah his point was why have it then? Brexit will happen anyway so Im happy either way tbh.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,538
martcov said:
What is nonsense? Britain is a Parliamentary Democracy- that means parliament is sovereign. The decision just confirmed what we all knew ( or should have known).

The referendum was, and could only be, advisory.

It's British democracy- get over it.
Click to expand...

I'm over it. Brexit will happen regardless so yes very happy still if it's a process then fine by me.
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,539
The ruling is about not bypassing Parliament and not using the Royal Charter. It isn't about reversing the decision to leave. The JR was brought by a group of people, at least one of which voted leave (so not sore losers). Just proves what a brainless halfwit Cameron was. Mind you, May is making a pigs of it.
 
Reactions: Astute and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,540
Kingokings204 said:
Yeah his point was why have it then? Brexit will happen anyway so Im happy either way tbh.
Click to expand...

I think you better look at internal Tory politics to find the reason. It has little to do with the 'peasants' as you put it.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,541
Monners said:
The ruling is about not bypassing Parliament and not using the Royal Charter. It isn't about reversing the decision to leave. The JR was brought by a group of people, at least one of which voted leave (so not sore losers). Just proves what a brainless halfwit Cameron was. Mind you, May is making a pigs of it.
Click to expand...

Not really sure if I believe that one of them voted to leave. No proof whatsoever to that.

I wonder how remain voters would feel if leave people tried everything in their power to stop the result? That's how it feels. Guessing it wouldn't be ok then. Either way brexit will happen and I'm ok with that.

The whole thing is a shame to me. Why have the referendum?
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,542
martcov said:
I think you better look at internal Tory politics to find the reason. It has little to do with the 'peasants' as you put it.
Click to expand...

No I meant that all leave voters in the main were from poorer less privaleged backgrounds to those who voted remain with obviously London voting to remain. There is a clear divide between rich and poor and I don't like that.
 
Reactions: Astute

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,543
I voted leave and think I still would....

....but I think that the terms & conditions of brexit need to be drafted, debated, & determined by a larger & more democratic group than just the current mandate-less government full of chancers, opportunists & lickspittles
 
Reactions: Astute, Liquid Gold, martcov and 2 others

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,544
I've believed all along that there are too many powerful institutions who want to stay in the EU who will therefore prevent a full EU exit.
The Brexit most people voted for won't happen.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,545
SIR ERNIE said:
I've believed all along that there are too many powerful institutions who want to stay in the EU who will therefore prevent a full EU exit.
The Brexit most people voted for won't happen.
Click to expand...

Say that happens and then what?
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,546
SIR ERNIE said:
I've believed all along that there are too many powerful institutions who want to stay in the EU who will therefore prevent a full EU exit.
The Brexit most people voted for won't happen.
Click to expand...

Yep....always suspected the powers that be would preserve the status quo...even if we actually get to trigger article 50, we would then be up against the EU diktat.....and they have no problem over-riding democratic process from sovereign states.....just ask the French, Dutch & Greeks for example...

The EU is like the hotel California.......you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave..
 
Reactions: Astute
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,547
So can we assume all MPs would still vote for brexit?

I just re read the government leaflet I had through and states "the government will implement what you decide"

David Cameron resignation speech "the result of the British people must be implemented and I'm not the man to do it"

Remainers very clear "leaving means leaving the single market" yet we are told to keep in it cause terms weren't decided in the ballot.

A group of politician judges who clearly it benefits to stay within the EU for numerous reasons have voted that MPs should now vote.

You couldn't make this up. Brexit will happen what worries me is on what terms.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,548
Kingokings204 said:
That's the point Isn't it. Mps approve the referendum and then don't like the result so then they can take it away. It's a nonsense that the Supreme Court will clear up and even if they don't then MPs will vote for brexit anyway because of all the areas that voted for it. It's just a process for sore losers but they won't win. Hold your nerve as they were never going down without a fight. How dare the peasants vote the leave and win?
Click to expand...
I agree with your sentiment but the immediate rise in the Pound suggests that some of the Bremainers hold high hopes they will wriggle out of it all. It wouldn't surprise me either but if they do God help this country and it's future democracy. Personally I wouldn't bother voting for anything again, it would show that it is pointless and that those with the most vested interest will always get their way eventually. Fuck London and its yaa hoo wet blanket selfish shits and fuck Tony Blair and his witch who made a fortune out of all the human rights bollocks that came with the EU !
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,549
Kingokings204 said:
So can we assume all MPs would still vote for brexit?

I just re read the government leaflet I had through and states "the government will implement what you decide"

David Cameron resignation speech "the result of the British people must be implemented and I'm not the man to do it"

Remainers very clear "leaving means leaving the single market" yet we are told to keep in it cause terms weren't decided in the ballot.

A group of politician judges who clearly it benefits to stay within the EU for numerous reasons have voted that MPs should now vote.

You couldn't make this up. Brexit will happen what worries me is on what terms.
Click to expand...

It was clear that Britain is a parliamentary democracy. If the government- Tory government- promised you that they would implement it, then what is your problem? They have the parliamentary majority- they just vote for article 50 and that is it. If they don't, take it up with them.

The high court is right in confirming that parliament is sovereign - regardless of whether they vote for or against triggering article 50.

I don't see your problem.

I see that May has a problem though.
 
Reactions: Liquid Gold and Monners
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,550
Kingokings204 said:
Not really sure if I believe that one of them voted to leave. No proof whatsoever to that.

I wonder how remain voters would feel if leave people tried everything in their power to stop the result? That's how it feels. Guessing it wouldn't be ok then. Either way brexit will happen and I'm ok with that.

The whole thing is a shame to me. Why have the referendum?
Click to expand...
The chap stated that he voted leave when interviewed by the BBC this morning after the high Court judgement. I have no reason to disbelieve him.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,551
Monners said:
I have no reason to disbelieve him.
Click to expand...

...apart from the fact to do so allows the paranoia and persecution complex to continue...
 
Reactions: Monners

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,552
martcov said:
It was clear that Britain is a parliamentary democracy. If the government- Tory government- promised you that they would implement it, then what is your problem? They have the parliamentary majority- they just vote for article 50 and that is it. If they don't, take it up with them.

The high court is right in confirming that parliament is sovereign - regardless of whether they vote for or against triggering article 50.

I don't see your problem.

I see that May has a problem though.
Click to expand...

There won't be a problem. Most labour MP's outside of London will vote to leave if they value their careers.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,553
Monners said:
The chap stated that he voted leave when interviewed by the BBC this morning after the high Court judgement. I have no reason to disbelieve him.
Click to expand...

I do for obvious reasons.

The reality is the European Parliament is about as democratic as a government headed up by Stalin. It's autocratic and dicatorial.

The government should force it through or threaten an immediate election - labour MP's will just keel over.

It's telling the only one jumping up and down is the silly grinning man from the Liberals - the most un-principaled party in Britain who'd jump into bed with anyone and anything of it improved their ratings.
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,554
I don't really follow your rant grendel. I had merely stated that one of the people who brought the case stated, when asked by the BBC after the case, that he voted leave.
Again, the case was about not using ine Royal Charter and having a Parliamentary debate. No more, no less

Will be interesting to see how the Govt appeal to the Supreme Court goes. And if the MP's can actually have a civilised debate with the best interests of the country at the forefront (I have my doubts, but we shall see).
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 3, 2016
  • #2,555
Why is this even in court? The process was known in advance and it always involved parliament having the final say. If this isn't acceptable why wasn't it addressed prior to the vote?
 
Reactions: martcov
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